What if Nasus' E made sence?

The Cane Master·May 26, 2016·2 votes·658 views

OK, as a 350k mastery Nasus player, I can say that his E ability feels really underwhelming. It only reduces armor by a flat number, and only to enemies while they are standing in the AOE. Not to mention that this ability doesn't synergize well with anything from his kit, nor other team comps.

Anyhow, I have some suggestions. They come from a game called Bloodline Champions. One character has this AOE that slows the incoming projectiles and lets them through, while the other one absorbs and reflects them. I'll paste them fighting 1v1, Glutton vs Herald of Insight https://youtu.be/vHpNSX2yzRo?t=1m2s

22 Comments

CaítlynMay 26, 20164 votes

How does it not synergize with his kit? Nasus uses W and slows someone into the E. Done.

ShinkoMinoriMay 26, 20163 votes

sence... sence... sence..

SENCE...!!!!!!

The Cane MasterMay 26, 20161 votes

Sorry that English is not my native language. Instead of mocking me you could have added an argument to the topic.

SexySoapTurtleMay 26, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Invincible champ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5TTEAubd,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-05-26T22:55:16.302+0000)

Sorry that English is not my native language. Instead of mocking me you could have added an argument to the topic.

The salt is real

coeurloyalMay 27, 20162 votes

You still speak better English than 50% of the native English speakers I've met.

The Cane MasterMay 27, 20161 votes

Thank you, I have been working on it on university and had a great teacher.

Critmaster GarenMay 27, 20163 votes

i think armor shred makes more sense than slowing projectiles, considering he deals mostly physical damage, but doesnt have armor pen items that synergize well with his kit.

he could build mortal reminder, but he wants to stack defenses and health.

however i think that his kit could use some slight touches.

they could put more health scaling into his abilities. his e could be changed to deal physical damage instead of magic damage aswell, so he gets some synergy with cleaver.

The Cane MasterMay 27, 20161 votes

he could build mortal reminder, but he wants to stack defenses and health.

You obviously haven't played Nasus at all, or at least you are not good with him. As plat III 4th consecutive year, and a 350k Nasus main, I can tell you that the only way to build Nasus and be effective is full tank. I'm taking Frozen Heart, lvl 2 boots, Spirit Visage, Thornmail, Randuins and an item of your choice. This build is the only one viable because he gets kited for days, doesn't have innate mobility or hard cc to stop/interrupt dashes/blinks and you need to walk and survive through all incoming dmg to get to low armor targets to do your work. He's not a competitive champions because his main source of dmg is physical, allowing opposing tank to stack armor to counter both you and adc. That is why Ekko and Maokai are the top 2 top laners atm (tbh only partially since Ekko's kit is just overwhelmingly rich and versatile).

they could put more health scaling into his abilities. his e could be changed to deal physical damage instead of magic damage aswell, so he gets some synergy with cleaver.

His E and ulti have to deal magic damage to at least diversify his damage a bit.

Critmaster GarenMay 27, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Invincible champ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5TTEAubd,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-05-27T18:11:10.019+0000)

You obviously haven't played Nasus at all, or at least you are not good with him. As plat III 4th consecutive year, and a 350k Nasus main, I can tell you that the only way to build Nasus and be effective is full tank. I'm taking Frozen Heart, lvl 2 boots, Spirit Visage, Thornmail, Randuins and an item of your choice. This build is the only one viable because he gets kited for days, doesn't have innate mobility or hard cc to stop/interrupt dashes/blinks and you need to walk and survive through all incoming dmg to get to low armor targets to do your work. He's not a competitive champions because his main source of dmg is physical, allowing opposing tank to stack armor to counter both you and adc. That is why Ekko and Maokai are the top 2 top laners atm (tbh only partially since Ekko's kit is just overwhelmingly rich and versatile).

His E and ulti have to deal magic damage to at least diversify his damage a bit.

i dont know what youre trying to say.

i did say nasus prefers to build defense and doesnt want to build last whisper items as it would leave him too squishy. youre basically just repeating what i said.

but thats why the armor shred on his e is useful.

