So does Shen need buffs?

FantasySniper·Feb 4, 2016·5 votes·832 views

Although it appears that learning curve seems to be a huge factor for his current success rate, is anyone noticing a particular spot he needs work? (I want to pick him up, too.)

So far, Riot has already stated that they will improve his taunt registration, since changes to his model and such have made it unreliable. Besides for that, the AP scalings are kind of disturbing. I've barely seen any build AP items on him, so it's as if they block off part of his power in that area because they know people aren't going to go for it.

27 Comments

DrCabesFeb 4, 20163 votes

For me at least he plays great, I've had a good mix of good games and bad games and the only thing odd is the hitbox on his taunt, which is being addressed. As for ap ratios, he would be op if they were actually good. Imagine a rylai's on high ratio Shen.

ShahamutFeb 4, 20161 votes

You can still build Rylia's on him... it just doesnt do much since it would only proc on his E which already taunts and has a long cooldown.

Losing the ranged poke has really hurt Shen's AP itemization since he also needs to be tanky. Before, Rylia's was a good option because it gave him some better chase potential with his Q, and poke with Liandry's, now those items are far less effective.

There just aren't any really good AP tank items for shen atm. :/

Ive played Shen with the "rage/gunblade" combo into tank. Its pretty fun if you want to try something a little heavier on the offense side of things. :P

FantasySniperFeb 4, 20161 votes

Gunblade actually sounds like a really good idea on him.

ShahamutFeb 4, 20161 votes

The current build I am running looks like this:

item 3068 item 3065 item 1001 of choice (usually treads or tabi) item 3146 item 3115 item 3512

Good amounts of defense/MR, extra 1000 hp, and the extra attack speed and AP get you some good extra dmg on your Q. The 30% cdr makes the Q cooldown almost non existent, and after a while as long as you hit 3 times, the Q is free. You can split push incredibly fast with the attack speed Q's/Sunfire/ZZ'rot. The gunblade also gives you a MUCH needed ranged slow as well as sustain.

Still running tanky runes and masteries.

Thoughts?

QuephaFeb 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The current build I am running looks like this:

of choice (usually treads or tabi)

Good amounts of defense/MR, extra 1000 hp, and the extra attack speed and AP get you some good extra dmg on your Q. The 30% cdr makes the Q cooldown almost non existent, and after a while as long as you hit 3 times, the Q is free. You can split push incredibly fast with the attack speed Q's/Sunfire/ZZ'rot. The gunblade also gives you a MUCH needed ranged slow as well as sustain.

Still running tanky runes and masteries.

Thoughts?

I don't see Titanic Hydra. You'd be crazy to not rush Titanic Hydra on him.

ShahamutFeb 5, 20162 votes

The thing is, Shen doesn't scale the same way with Health as he did before. I really don't think you need Titanic Hydra if you get sunfire, especially with the buffs its getting vs minions.

QuephaFeb 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The thing is, Shen doesn't scale the same way with Health as he did before. I really don't think you need Titanic Hydra if you get sunfire, especially with the buffs its getting vs minions.

Shen has a higher health ratio on his E than he used to have on his passive. His new passive has a massive health ratio and when he can trigger that multiple times in a fight it gives him huge boosts to his durability. He scales at least as well with health as he used to.

Sunfire Cape would need to deal triple or more damage against minions to be as good at pushing as Titanic Hydra, and it would still suffer against champions. Not to mention that TItanic Hydra's active allows you to get off two of your Q procs near instantly with the auto reset which is hugely important for being a threat in a fight and keeping your energy levels up. Plus it synergizes with a Sunfire Cape and any hp item that you can still build afterwards if you choose because Shen still needs to get tanky.

If you don't think you should rush Titanic Hydra on Shen, you are crazy.

ShahamutFeb 5, 20161 votes

Ive done both. Ive had one, the other, and both, and there isn't much of a difference in push speed.

Titanic loses only a small number of points in that it doesn't affect your tower taking. (not saying sunfire does, Im saying getting something else with Attack speed does)

You don't need Titanic to be a relevant threat in team fights. Without any items, Shen has % max health magic damage, that when the sword goes through someone grants like 21% max health in magic damage.

Either way, my concern as shen is pushing towers. I have my taunt and ult for teamfights as well as the new dodge and %HP dmg. I would rather have wit's end over titanic for taking towers faster.

Now to clarify, I do NOT think Titanic is a bad item or that it is a bad item on Shen. Its a fine item. and the HP tank with Titanic is a solid build. Im exploring other viable options.

QuephaFeb 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Either way, my concern as shen is pushing towers. I have my taunt and ult for teamfights as well as the new dodge and %HP dmg. I would rather have wit's end over titanic for taking towers faster.

