you guys just broke vel koz

lolipopevelynn··108 votes·9,983 views

Velkoz > R - Lifeform Disintegration Ray > Passive: 3 Hit proccing Deconstruction on Champions become Researched for the next 7s. >** R Deals True Damage vs Researched units instead of Magic.** > R No longer applies stacks of Organic Deconstruction > Damage: 500 / 700 / 900 + 60% AP >>> 550 / 800 / 1050 + 100% AP > Cooldown: 130 / 110 / 90 >>> 120 / 100 / 80

this means he is going to do 1050+100% AP TRUE DAMAGE to targets. absolutely disgusting.

why do this? even darius doesnt do that much dmg with his ult, and he is fucking melee that requires 5 stacks rather than 3. Didnt the community say to not touch this damn champion?

192 Comments

YumaS2Astral88 votes

On other hand, it requires him to stack his passive and his basic abilities have been gutted to compensate for this broken ult.

In other words, Vel'Koz has been changed from a balanced champion to a problematic champion that will always be either broken or useless.

Abyssphere32 votes

{quoted}

On other hand, it requires him to stack his passive and his basic abilities have been gutted to compensate for this broken ult.

In other words, Vel'Koz has been changed from a balanced champion to a problematic champion that will always be either broken or useless.

His basic abilities had their ratios hit beucase they put a ratio on his passive. It doesn't have that much to do with his ult.

Kuroi861 votes

Not to mention Vel has always been a bit more about base damage than scaling. Why MPen builds worked on him almost as well as AP builds.

Side note, I'm so ready to start melting I mean "researching" people in game. >:D

Michael Sykes1 votes

I already picked vel'koz everytime I saw more than two tanks (and not a bad midlane opponent) in the enemy team. It is an awesome idea to have a mage that can shred tanks. The true damage is not as bad since he already did almost true damage to carries with his mpen-build :D

Serika Zero2 votes

Brand Malzahar are right now good anti tank mages, even Anivia with item 3151

A Miss Fortune10 votes

MissFortune Welcome to the R-bot club.

bill846 votes

Galio We are all happy here!

DarkSunSovereign3 votes

Syndra I'm in too now!

InHaruhiWeTrust56 votes

they said "we will only be tweaking his W to provide things" - riot then proceeded to do nothing to his W

Skelenth12 votes

They actually lowered the damage

Gated D Latch2 votes

{quoted}

They actually lowered the damage

lowered the damage because it doesn't proc his passive anymore, but if you proc the passive before using ult, then it is much more rewarding since it does all the true damage to shred everyone. Therefore, they technically did not lower the damage

Skelenth9 votes

I was speaking of the W. The W still procs the passive, but since the passive itself deals more damage now, it's just a compensation nerf.

Hyrum Graff4 votes

{quoted}

they said "we will only be tweaking his W to provide think" - riot then proceeded to do nothing to his W

They said they didn't want him mindlessly clearing waves. So they lowered the W damage and made Q refund mana on kill, so vel is encouraged to last hit with it and try to harass his opponent with the split. This is a good thing.

WarlockLaw2 votes

I disagree. If an immobile mage can't easily clear waves then they won't get played, just look at the Viktor change a few patches back. Preventing immobile mages from 'mindlessly' waveclearing actually hurts their laning phase too much that they need either extremely reliable damage or insanely high damage. Interactive laning phases aren't always a good thing

MeatThrottle34 votes

Vel Koz is fucking fine the way he is. Millions of people have said so. And yet Riot continues to push this with their arrogant "We know better than you" attitude.

blujadajhdja18 votes

I'm genuinely curious as to why anyone would think that Vel'Koz needs changing. I've never seen any whining about him nor have I seen many buffs or nerfs coming his way. Maybe someone can convince me otherwise, but to me, it seems like they're just tweaking him for absolutely no reason at all.

Ariel the Cruel47 votes

Vel was held as the epitome of balance. That's why you never heard anyone cry for buffs or nerfs. The change is because he had no niche. His only out-put was magic damage, with minimal CC and negligible true damage, So he ended up competing with every magic damage champion for competitive value. Meaning he was either the strongest damage option, or he wasn't picked.

