If your champion can get 700+ms at will

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5tszqyVd,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-14T02:29:43.750+0000)

Sustain in the top lane? Hmmmmm. (if he’s even a top laner anymore)

Yet somehow vlad having sustain is a problem? Also. He doesn’t have aoe sustain. His w nor his e heal him. I guess his ult does. But he has to hit multiple people with a short range spell you should all know is coming.

Untargetability. You also have access to that with stopwatch. Something most top laners also build so, I fail to see that issue as well.

Bro list all the things vlad has on his kit. you will not find even one of the champions you've listed having even close to the same combination as him. I don't care about sustain, anyone can have sustain, it's when that sustain is granted on a point and click offensive ability that you run into problems. it's like a shield that does dmg, Diana balance history for that one.

vlad's R btw. aoe sustain. and it's a dmg amp so his sustain on his Q is larger. and it does aoe dmg lol. his W is his fizz tool. and frankly his E could be anything and the champion would still work.

also go back to my first post about effects being gated behind items. this isn't a stopwatch thread, or an item thread, and you don't get to turn it into that because it's fundamentally an incorrect way to approach champion discussion. does anything you've listed become untargettable all on its own without having to buy anything from the store? no? does it need a gunblade to unlock point and click sustain?

if you have to point to ultimates that can do the thing then that's your dilemma right there. cho can point and click sustain but he has to press R. camille can become untargettable but she has to press R...doesn't even last as long as vlad's lol. none have an aoe sustain option unless it's gated by needing to kill something or alternatively it does no dmg as an ability. vlad is a very special champion lol, you can't just be running in here comparing him with these squares.

oh he also has no resource.

That isn't turning an immobile champ into a mobile champ though. Movement Speed is one of the weakest forms of Mobility, and you have to rely on items to obtain high enough MS for it to actually make a considerable difference. Even then, mobile champions can also build these items (you named 2) which further widens the gap between immobile and mobile champions.

Movement speed has its uses but it doesn't threaten Mobile champions until it reaches speeds like Hecarim and Rammus can reach, even then hard CC counters MS where Blinks, Jumps/Dashes, and teleports can be used to negate or weaken hard CC.

Riot's own classification of mobility is blinks and dashes, along with any type of mobility that functions like the two listed. Speed boosts like Garen Q do not count as mobility. It is a movement enhancer (something they should add as a classification). Other examples are Rammus Q (although the amount does counter immobility, it is not up predominantly as it is gated by cooldown), Phage passive, Fiora Passive, Kayn E, Yorick E, Trundle W, Twitch Q, etc.

Also, there are plenty of range champs that have more than 30% slows. And some of those champs also happen to have movement enhancers, which counteracts the lack of mobility when paired with slows. However, being slowed counters movement enhancers if you are the one being slowed while using the enhancer.

Its a complicated sentence, so in short:** If you possess both an enhancer and a slow, you can shore up your lack of mobility. Having an enhancer and being slowed does not counter/shore up your mobility problem.** Darius, despite having the ability of getting mobility enhances (Ghost, Phage), is still susceptible to being kited, especially if he gets slowed constantly and/or hard.

[{quoted}](name=Hi im 12,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5tszqyVd,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-14T01:23:47.514+0000)

wait so hecarim is immobile? lmao

No, he has both a dash AND a flash in his kit, Garen only has a single MS increase.

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5tszqyVd,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-14T01:08:35.377+0000)

No adc is kiting someone who is running at them at 700ms. You’re delusional dude.

By themselves? Generally speaking this is the case, yes, but ADCs are not meant to be capable of dealing with juggernauts solo in most cases.

Ashe can, thats about it.

[{quoted}](name=Hi im 12,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5tszqyVd,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-14T01:10:53.005+0000)

please tell me how you're gonna kite a garen that has righteous glory as an adc lmao

You don’t. This guy is one of those “juggernauts are all perfect champions” people.

Are you trolling? Like its not hard. You just do it he isn't fast like all those items do is get them close but that's it. Like garen still isn't fast enough to catch adcs like go and play the fucking game.

Also love that you list garen one of the only juggernauts with a ms buff showing you are just cherry picking.

Heres my thing on that: Why would he build it? He gains nothing from the mana in the item, and would be better off running ghost + deadmans.