I want you guys to take an objective look at this and tell me what you think

LilxPaprika··1 votes·1,415 views

http://i.imgur.com/7SO6ghCh.jpg

Objective: aim to make top lane cinderhulk/smite less desirable. Solutions: Create 1800 gold jungle items Reasoning: if theres no real incentive to keep the jungle item into late game Wouldn't you rather have a real summoner instead of smite as a top laner

Some small adjustments have been made such that the jungle items reflect their new price points. So now you have a pretty cheap item for late game right. well solution is simple make it such that you can sell the jungle item for its full gold value such that you don't lose any gold to put towards your replacement item of choice.

You'll be encouraged to hold onto it however. -What if I sell the jungle item then I won't get bonus gold from jungle camps? That's a decision youll have to make as to when you want to sell the jungle it. Hence why it will still be best to keep it and focus on building your other items until you have nothing left to build but switch out your jungle item for a better item.

For the vast majority of games which end around say the 35-40 minute mark junglers will not see themselves selling their jungle items for entire course of the match.

Why this shouldn't hurt junglers. A win win for early and late game. The main reason we have jungle items is to assist with the early game. and provide an affordable general purpose item to get you going. Once late game hits its usage/role window of efficacy has run out. For example you don't see junglers trying to poach enemy jungle at the 50 minute mark. At that point its mostly about team coordinations etc. Such that its no longer really needed. by then youll likely have another item to apply slow like you would for chilling smite. and youll have tankyness you'd otherwise get from skirmisher or the mana you have trailblazer for.

I like to think of jungle items as a bigger version of doran items of sorts.

8 Comments

JustMyBassCannon3 votes

{quoted}

Objective: aimed to find a way to rid desire for top lane smite

Nope.avi

I honestly like seeing Smite used outside of the jungle. It's a change, and it's not a bad change either.

LilxPaprika1 votes

{quoted}

Nope.avi

I honestly like seeing Smite used outside of the jungle. It's a change, and it's not a bad change either.

I'm actually neutral with regard to top smite. There are some frustrating scenarios in that with skirmisher they have an exhaust sort to speak every 60 seconds or less which can be annoying. That's the only gripe I can point to for now.

People might still get it if they think they can make such good use of skirmisher smite plus counter jingling that they can win the game before late game. Worst comes to worst if they do go smite top they'll just have a slitghty less strong itemcome late game . Or one less summoner if they choose to sell it.

But what about the fact that this has a second offering which is that by selling and getting refunded for the full value of the jungle item. It opens up build options for jugglers.

I think I might have drafted this with a subconscious ulterior motive of creating "disposable" jungle items to gain access to all the other items.

Passionlip1 votes

... but i like the toplane smite thing. ;_;

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

As a top main, I really don't mind smite popping up there. Adds a few more options to the lane, the same lane which has had flash/tele as the go-to spell combo for.......how long now?

As for your reasoning for eliminating jungle items late-game viability I understand where you're coming from but I want to point out that since these items are the very things changing the smite spell currently forcing someone to replace the jungle item in question forces them give up the added smite effect. The entire reasoning behind that change in the first place was to allow smite to be used in other situations, like teamfights, and finally let the jungler contribute with the spell he was required to grab.

As such, I believe if your end-goal is to get rid of top-lane smite you should focus more on diverting the item's effects back into jungle specific interactions, like devourer. It will accomplish the same thing without hurting the jungling role in its entirety.

tl;dr I like the idea of disconnecting the jungle gold interaction from the smite change, but I'm not so keen on the intentional ceiling for late-game.

LilxPaprika1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir ArmaMalum,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5eovZTAH,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-04-20T02:27:20.774+0000)

question forces them give up the added smite effect. The entire reasoning behind that change in the first place was to allow smite to be used in other situations, like teamfights, and finally let the jungler contribute with the spell he was required to grab.

Hence the removal of any penalty for selling the jungle item The replacement item will offer something equally viable Come mid to late game you could swap trailblzaer magus w/ morelloNomicon /or chilling smite magus with twin shadows. Or wota instead of skirmisher Devourer w/ wits end/zephyr/or botrk And cinderhulk with of course sunfirecape or the slew of other tanky items available.

As a jungler I had multiple times where I couldnt quite replicate a build I liked to use when laning with the character. I think its an added bonus having the standard to sell your jungle item down the road.

I know a lot of melee character are often itching to sell warrior for either GB or blackcleavef.

Just other day I wanted to try a build like this on Diana for example: item 3152 item 3089 item 3157 item 3115 item 3111 item 3027 Which you couldn't quite replicate with magus. Come late game skirmisher smite doesn't live up to wota especially if you need it for objectives.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

{quoted}

question forces them give up the added smite effect. The entire reasoning behind that change in the first place was to allow smite to be used in other situations, like teamfights, and finally let the jungler contribute with the spell he was required to grab.

Hence the removal of any penalty for selling the jungle item The replacement item will offer something equally viable as a replacement Come mid to late game you could swap trailblzaer magus w/ morelloNomicon /or chilling smite magus with twin shadows. Or wota instead of skirmisher Devourer w/ wits end/zephyr/or botrk And cinderhulk with of course sunfirecapsunfirecap or the slew of other tanky items available.

But at the end of the day it still takes the smite alteration out of the late game. You're welcome to disagree of course, but I like the strategy behind deciding to use a smite on a champion now instead of a drag/baron later, as well as the additional options/viability it gives to champs like Shyvana even in the late game. I like the option of being able to smite a champion, and the powerful effects it has are all that more apparent the later into the game you go.

So, how about this? We use the old Feral Flare interaction and introduce an additional tier of the items that does allow for late-game viability but you have to have killed a certain number of monsters beforehand? That forces a top-lane smite user to either deal with a low-power item through out mid-late game while he tries to get the same monster kill count as a late-game jungler or sell the item as per your logic, the latter being more likely. All the while allowing the actual jungler to continue as is.

LilxPaprika1 votes

Didn't complete magus The gem would have like 25/30 ap and 10% CDR

And the full item would have like 60 ap and 20% CDR.

LilxPaprika1 votes

You could say: So what if the jungler cannot choose from every item late game, (they have a pretty good offering to choose from). " And on the flip side you could just as easily say: "So what if junglers can't use smite as a form of utily aside from jungle.. " Either way so long as both teams are effected in the same fashion it cancels out.

In the second case however the lost of smite's utility outside of the jungle could likely be replaced by the utility found in the replacement item of choice. At the end of the day it has that going for it.

Gives junglers the same inventory of items to choose from late game. Since the jungle items while doing a good job of replacing their regular counterpart items, they don't quite have a jungle version for every item. and having duplicates of everything for jungling is well excessive

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