I'm at least going to brag that I saw the out-come of this change. Mages (as a class) never had a good option for dealing with tanks. Thanks to a truck-load (Assumed, haven't seen the numbers) of true damage, Vel can now fill that role. Meaning there is a reason to pick him, even if he isn't the #1 source for magic damage. For reference, Brand had near the same problem. Notice that they're lining him up as the AoE damage option (He just jumped from 2 to 4 AoE abilities). Similiarly, Xerath, Ziggs, and Lux all competed pretty closely for the Siege position. Lux managed to stand out thanks to her utility (And notice she gets used a lot more because of it), while Ziggs and Xerath are effectively identical. It looks like they intend to reinforce Ziggs as a turret seiger (Satchel charge) and Xerath as a champion seiger (Barrage charges).

None of these class updates are specifically about any champion being strong or weak. It is about giving them all a unique reason to be played. Whether the changes succeed/fail to reinforce what the community likes about them is a different matter, or succeed/fail to break them is a different discussion.

Verdade3 votes

I have 63% win rate with Vel, average KDA of 4.5, getting pretty big in every game (As a support!) and i never saw someone ranting about my champion being unbalanced ;) This is true balance.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Vel was held as the epitome of balance. That's why you never heard anyone cry for buffs or nerfs.

All it takes is a bit of research, and you too can be balanced like the squid! Join the Vel'Koz academy and get your balance today! Just 3 easy payments of your face mostly insubstantial value.

Secretlolz5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5u5pHK8w,comment-id=000b00000001,timestamp=2016-04-20T05:08:46.336+0000)

Vel was held as the epitome of balance. That's why you never heard anyone cry for buffs or nerfs. The change is because he had no niche. His only out-put was magic damage, with minimal CC and negligible true damage, So he ended up competing with every magic damage champion for competitive value. Meaning he was either the strongest damage option, or he wasn't picked.

I'm at least going to brag that I saw the out-come of this change. Mages (as a class) never had a good option for dealing with tanks. Thanks to a truck-load (Assumed, haven't seen the numbers) of true damage, Vel can now fill that role. Meaning there is a reason to pick him, even if he isn't the #1 source for magic damage. For reference, Brand had near the same problem. Notice that they're lining him up as the AoE damage option (He just jumped from 2 to 4 AoE abilities). Similiarly, Xerath, Ziggs, and Lux all competed pretty closely for the Siege position. Lux managed to stand out thanks to her utility (And notice she gets used a lot more because of it), while Ziggs and Xerath are effectively identical. It looks like they intend to reinforce Ziggs as a turret seiger (Satchel charge) and Xerath as a champion seiger (Barrage charges).

None of these class updates are specifically about any champion being strong or weak. It is about giving them all a unique reason to be played. Whether the changes succeed/fail to reinforce what the community likes about them is a different matter, or succeed/fail to break them is a different discussion.

Finally. Riot fucks up often but this time they didn't, someone had to point it out tho.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

So from every midlaner i play i never dealt so much as with vel koz. He is so strong and underplayed but still counterable. So i don't really understand why they change him.

Ariel the Cruel5 votes

Because the change wasn't to address balance. It addressed purpose. Vel was only good for 1 thing - which roughly 1/3 of the champion roster can also do. So he was either the best, or there was no competitive reason to pick him. Now he has a reason to be played, even if he isn't the best source of magic damage.

I withold judgement on the power of these changes until I've actually used him.

TheOvermind9 votes

I'm actually very Happy with the changes to Vel'koz, It was What I always wanted for him: A Passive that is not useless post level 18, and A tank shredding Ultimat to match the thematics of the champion.

BUT I must say number wise he might be a little bit overtuned. Since you are adding AP scaling on his Passive, you might wanna lower the base values a little bit to compensate. Also the Base dmg and Ratio buffs to his ult as well as the CD reduction seem a little excessive. Look at this and you have a perfect champion

Thanks Riot for those great roster updates :)

Verdade2 votes

Both W and E were nerfed because of the passive scaling, his R doesn't proc passive anymore. Vel's total damage is nerfed when he uses MRpen build against <80 MR targets, while having slightly increased damage in every other situation. Also his skill cap is slightly higher than before because he NEEDS to proc his passive now. He had like 10% of his total damage as true damage, now it will be like 30-40%, but that's fine because he's skillshot combo based.

