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The most unfair and unfun zed change for his opponents and handholding for the zed player.

StevoTheCreator··38 votes·5,658 views
10/18 PBE Update

EDIT* let me be absolutely clear this has nothing to do with losing his w bonus AD. They can always balance him later. This has to do with making his opponents feel bad about their endgame fantasy since your TEAMATE CAN BUILD DAMAGE AND AFFECT HOW QUICKLY YOU DIE TO ZED

"The STRONGEST victim of Zed's Death Mark (R) PERMANENTLY grants him a % of their Attack Damage"

this is kinda messed up.....

breaks alot of unstated design rules that the game follows.

Namely it makes zeds opponents feel bad about building ANY ad in the future but zed never feels bad about his ult target?

its holistically hypocritical to think that players wont feel like shit about how much ad they are giving zed AND FORCING THEM TO CHANGE THEIR ENDGAME FANTASY and then at the same damn time give zed the freeby of his strongest target instead of his most recent target which affects him TEMPORARILY

This is one of the worst cases of player handholding i have ever seen favoring the player.

Please explain this some rioter. This seems like such a bad direction for a moderately healthy and fair assassin to play against. Does it only grant a percent of what they currently have? What is the justification?

You rob Zed of the chance to feel great about ulting the adc or enemy assassin or bruiser and you make his opponents feel like shit for building AD

its a double whammy.

93 Comments

Eedat28 votes

Completely ignores:

Zed's Living Shadow (W) no longer has a passive that grants him bonus Attack Damage

Convientiety leaves out the information that doesnt match his massive bias? Oh I'm sure you left that part out by "accident". Suuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrreeee. Now he has to work for the bonus AD instead of it getting handed to him for free

invisiblecat13 votes

Yes, but permanent, and especially on someone like Jhin who gets 600 AD every game is too broken

ModWulf Helhammer7 votes

His W gave permanent AD too

StevoTheCreator4 votes

{quoted}

His W gave permanent AD too

IT DOESNT HAVE TO DO WITH THE STATS ON ZED IT HAS TO DO WITH THE GAMEPLAY OF IT PLZZZZ STOP THINKING ABOUT JUST HIS BALANCE. it has to do with his fun for the player and his opponents

ModWulf Helhammer4 votes

What? What the hell are you even saying?

StevoTheCreator2 votes

{quoted}

What? What the hell are you even saying?

If your adc builds blood thirster instaed of botkr the zed now hits you harder..... sooo fun.

Cait could build a bf sword in base while zed is ganking and give him ad.... sooo fun for zeds opponents.

This change is one of the worst ive seen in the game and ive been theory craftng since season 2 and in low diamond highest rank.

If u dont understand just take my word on it. Im helping the game

ModWulf Helhammer4 votes

I seriously doubt that's how it works.

StevoTheCreator2 votes

{quoted}

I seriously doubt that's how it works.

It is. Either way its still much much worse than not being thier at all.

Your bias is coloring your thoughts on zed. Im coming from a very nuetral position... please understand how aweful this is. Its PERMANENT STRONGEST TARGET.

Those are the words i have a huge problem with....they are right thier in the description

ModWulf Helhammer2 votes

I don't play Zed. What bias exactly?

And, no, you don't know exactly how it works.

Not to mention, we don't have any numbers on this

StevoTheCreator2 votes

{quoted}

I don't play Zed. What bias exactly?

And, no, you don't know exactly how it works.

Not to mention, we don't have any numbers on this

dude i never claimed to know exactly hwo it works but i know what permanent and strongest means

TwinkiePro2 votes

You are completely biased. So far, Zed will gain about 40 AD per 800 on an enemy champion from the information given so far. That's 5%. That is actually the same amount of AD he would generally get from His W. This would also require him to kill a full crit jhin.

All you read was "permanent and strongest" and assumed for the worst. Gather evidence first.

Edit: just want to add in it is 15% of the opponents AD. so a full crit jhin will give zed closer to 120 AD. But how many champs even get more than 300?

Wolfess2 votes

{quoted}

You are completely biased. So far, Zed will gain about 40 AD per 800 on an enemy champion from the information given so far. That's 5%. That is actually the same amount of AD he would generally get from His W. This would also require him to kill a full crit jhin.

All you read was "permanent and strongest" and assumed for the worst. Gather evidence first.

pretty much this.

