Isn't Knight's Vow the definition of 'hidden power' that Riot's trying to remove?

WoonStruck·Nov 4, 2016·52 votes·3,290 views

Not only that, its uninteractive.

Its just more stats to lop onto your ADC, essentially with selfish benefits alongside it.

50 Comments

Malicious MetalNov 4, 201623 votes

It'll either be a must buy on every tank or be too UP to be relevant.

I feel it's going to be a doomed item

WoonStruckNov 4, 20165 votes

Pretty much my feelings on it.

Of course, Riot might be pushing to make champs that aren't viable in a healthy state top or jungle in bot lane again...while ADCs are pushed to be viable everywhere else in a not-so-healthy state.

BhagswagNov 4, 201612 votes

I swear if they nerf Braum because of it...

RalanrNov 4, 201611 votes

Sion and Sejuani will welcome him to the "got nerfed when it was the item's fault" club.

Jungle Lux GodNov 4, 20162 votes

What item got Sion nerfed? He was nerfed so much because he was too strong in top lane, not because he was too strong in the jungle.

RalanrNov 4, 20164 votes

He was still considered an abuser of cinderhulk.

JerulEonNov 5, 20161 votes

Smite toplane was actually good with Sion to build the enchantment because that's how strong it was.

AstôlfoNov 4, 20162 votes

Don't forget Shyvana and Yi and the other Devourer junglers.

RalanrNov 4, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Don't forget Shyvana and Yi and the other Devourer Junglers.

Sorry, I had no sympathy for devourer. Sorry for those guys, but I'm actually glad I don't see Yi anymore.

AstôlfoNov 4, 20161 votes

That's what I meant. Devourer was cancer, but it got other champions nerfed and kept them nerfed even after Devourer itself disappeared.

RalanrNov 4, 20163 votes

Was Yi actually nerfed due to devourer? I only remember him being nerfed because of tank Yi.

PermabannedGarenNov 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Sorry, I had no sympathy for devourer. Sorry for those guys, but I'm actually glad I don't see Yi anymore.

And I'm glad I don't see Sejuani and Sion anymore. They deserved to be nerfed for their items. =)

RalanrNov 4, 20162 votes

Opinions are opinions and I'm glad we can agree to share but not bash ours.

Pierce The VealNov 5, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Sorry, I had no sympathy for devourer. Sorry for those guys, but I'm actually glad I don't see Yi anymore.

Nice to see you have sympathy for cinderhulk, but not devourer.

Being biased is acceptable these days.

(Not that I liked either of the two jungle metas).

RalanrNov 5, 20161 votes

I'm aware of my bias and I know it's wrong. But I'm not perfect.

Pierce The VealNov 5, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I'm aware of my bias and I know it's wrong. But I'm not perfect.

But hey at least you admitted it. Nearly everyone else just argues on and on and refuses to accept their bias.

I'll be the first to step up and say I hated both devourer and cinderhulk.

WoonStruckNov 5, 20161 votes

I hated both, but I hate the state of tanks/fighters right now even more.

I'd take both back in a heartbeat.

My only bias is for ADCs to be knocked down a peg so they aren't more powerful late game than season 1 carries, who were considered far too powerful late game even by Riot...while they're currently 1.5-2+ times as powerful early-mid game compared to then.

Pierce The VealNov 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I hated both, but I hate the state of tanks/fighters right now even more.

I'd take both back in a heartbeat.

My only bias is for ADCs to be knocked down a peg so they aren't more powerful late game than season 1 carries, who were considered far too powerful late game even by Riot...while they're currently 1.5-2+ times as powerful early-mid game compared to then.

Yeah I'd honestly rather have release Xin Zhao and Jax rather than the current state of ADCs. Probably those two are the only ones who'd have a chance vs current day ADCs.

IceKingChernobogNov 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I swear if they nerf Braum because of it...

and alistar, and leona

LordGeovanniNov 5, 20161 votes

Sadly taric too and maybe leona

Hinagiku33Nov 4, 20162 votes

I too remember Runic Bulwark :)

Wolfram OxfordNov 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5mul6Tc0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-04T08:42:16.555+0000)

It'll either be a must buy on every tank or be too UP to be relevant.

I feel it's going to be a doomed item

It probably will be like that one item that provided lifesteal everyone forgot about. Bet this ADC hater also complained about that item. "Oh no Zeke's Herald will destroy this game, nerf ADCs"

RavenMagusNov 4, 20164 votes

Providing extra lifesteal is vastly different from providing damage reduction.

I'm pretty sure even you can guess which one is more powerful.

Pierce The VealNov 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Providing extra lifesteal is vastly different from providing damage reduction.

I'm pretty sure even you can guess which one is more powerful.

Imagine if you have both.

On a single item.

EROTIC RAID BOSSNov 5, 20161 votes

people don't seem to feel this way about the offensive version for mage supports, whatever that thing is called that gives crit

whats the dif?

WoonStruckNov 5, 20161 votes

One provides more reliability to a damage class (ADCs) without them having to provide their own commitment, but can still be mitigated via Randuins, Tabi, armor, etc. Not only that, but its effect has a very limited and visible timeframe.