And i quite agree, his ultimate CD might be problematic as it was decreased AND they push him more towards CDR build.

Shifthappens8 votes

If a mage land all his spells on you, you should die.

Skelenth3 votes

That's what he did before. Now he obliterates you

Oelyk3 votes

Im pretty sure obliterated = dead. Henceforth there is no change :O

Aids cuz League8 votes

I think its balanced, sure he didn't need the damage but its still okay when you realize that it only lasts for 7seconds, his Q is easy to dodge, as well as his E, so if you get researched IT IS YOUR fault. You either picked the wrong champion, or you just haven't learned to dodge attacks, his abilities are ALL skill shots. I am also sure his ult will either be straight line only or itll turn more slowly than before.

lolipopevelynn19 votes

{quoted}

I think its balanced, sure he didn't need the damage but its still okay when you realize that it only lasts for 7seconds, his Q is easy to dodge, as well as his E, so if you get researched IT IS YOUR fault. You either picked the wrong champion, or you just haven't learned to dodge attacks, his abilities are ALL skill shots. I am also sure his ult will either be straight line only or itll turn more slowly than before.

7 seconds is a literal eternity in this game bro lol. kench marks dont even last that long.

the rest of your argument is 200% flawed. 95% of champions in this game have skill shots, including graves. it doesnt mean they are not broken or its "easy to dodge". you cant dodge skills 100% of the time, no one can. not even scripts can dodge things 100% of the time. and it only takes 1 Q or E to land for vel to get off his full rotation.

Wolfeur5 votes

Vel'Koz likes bushes as much as Garen for that.

TheSingularity6 votes

Your reaction was my initial reaction to mah fave mid laner/mage jungle, that he would be broken af, then I had a long, hard think about it. Yes, there is potential for an absolute F*CKTONNE of true damage from our tentacle pal, however it is not free true damage that some other champs can dish out just cos they can, looking at you yi, pre-nerf fiora, irelia and pre-nerf vayne.

Currently (before these changes take place) vel'koz get's on relatively fine in today's meta, with enough true damage to bust open hexdrinkers/wittle down tanks and the utility to be somewhat useful when behind. His base damages are high enough to make building allot of magic pen viable in the absence of good ap ratios, and he has the self peel/ build path to kite for his team; rylais, liandries, void staff, sorc shoes ect. The koz has also been in a very good spot balance wise for a very long time (which is more than I can say for allot of champions in this game, who're either OP, UP or broken AF). That is, he has his good match ups (twisted fate/melee ap), bad match ups(akali, azir(IMO)) and those in between (zed, LB, ahri). But doesn't completely pub stomp a team 1V5 off of 1 kill and is actually pretty fun to play against.

As for their changes. The scaling true damage. I don't really see as an issue here. As they have reduced his ap ratios on his w and e by a decent amount and his ult no longer gives free procs for secures when they're out of q range. And all of his ratios were pretty average to begin with. The result here will be players either opting for a full ap build, relying on landing their full combo and killing people with the ult. Or playing it standard with magic pen, leaving the "disgusting" true damage on his ult/passive much to be desired. Maintaining his rightful spot as a utility mage. As for the w/e changes, this will weaken the laneing phase a lil of a vel'koz who can't proc his passive on the enemy lander. As he won't be able to clear waves for eternity, and for free while pressuring the enemy/having enough mana for self peel at the same time.

The ult changes. As first, same reaction as you. And tbh I'm still a lil edgy about 7 seconds. However that buys a lil time to get into a better position/ for ult to come off CD. And since there is now SO MUCH riding on landing your entire combo on everyone b4 ulting, that kinda balances itself out in the difficulty aspect. Risk=mess up combo, your team dies. Reward= LCS BIG PLAYZ!

And finally. I've seen some say that they've made him overloaded/difficult to balance with these changes. I beg to differ. They have directly taken damage out of his base kit (w and e) and transferred this damage to the ult and passive. If it turns out he is in fact OP AF, they can simply do this. Lets say that the issue foreseen is in fact the true damage. They could take say 10-15% (I'm just picking numbers that sound right-ish) of scaling/damage from his passive and/or ult, and transfer them into either base/scaling magic damage on his w and/or e.