First gotta find out of he's keeping his W passive AND getting this new FREE AD scaling which would be a buff that's completely not needed

OR

if they're changing his W passive into this new mechanic which means that he's no longer just getting a chunk of free AD and now actually has to do something meaningful in order to get it.

TwinkiePro2 votes

He is not keeping his W passive. It's all tacked onto his ult.

Wolfess1 votes

{quoted}

He is not keeping his W passive. It's all tacked onto his ult.

good, now we just have to see what happens when it hits pbe and/or live to see if this was actually intuitively well done or if we should cringe at more zed favoritism.

TwinkiePro2 votes

You have no idea how to be patient nor how to research and gather evidence.

It's a good change because he no longer gets 25% free AD just for putting points into W and now has to kill someone with his R mark active on them.

Oh, now its okay? now that we have provided enough evidence? And who cares about original description, most people haven't seen it in action yet. You were literally making assumptions.

Also, it's 5% AD per rank, up to 15%. That will net him the same amount of AD, he just now has to work for it.

And you have no idea how to socially converse with people. You are part of the reason people complain about this community. What gives you the idea to call people "FUCKING DOOFUS"? Let alone use the word doofus? Don't call us children when you can't even participate in a mature discussion and lack any meaningful addition to it.

Only Play Darius12 votes

So this is what a Zed hater looks like when he is confronted with hard logic

Spicy Rice2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5o7BfiWk,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-10-18T23:01:46.761+0000)

So this is what the average boards user looks like when he is confronted with hard logic

Ftfy

Big Lincoln21 votes

that doesn't make this any less terrible of an idea

Veigar got his ult changed because scaling with enemy stats was a terrible thing in League. Now Zed is going to steal enemy AD permanently?

Not that I don't mind a legit hard counter to this %%%% Jhin, but this is definitely ridiculous.

Astôlfo3 votes

Stealing implies they lose it (a la Trundle ult style). He doesn't.

Zed's % AD is only a gain for him based off their AD, and it doesn't stack.

Qiy4na1 votes

truuuu that Jhin counter [slayer-jinx-wink] thats good

God Raijin2 votes

"Veigar got his ult changed because scaling with enemy stats was a terrible thing in League. " Now they just need to get rid of that %bullshit fun-damage onVayne

WarlockLaw2 votes

Why complain about Vayne, When Fiora deals far more % max health true damage to her targets, without having to hit them several times to even proc it. Not to mention that Fiora's % max health true damage scales directly with her ad whereas Vayne can only indirectly boost hers.

God Raijin2 votes

I mean Fiora is bs too. or rather all max% hp true damage is bullshit, The fact that you deal more damage the more hp they build just completely undermines the point of hp, and armor, cuz its true damage and max %hp....Like the concept of max%true damage completely rejects the point of tank items.

WarlockLaw1 votes

I was ok with it when it was just Vayne, but now that Fiora has it too I'm not so sure. At the very least I think one of them should lose it I'm exchange for flat true damage

LordGeovanni1 votes

they both have both

Ulquiorra9951 votes

And Zed does it arguably at much higher scale than Veigar.

-If there was a heavy AP champion on the enemy team, Veigar could punish them and them alone. While Zed can feed his ult off one heavy AD champion and use that AD on everyone.

-Veigar's exploitation of enemy stats was based on a long cool down. Zed exploits them on every auto and spell.

Note that this isn't a rant on the power level of new Zed. He might be broken or useless as far as we without PBE access know. This is about a mechanic being removed from X for being toxic and unfair then amped up to 11 and reinstated on Y champion.

Mister Modesty1 votes

Suuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrreeee. Now he has to work for the bonus AD instead of it getting handed to him for free

You mean his enemies work for it? Because that's what it looks like to me. Let the enemy build AD and you don't need to do squat.

LordGeovanni1 votes

that was a bs mechanic in the first place

ValyrianBlade7 votes

I really hope the "victim of his death mark" means someone who DIED to it. NOT just someone who was damaged by it. The latter would be disgusting, the former could be okay.

Also, I hope "permanent" of "strongest" target is calculated at time the target dies, not updated as they build AD. So Zed only increases his AD gain by killing the now stronger target.

Yes, this makes Zed a huge force against Jhin. Nearly every other ADC can just focus on crit/AS/crit damage/lifesteal instead of flat AD to still get stronger while not donating free stats to Zed. May introduce some counterplay.