The Cane MasterMay 27, 20161 votes

i dont know what youre trying to say.

i did say nasus prefers to build defense and doesnt want to build last whisper items as it would leave him too squishy. youre basically just repeating what i said.

Sorry about that, I thought that you saying he could build mortal reminder was a sincere suggestion, rather than a wrong example of his itemization.

his e could be changed to deal physical damage instead of magic damage aswell, so he gets some synergy with cleaver.

I don't know where did you get the idea that Nasus with Black Cleaver would do better than going another defensive/utility item instead. I'm repeating, his unviability (partially) comes from doing mostly physical damage, thus forcing the team comp to have ap both in jungle and mid so that the damage spread is well mixed.

EMetaMay 27, 20162 votes

If Nasus were less popular he might have already had a rework. He's certainly one of those old-champs-without-outdated-kits, but players like him so he hasn't had the priority that other champs who are less popular or more problematic have. Could he be more fun if Riot sent several hundred man-hours his way? Sure. Is he worth being near the top of the list of champs that should get that? Not at all.

Critmaster GarenMay 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If Nasus were less popular he might have already had a rework. He's certainly one of those old-champs-without-outdated-kits, but players like him so he hasn't had the priority that other champs who are less popular or more problematic have. Could he be more fun if Riot sent several hundred man-hours his way? Sure. Is he worth being near the top of the list of champs that should get that? Not at all.

i dont think he needs a functional rework.

basically all his abilities can remain the same. the only thing i could see is some scalings updated and moved around to scale better with health like the other juggernauts.

The Cane MasterMay 27, 20161 votes

Is he worth being near the top of the list of champs that should get that? Not at all.

Why not?

I need to shed some light on the subject. First off, LoL is the most popular game in the world because of its competitive nature. This means the huge interest for broadcast of pre LCS circuit, thus allowing Riot to create LCS format across the world without much worries for financial turnover. This further means that meta champions are what most public sees (the one not involved in the game already), and what should bring more people to it and make them love it. If it is stale like right now is in top lane (Ekko, Maokai, Poppy) https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4ic38f/at_msi_the_top_lane_matchup_has_been_one_of/ people would not see much diversified gameplay. Not only that, but competitive players, who are already engaged, have little to no fun playing, since they are forced into the limited choice of champions to succeed. I know for my self as a top main, I really don't enjoy that choice, thus so many games Nasus and Dr. Mundo.

With this all being said, each and every champion in the game deserves to bring a competitive side with itself. Nasus is surpassed in each category he could compete, be it split pushing, tankiness or crowd control. If there was a team comp, no matter how small niche, in which Nasus could take part and win a competitive match, I wouldn't find him this unviable.

The whole post is made since there isn't, and I find his E the most useless spell in his kit, although W and R aren't that greater. The only thing that makes Nasus still played is his Q, stacking damage and hope your team doesn't make you leave the lane every minute to teamfight because you lose out on potential. This means that if rework is to be done, the only ability that should stay is his Q, the signature ability. If Riot doesn't want to spend that much resources into reworking (revamping) this champion, changing E, Spirit Fire, should be priority, and wouldn't require for much investment.

Edit1: typos

EMetaMay 27, 20162 votes

Nasus got hit unintentionally by the IBG nerfs, and that's kept him off his normal play. I do think he's probably a bit weak right now. But if you have 3-5 champs that always get played top, the problem is with them, not the rest of the 30-something toplaners. And fortunately, they are getting hit. Ekko and Mao both have nerfs in 6.11, and Poppy has been playing under 50% wins for a few patches now.

Nasus does excel in games that go on forever. If you have a Kass mid (or similar) who can handle his own lane match-up and a botlane that's solidly consistent all game (Lucian comes to mind, though I think Sivir works as well now), having a Nasus top who can farm half an hour can really work for you, maybe better than other alternatives once Ekko & Mao get this bit of attention. This works especially well if your top-lane opponent lacks early game damage (like, say, GP).