Just my verdict. Overall I'm pretty happy with how he's turned out. Just gotta wait and see how his true damage out put seems when he's released. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Verdade3 votes

They just shifted his stat focus from MRP to CDR and increased his skill requirements by forcing more combo-oriented play. Overall it might be a damage buff, but at cost of increased difficulty. I think it'll turn out pretty well.

kile1476 votes

The way I built him I was doing true damage (or better) anyways. Now he won't benefit as much from building mpen.

Hyrum Graff2 votes

{quoted}

The way I built him I was doing true damage (or better) anyways. Now he won't benefit as much from building mpen.

So much this. full mpen page (sans yellows) + sorc + guise + void = true damage to targets with 75 or less mr.

D3m37r13 votes

What worries me is that people playing against him will no longer be able to see the indicator on Q

NavyDivea8 votes

Like every other skill shot in the game? Why should his telegraph its range and not the rest?

D3m37r17 votes

Which other skillshot in the game splits into 2

Ñapoleoni3 votes

I played Velkoz on PBE, and when I was playing him, I was led to believe that his new kit mechanics are for being an anti tank mage.

On live servers, if Velkoz lands an E on you, and you are a squishy, you're pretty much dead. The true damage on PBE is more of like a "die more" mechanic on squishy targets. (Think DFG). However, the true damage on his ult allows him to be a considerable menace to tanks, and if Riot is going for an anti tank mage, I believe they did a great job with Velkoz.

Now one thing that deffinately needs to be toned down is his base damage on ultimate. When playing Velkoz support, I basically got the same results as playing Velkoz mid.

Mech0p2 votes

how about we all bitch like always before a champ is even on the pbe to test him and see what is really up

LiveYiOrDieHard1 votes

{quoted}

how about we all bitch like always before a champ is even on the pbe to test him and see what is really up

Every time people say this and every time the champion turns out just as retarded as everybody predicted and Riot is like LOL OH WELL and doesn't change crap for another 6 months while said champion ruins games or sits in an unplayable state. Just admit Riot has a track history of screwing up and then pretending it never happened.

AlwaysByMySide3 votes

{quoted}

Every time people say this and every time the champion turns out just as retarded as everybody predicted and Riot is like LOL OH WELL and doesn't change crap for another 6 months while said champion ruins games or sits in an unplayable state. Just admit Riot has a track history of screwing up and then pretending it never happened.

People thought Illaoi would be OP on release, and guess what? She was garbage, and still is garbage.

People thought Mordekaiser and Skarner would be garbage on release, and guess what? Both were ridiculously overpowered.

People thought Mundo would be turned into hot garbage with the pre-season changes due to Mortal Reminder, and guess what? He was busted as fuck.

The boards are terrible at predicting the future of the game based on what's been leaked.

Only Play Darius2 votes

Why would they remove the deconstruction from his ult? It just makes his passive inconsistent.

Velkoz to me is that guy who channels the devastating laser beam from the back like and burns through everything in his way, not the guy who catches someone out with his spells then annihilates them with obscene amounts of true damage.

Alüe4 votes

Prepare for the "oh no he's to strong! nerfs vel'koz to being obsolete "we will have to come back to him at another time to make his kit healthy, it was a good example though!"

Verdade2 votes

Clarification needed - and this might be a big thing - does Maw's bubble do anything against true damage?

THEJJSLAY4 votes

is magic damage true damage?

Mistress Madoka2 votes

Implying this is worse than Garen's

Tsen2 votes

Best Mage: Garen

Dormidon2 votes

After juggernaut patch they do not listen community. Remember hotifx buffs for Darius? Or PBE buffs on Skarner because people thought he's way too weak. I believe they won't listen anyone. (They make comptetitive game for pros not for us)

Icestar11862 votes

He roots himself and it's a channeled DOT. He still has counterplay.

The Deckowner1 votes

They said they were making velkoz the ap tank killer. but 1k true dmg can kill carries not tanks. tanks dont give a shit about 1k hp

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