Also hope the percentage is moderate enough so it doesn't outscale his W. I don't think it's appropriate, but it looks like when Riot does a class update they buff nearly every champion they touch. Most of these assassins don't need buffs...

Ralanr8 votes

It's actually kinda poetic since Jhin is a rival to Zed.

Spicy Rice1 votes

Did I hear lore resurgence?

MunchCrunchLunch4 votes

they basically making him old veigar? but against ad?

Stephenizgod3 votes

And now everyone will feel what I feel when I face Trundle as a tank.

Cipse1 votes

Hey, at least it isn't permanent.

k wìx3 votes

It's smart. It incentivizes Zed to target high AD Squishies.

Also, the living shadow nerf is going to hit him HARD.

He'll only be terrifying if he's EARNED it.

Astôlfo3 votes

oh for the love of god not this shit again

Only Play Darius3 votes

I like this mechanic. It will force ADC's to go back to building crit and attack speed instead of the cancerous AD + flat pen builds. And I doubt it will be much more than the free AD he used to get, which he didn't have to work for.

VasilisGreen1 votes

It will be far less unless the rank 3 ult gives some stupid number like a 30% and like a 20 flat.

Ulriah3 votes

It's 5 + 5% of the victim's AD... that's only like 30 AD on average. Considering that he completely lost his W passive, that this bonus is temporary, and that the target needs to die to the Death Mark, this is more of a nerf than a buff.

The only one getting really negatively affect by this is Jhin, while other ADC's that rely more on attack speed (hello Vayne) are being positively affected.

You're crying over nothing tbh.

StevoTheCreator1 votes

{quoted}

It's 5 + 5% of the victim's AD... that's only like 30 AD on average. Considering that he completely lost his W passive, that this bonus is temporary, and that the target needs to die to the Death Mark, this is more of a nerf than a buff.

The only one getting really negatively affect by this is Jhin, while other ADC's that rely more on attack speed (hello Vayne) are being positively affected.

You're crying over nothing tbh.

the value doesnt matter because its still bad gameplay and its probably not 5 +5% thats a rank one r

Ulriah1 votes

The value does matter, there's a difference between a mere 20 bonus AD and a 100 bonus AD.

It is bad gameplay, but not because teams will start bitching at their ADC's for doing what they are supposed to do, only a psychopath would do that. It's because this makes Zed a even more hit or miss champion. If he doesn't get ahead in lane (which will be harder now since he loses the bonus AD from W), then he will have an even harder time killing the enemy AD, especially since they're adding new support items to counter assassins.

We won't know the values for sure until this goes live, but 5 + 5% is extremely low, even for level 1 R. At that point in the game ADC's don't even have 100 AD, which would mean 10 bonus AD for Zed. That's a mere longsword.

VasilisGreen3 votes

To get a 30 AD from that 5+5%, your target needs to have 500 AD... that's not that common unless you are against a jhin. His old W was way better.

Ulriah1 votes

I thought Jhin could reach much more, I wasn't so sure about what the average AD is now late game and I was being generous, because even 30 bonus AD isn't that much anyway.

VasilisGreen1 votes

that's what i said, if you are not a Jhin, you won't have anything near 500. More like 300 with 109 of them being base AD and Zed's ult will probs capitalize on Bonus AD, which means, build on hit and AS/Crit and zed will get shit for christmass.

Astôlfo2 votes

Getting 900+ in lategame with full crit build (ER+IE+RFC+Shiv/Dancer+Whisper evo+boots) is fairly easy, given you have a few drags, and additional buffs (red/elder/baron) help too.

WolfBV3 votes

When Zed kills someone, he gains a % of their current AD. The next time he kills someone, if the next person killed has higher AD than you had, he loses the AD he gained from you and gains a percentage of the AD of his newest kill. I don't see anything bad about this :')

AcidTheWarlock2 votes

I do believe that so far Zed seems nerfed

FantasySniper2 votes

It should at least be dependent on bonus AD.

That way Zed can't get free AD from picking off mages.

{quoted}

This seems like such a bad direction for a moderately healthy and fair assassin to play against.

Good one, man, the sarcasm is so subtle it almost isn't even there.

Hige1 votes

if the mage has 100 AD (which they don't, ever) zed earns a total of 10 AD...

considering that he only keeps his highest reward and they don't accumulate, I'd say it's pretty fair.

FantasySniper2 votes

Actually, mages (that aren't Orianna) usually have anywhere from 50 to 100 AD, which can increase with the Natural Talent mastery.

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