Wit's End is a 40% boost to attack speed, Titanic Hydra is a 50 bonus to AD. Shen's base AD scales from 60-118 as he levels. 50 AD is more than a 40% boost to Shen's autos until he hits 120 AD, literally more than his base AD at level 18.

Without even factoring in the auto reset which also lets you get a free hit in every 20 seconds, Titanic Hydra is better at dealing damage to towers than Wit's End.

ShahamutFeb 5, 20162 votes

Good point, but you are talking about only 2 AD at level 18. Still, with the auto reset, you are correct. Stand alone, Titanic is better than wits end for damaging towers.

Titanic used to be the perfect item on Shen when he had his Ki-Strike. Better clear, more AD, more health for stronger Ki-Strikes.

I am just not sure that it is the best anymore. Certainly still good, but I don't feel its a required item anymore.

QuephaFeb 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Good point, but you are talking about only 2 AD at level 18. Still, with the auto reset, you are correct. Stand alone, Titanic is better than wits end for damaging towers.

Titanic used to be the perfect item on Shen when he had his Ki-Strike. Better clear, more AD, more health for stronger Ki-Strikes.

I am just not sure that it is the best anymore. Certainly still good, but I don't feel its a required item anymore.

Titanic is BETTER on Shen than it was before by a wide margin. His durability scales harder with health than it used to and the auto reset helps him apply his Q's faster on targets without giving up as much ground. His Q accounts for most of his damage and a huge chunk of his energy refund so getting that second proc for pretty much no extra effort is massive.

FantasySniperFeb 5, 20162 votes

Nashor's Tooth is a risky pick-up, even with it's massive benefits. I would go with Warmog's or Wit's End if I could.

ShahamutFeb 5, 20162 votes

The only reason I didn't go for Wits End is because I wanted the CDR. It makes your Q up constantly at an effective no cost so long as you are hitting stuff with it.

FantasySniperFeb 5, 20162 votes

I would pick it up if my team comp allowed me to. It's a luxury item that won't make your late-game all that strong if you can still get poked and peeled.

0neTrueGodHandFeb 4, 20161 votes

His Q empowered auto attacks actually count as spells. They proc rylais, ludens, spellvamp, etc. Not sure if it's a bug, but that's how it behaves right now.

ShahamutFeb 5, 20161 votes

I will need to look into this, because usually, on hit effects do not proc on spell effects or spell vamp.

FantasySniperFeb 5, 20161 votes

Your name makes me believe you.

FantasySniperFeb 4, 20162 votes

His ratio's are actually relatively high. Just a Rylai's will net you 4.5 or 6% more max health damage and 130 shield on his ult.

KhaZix BotFeb 4, 20162 votes

No way to tell yet. We don't want to jump the gun and end up with Tahm Kench II because he got buffed every patch when he was already good.

FantasySniperFeb 4, 20162 votes

Exactly, but Tahm's problem was being a massive troll. Shen doesn't have that issue, so it seems as if it's more than a learning curve thing.

QuephaFeb 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Besides for that, the AP scalings are kind of disturbing.

Why do people keep complaining about this? He's a tank with a ton of %hp damage on Q and an hp ratio on his E. He shouldn't get much benefit from AP and even if he did he shouldn't want to build it anyways. The ratio on Q is just a nice bonus when he builds items that happen to have AP on them.

FantasySniperFeb 4, 20162 votes

His AP scalings are actually relatively high despite the fact that it's so difficult to build any on him.

It's like increasing the AP ratio on Caitlyn's trap and then decreasing her base AD. It would be impossible to build AP on her in the first place, so why bother?

CalabokFeb 5, 20162 votes

He's fine

Cowgirl EdFeb 4, 20161 votes

dont pick him up he needs a rework

AnomanderFeb 4, 20161 votes

I like the new shen a lot better then the old one. Although I play him jungle. Going cinder into titanic and then straight tank.

And A Real HieroFeb 4, 20161 votes

Been spamming Shen, I can still win games. Though I notice a major difference, the pure melee plummets his damage output hard. He feels a lot less tanky even going full tank. Though can win late game 1v1 scenarios if people actually stand and fight him, but what I hate the most about the rework is how people can just walk away from him. Where is my E + Q sword of justice that last hits that coward mobility champ at flashing and dashing all over the screen.

I also enjoy him a lot more in the jungle than top.

AMYS GRAVEFeb 4, 20161 votes

I've been using Shen support a bunch and he feels satisfying to play but i can see why he's weak. A red popped on the boards yesterday to tell us that the hitbox on his taunt is bugged so expect that to be fixed as well as some potential buffs (i hope).