I saw an AP Nasus in Korea pro play a few patches back. The idea was that even if your Q wasn't as big as it could be, it was still big enough and you brought big AoE damage too.

The Cane MasterMay 27, 20161 votes

Actually, I never build Iceborn Gauntlet on Nasus. Why? Because Frozen Heart simply provides more armor and attack speed debuff. Also Nasus' W (Wither) provides slow which doesn't stack with the one from IBG. I just think that IBG AOE dmg should benefit from Nasus' Q, or least work on minions so that you could stack them at once, and not one at a time. It used to be possible with Ravenous Hydra, I don't know why they removed it.

AP Nasus doesn't have much sustain since he is forced into buying AP instead of resistances. He runs out of mana too quickly and is more than useless in teamfights.

EcchiOtakuTMMay 27, 20162 votes

Nasus would be a lot better imo if his stacks capped at 500 and every "x" stacks he gains a bonus effect and if they combined his W+E so the entire circle and everything about it stayed but additionally slows enemies inside stronger and stronger the longer they stay on it then he could have a new passive and skill...

ATM all he is, simply put is afk farming banking on if your team can survive till late game and even so he gets heavily kited which isn't bad but for how little presence he has early/mid it's not so much annoying but feels like a waste of time even when nasus was stronger before he still felt lackluster.

I think that rework idea is better than slowing projectiles though cause slowing them still doesn't affect point-click projectiles and the amount of projectiles that it would affect would be meaningless in early/mid since nasus doesn't usually matchup vs skillshot projectile users.

The Cane MasterMay 27, 20161 votes

if they combined his W+E so the entire circle and everything about it stayed but additionally slows enemies inside stronger and stronger the longer they stay on it then he could have a new passive and skill...

I agree, this could be a thing, and it would lower (remove) the ''toxicity'' that Wither currently provides. I don't know about the new passive, he really needs that lifesteal in order to survive early and mid game, it actually helps him even late game to sustain up the damage he's taking all the time while being kited. Maybe if they added something to the lifesteal it could be good.

ATM all he is, simply put is afk farming banking on if your team can survive till late game and even so he gets heavily kited which isn't bad but for how little presence he has early/mid it's not so much annoying but feels like a waste of time even when nasus was stronger before he still felt lackluster.

Couldn't have said it better.

I think that rework idea is better than slowing projectiles though cause slowing them still doesn't affect point-click projectiles and the amount of projectiles that it would affect would be meaningless in early/mid since nasus doesn't usually matchup vs skillshot projectile users.

I agree, I don't know how much this ''slow zone'' for projectiles would be effective, but it would fit his theme of countering marksman.

EcchiOtakuTMMay 27, 20161 votes

Actually about the lifesteal passive since he has a new skillshot that would mean he may not need the lifesteal passive if the new skill is good enough. It all just depends on what the new skill and passive would be though.

coeurloyalMay 26, 20161 votes

That skill would likely break Nasus as it would give him a limited immunity to poke--one of his key counters as a juggernaut.

However, I would really like to see that ability on a different champion. That would be an awesome mage skill.

The Cane MasterMay 26, 20161 votes

Well this ability could have a longer CD than current Spirit Fire. And it's a skillshot, so you could step aside and shot past it (similar to how you interact with Yasuo wall).

Colgate GatorMay 27, 20161 votes

I believe Riot has already boarded this subject before.

For Nasus to have any significant buff, he'd need some major changes, namely, his infinite Q stacking and probably wither nerf, but of course, people didn't react positively to that.

The Cane MasterMay 27, 20161 votes

Besides Q, Wither makes him (somewhat) able to have some use. Not to mention that his W was gutted 3 years ago, in patches 3.6 http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/game-updates/patch-36-notes and 4.1 http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-41-notes.

This was added to his previous nerfs to his passive in 3.14 http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-314-notes destroying his viability in jungle completely, as that is where he was only viable before these nerfs.

Buffing the champions doesn't mean weakening his already strong sides, rather strenghthening the weak ones.