One provides free survivability to a class that's supposed to be easy to kill (ADCs) as a trade-off for their damage...and it **cannot be mitigated and never fades. **

MunchCrunchLunchNov 4, 20165 votes

who knows what the hell they want to do anymore. assassins are going to be skirmishers and mages and adcs are the new assassins. vayne can do some 1800 damage with 1 Q late game.

TyrekGoldenspearNov 4, 20163 votes

Well it's an effective solution for the damage masteries.

Also what's so bad about uninteractive? Must everything be interactive?

WoonStruckNov 4, 20165 votes

Riot's got a problem with it, apparently.

They constantly exclaim that they're on a crusade against the uninteractive.

My point is that its merely contradictory to many of their previous statements.

Also, its an effective solution for the wrong targets. Its going to be used on squishies most likely. The people that need defense the least from a game health perspective are the glass-cannon champions.

Warlord ZudaneNov 4, 20161 votes

I don't think it'll be squishies, it seems stupid to use a health item that redirects damage from an ally onto a squishy champion. The only squishy it would really benefit would be an ADC and why would you want your ADC to take damage aimed at your support when your support is the tank? Suddenly your support charges in, gets taken down and the ADC is taking additional damage because of this thing.

I love the idea on Alistar, especially since his heal is being taken away from an active ability. I mean, he'll heal and regen, take some of your damage while support and it sets up that bot lane duo is no longer just bot lane duo but become a full game pair. I mean, something like that then you have support that can help the ADC even if halfway across a teamfight, even though the support will die a bit faster, the goal is the ADC gets the kill first. Sounds better than the item 3050

Critmaster GarenNov 4, 20168 votes

{quoted}

Well it's an effective solution for the damage masteries.

only for the one who gets the binding, which is the same guy who benefits most from the damage masteries in the first place.

SherogarthNov 5, 20163 votes

Bond of stone is the same, on top of being simply boring and almost mandatory.

OurLestradeNov 4, 20161 votes

I like the item and even I have to agree it's pretty stupid.

Sona PingNov 4, 20161 votes

I don't think so. It's not really anymore 'hidden' than health regen, item 3110 , or really armor in general.

Isn't the 'hidden power' that Riot thinks is a problem and wants removed more along the lines of "We are in a close fight and he is hitting me with an autoattack like any of the others.... OH! Nevermind. That one does 7% missing health bonus damage due to no action on either of our parts."?

LiofaNov 4, 20161 votes

Remove? Riot does what it always does, they say one thing one day then do the exact opposite the next. If skirmisher saber wasn't enough of a hint at how much they love "hidden power" then I don't know what to tell you.

PrimaquariusNov 4, 20161 votes

All I know is we don't have SoA anymore for personal reasons

CrettNov 4, 20161 votes

Hold the phone and see the bigger picture here. Maokai Mordekaiser + Knight's Vow + Dual Bond Of Stone + Dual Relic Shield bot lane

SpoofghoulNov 4, 20161 votes

maybe but only if they can both use knights vow i guess

along with item 3146 item 3075

i mean why not heal when your ally is attacked right

CrettNov 5, 20161 votes

They can't both use it. Ideally Maokai buys it and heals off Morde's damage while taking his damage. (they both share some damage and have DR thanks to BoS) Morde can heal himself and give them both massive damage reduction via his ult

This buys Morde tons of time to abuse his shield and heal them both with Knight's Vow and his W

AirKingNeoNov 4, 20161 votes

There will probably be a giant indicator of it. Like the passive applied on enemies with PD.

Akali is SO HOTNov 5, 20161 votes

Can someone gimme the rundown of this item/mastery or a link. I've really only been paying attention to the Akali changes on PBE

HazyCloud7Nov 5, 20161 votes

400 Health, 100% Base Health Regen, 20 Armor UNIQUE Active: Designate an allied champion as your Partner. (90 seconds cooldown) UNIQUE Passive: If your Partner is nearby, gain +40 additional Armor and +15% Movement Speed towards them. UNIQUE Passive: If your Partner is nearby, heal for 12% of the damage your Partner deals to champions and redirect 12% of the damage your partner takes from champions to you as true damage (healing and damage redirection are reduced by 50% if you are ranged).

Akali is SO HOTNov 5, 20162 votes

lol wtf is that bs

Irelia BotNov 5, 20162 votes

Riot showing that the game is about marksmen now and nothign else matters unless it can buff marksmen in some way.

HazyCloud7Nov 5, 20161 votes

Looks like it was designed by an adc main

HazyCloud7Nov 5, 20161 votes

Not really a fan of the idea that an adc can grant survivability/sustain to their support quite frankly. Healing for 12% of the damage they deal is really absurd.

Pierce The VealNov 5, 20161 votes

But it's hidden power given to the ADC, which is the definition of balanced.

LordGeovanniNov 5, 20161 votes

Along with Zed and rengar getting ad on their reworks but thats okay its not like you are gonna be hunting for unique kills you will just get a kill when ever you can

Count ZubatNov 5, 20161 votes

I'm just wondering if it will make duo drain tank bot lane viable. But otherwise, it looks pretty shitty, it's gonna become new locket which every support buys.

inplaneNov 5, 20161 votes

Riot has been contradicting themselves ever since the start of this Season. They claim they don't agree with an idea, turns around, and then creates something that's basically the proposed idea for the better or the worse.