It might just be me, but i'd rather see consistent average power than probabilistic average power.

deadlychuck·May 19, 2017·5 votes·280 views

I'd rather see an ability which is targeted, but deals 100 damage, than an ability which has a 25% chance of landing, but deals 400 damage.

Both abilities are "equally powerful", but where as you can plan ahead and play around the damage of one, you can't play around a probabilistic outcome which has yet to be determined.

Basically, what i'm saying is stop with the fucking mobility and skillshots and making things more powerful to give them equal "power". Make them more consistent and weaker.

16 Comments

Starcraft243verMay 19, 20175 votes

You might want to switch to another game since noone here share your opinion.

FooDangMay 19, 20173 votes

It's just you bro. Skillshotz FTW.

RenownedWheat42May 19, 20172 votes

Mobility has been a thing for fuckin forever ( Kassadin was one of the original champs) and skillshots add more expression than everything being point-and-click.

If you want no one to have differing skills or movement capabilities, it comes out to everything being the same. Not to mention, some characters aren't meant to have consistent, weak damage.

Please rethink what you're saying. It makes no sense from any perspective.

deadlychuckMay 19, 20171 votes

Well I bet it makes no sense with how you're thinking i'm saying this.

I don't mind that champions have mobility, or that skill shots exist. These are fine. What i'm getting sick of is the constant removal of targeted abilities and them being replaced with skillshots, which indirectly ends up buffing mobility and creeping power as skills trade consistency for potential.

Yes, Taric's stun can now hit multiple targets. Though it's range was nerfed (ignoring it's W interaction), and it become possible for it to do nothing, disproportionately so for champions with mobility. It traded a consistent stun (even if variable damage), for an skillshot which now has to be balanced around probability.

The point is, that riot can add all the mobility and skillshots they want, but they shouldn't increase the ratio of skillshots to targeted spells, because it ends up changing the value of mobility, in a sense post hoc, increasing the kit budget of the champions with it, making them over budget. Though very rarely do riot nerf the mobility aspect of skills, so the only other solutions would be to nerf the numbers on the champions to offset the increase in the value of their mobility, which might cause other problems to the champion, as being mobile means nothing if you're output isn't sufficient to do anything. So the only other option ends up being to increase the average kit budget.

hotarseMay 19, 20171 votes

Amen brother. But skillshots aren't getting 4:1 damage to targeted. Just look at Kat Q. My last game, Kat's Q alone dealt enough damage to chunk out half of my ADC's health. ONE Q alone. ANd she had stupid mobility too.

deadlychuckMay 19, 20171 votes

I just used that number to give an example of what I'm talking about.

The exact numbers are vague and hard to precisely define. How do you determine the probability of landing a skill?

Really this is probably why marksmen have been given such high consistent damage. The inconsistency of the damage from skillshots means that you have abilities which are buffed because they aren't powerful enough with respect to their chance to hit, but then because they now have more damage people use them more, get better at them, effectively increasing the abilities' average power. Well they just gave the ability more damage, it'd look bad if they just reverted the damage buff because it's too powerful now when you're landing it more consistently. (after all look how hard it is for them to revert any of their mistakes) So to compensate for the now higher average power of the ability (due to player accuracy increases), targeted things like auto attacks need to be increased in power to raise their average consistent power to be ~ equal to that of the probabilistic power of the now buffed abilities.

Scary DoorMay 19, 20173 votes

Just look at Kat Q. My last game, Kat's Q alone dealt enough damage to chunk out half of my ADC's health. ONE Q

Just stop with the Hyperbole.

ouncing Blades Cooldown: 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 Range: 625 Katarina throws a dagger, dealing 75 / 105 / 135 / 165 / 195 (+30% of ability power) magic damage to her target and 2 nearby enemies. Then, the dagger ricochets onto the ground behind her initial target.

So let's assume that it's late game and Kat has rank 5 Q with at least 600 Ability Power... the damage done would be 195 + 30% of 600 or 180... so 195+180=375. That's PRE-MITIGATION, so ONE Kat Q isn't even going to do 300 damage to an ADC late game.

I'm sorry, but people will read your bullshit post and believe it. Let's at least try to keep the facts straight around here, okay?

hotarseMay 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Scary Door,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5X0jfbNA,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-05-19T14:56:15.447+0000)

Just stop with the Hyperbole.
Cooldown: 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 Range: 625 Katarina throws a dagger, dealing 75 / 105 / 135 / 165 / 195 (+30% of ability power) magic damage to her target and 2 nearby enemies. Then, the dagger ricochets onto the ground behind her initial target.

So let's assume that it's late game and Kat has rank 5 Q with at least 600 Ability Power... the damage done would be 195 + 30% of 600 or 180... so 195+180=375. That's PRE-MITIGATION, so ONE Kat Q isn't even going to do 300 damage to an ADC late game.

I'm sorry, but people will read your bullshit post and believe it. Let's at least try to keep the facts straight around here, okay?

You're forgetting masteries though. Also, items don't just give AP, they can apply dots and add more damage from items alone. There is a mastery which amplifies damage to a champ which has been hit previously. There a mastery which adds damage to a skill based on max hp if they've just come out of the brush. 50% maybe not, but I saw Xayah get chunked out for at least 40% of her HP with ONE Q. I guarandamtee it.

Scary DoorMay 19, 20171 votes

I'm not forgetting masteries. Thunderlords won't apply, because it's "ONE Q" as you said. Neither would Fervor. DFT, on the other hand, would add a small bit of damage as would Liandry's, but that item is rarely built on Kat and would have a fairly inconsequential impact on a squishy champ's health pool with just "ONE Q".

The only way you could have seen a Xayah take 50% of her health from "ONE Q" is if she was more than 5 levels behind Kat and even then it's pretty hard to believe.

I realize I'm getting hung up on just one point you made in a post, but goddam, that's a pretty big exaggeration to say the least.

ZT XperimentorMay 19, 20171 votes

Suspicious isn't it? Riot removes targeted attacks while making more mobile champions.

deadlychuckMay 19, 20171 votes

I wouldn't call it suspicious, i'd just call it dumb.

ZT XperimentorMay 19, 20171 votes

Unless it's willfully ignorant.

ShadòwMay 19, 20171 votes

so a game only consisting out of Annie s?

no thanks

deadlychuckMay 19, 20171 votes

No, more like a game consisting of Vayne in which she isn't forced to be so insanely high damage, to compensate for other champions which have highly variable damage due to probabilistic damage.

Mind you I say "probabilistic" instead of "skill shots" because things like malzahar's W and morgana's W fall into this boat, where there damage can deal either 0 or 100% damage, sometimes with a range in between, sometimes binary.

ShadòwMay 19, 20171 votes

that is just pure BS.

if a skillshot hits is not random..

it depends on positioning and skill

deadlychuckMay 19, 20171 votes

No it's not random.

Probabilistic doesn't mean random.

Though, i can assure you that even the best players of a champion miss some of their skill shots. It's not just a measure of skill however, because even something as simple as projectile speed, can cause massive changes to the skills frequency of landing, even after people adjust to it.

Riot uses this probability as a method of balance, even though most of the time these factors are only ever set in the production of the champion/skill and rarely are used in live balancing. This is why slow moving skill shots tend to be more powerful or why wider AoE skillshots tend to have less damage. They sometimes also add mechanics to it which change the probability of landing it, such as graves being able to hit a wall with Q to increase the odds of it landing.