Rammus is literally unplayable after the 'w' changes

Cloud273·Jun 26, 2017·26 votes·3,060 views

He already had enough counterplay before they added the slow on his 'w'. All you have to do is have your top laner or a minion block the 'q', and then he can't reach your squishies. But after the 'w' changes I can never catch anyone. All I can do is attempt to powerball into someone, and if that fails I'm literally useless the entire fight. I can't run away with my 'w' up because I'm slowed, so by protecting myself I'm literally killing myself in the process. This nerf is stupid and made absolutely no sense.

90 Comments

GULAG 4 UJun 26, 201712 votes

He's maybe not good, but literally unplayable?

Use the god damn words correctly man.

Cloud273Jun 26, 20173 votes

{quoted}

He's not good, but literally unplayable?

Use the god damn works correctly man.

Maybe in blind pick/normals you'll have some luck with him, but I doubt you'll get very far in ranked with him.

MelledoneusJun 26, 20177 votes

I won a 4v5 in ranked as Rammus, single-handedly carrying us through victory. A small sample size, yes, but I learned a lot from it.

It's all about knowing when to W to go with the tempo of the fight. Activate W when the enemy is clashing and pushing at you, de-activate when they're on the run.

The slow makes early ganks very difficult to pull off, though. I would appreciate it if the slow was reduced a bit so that he wasn't so sluggish in the early game.

GULAG 4 UJun 26, 20171 votes

THat's the 4v5 we talked about around 2 days ago amright?

MelledoneusJun 26, 20172 votes

Yes, the one where we won ARAM-style.

ModThe DjinnJun 26, 201710 votes

The statistics seem to disagree -- his win rate spiked upwards post-change.

Cloud273Jun 26, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5TELEmNY,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-06-26T03:00:15.286+0000)

The statistics seem to disagree -- his win rate spiked upwards post-change.

You guys always tell people not to take champion.gg seriously, and now suddenly u are taking it seriously?

ModThe DjinnJun 26, 20177 votes

{quoted}

You guys always tell people not to take champion.gg seriously, and now suddenly u are taking it seriously?

Oh -- to clarify, I'm not associated with Riot in any way save that I'm a volunteer moderator. Champion.gg isn't something to take 100% seriously, but if a winrate spike occurs immediately after a patch that changes something in a major way, there's a good chance there's some cause and effect going on there.

CrazFight Jun 26, 20175 votes

I dont think its a worse champ, i just find him un satisfying to play, as Djinn said the win rate has overall gone up for the champ so thats a invalid statement.

Junglerz FaultJun 26, 20175 votes

Everyone finds the new Rammus unsatisfying. Maybe fun isn't in Riot's balance team's vocabulary anymore. Also, op.gg shows the higher tier's win rates, while most of the players play below this level.

ShaolinToiletJun 26, 20171 votes

The game isn't balanced around silver

Junglerz FaultJun 26, 20173 votes

I dont give af what it's balanced around. This is still a game whether you want to admit it or not. Do you know what games are for? FUN!!!! Rammus is the least fun played champ now.

Wet DrymanJun 26, 20173 votes

Games have also other purposes for example this one is competition like in real life sport. Fun is very subjective thing and the only thing they can do to check if it's fun or not is to just release reworks and gather big data samples from players. No need to get overemotional all of sudden.

LeagueofGraphs shows that Rammus is fine even in low elo (Bronze to Gold) so balance wise there is nothing wrong with him currently.

Junglerz FaultJun 26, 20172 votes

Actually fun is not subjective. Look it up in the dictionary. But if you think so, then your right to stomp in an e-sport should not infringe on my right to have my fun if that's the case.

And I dont give af about balance wise. Rammus is the least fun played champ now. Show me some data on that. It seems you keep skirting around this issue though. That's what we want to improve.

Wet DrymanJun 26, 20172 votes

You actually say on numerous threads that he was gutted so I showed you that he is in better spot than before. You also commented on statistics taken only from high elo so I showed you stats from even better site for low elo. Fun IS subjective, one finds enjoyment in FPS games and other guy has no fun playing them. In your case you think that current Rammus is unfun to play as while on RammusMains reddit page people enjoy his current state or stay neutral towards it.

You have the right to not care about balance state but it has nothing to do with that this game is built around balance so it shouldn't surprise you that Riot will change something in order to make game more balanced (and they achieved that with the rework). It's RTS game with competition being the nr 1 priority hence the LCS stage and Ranked Games afterall.

Junglerz FaultJun 26, 20172 votes

Because RammusMain subreddit is the subject matter expert on Rammus and is meant to be taken as 100% truth and serious with every single aspect of LoL in mind? LOL sure. Yes I do have the right to not care about balance, and I also have the right to care about my fun, which was removed. And with the dwindling of LCS fans, it will only get worse for everyone as a whole.

Wet DrymanJun 26, 20172 votes

You are completely missing the point... RammusMains was an example of fun being subjective not about being right or wrong 100% of the time LOL. Riot won't catter to everyone because it is impossible there will be always people that are upset because of changes and there will be people that will like the changes. The question is if majority finds these fun or not. I don't know if majority finds Rammus fun or unfun but judging by number of threads about that topic, upvotes, downvotes and people that are reading this you're just in minority (though I might be in error but there is no data either way).

LCS not always stands in opposition to fun. Riot tries to make changes that are good for competitive state of game while being fun to majority of people. If you don't find this fun it doesn't automatically mean that what they do is garbage and is bad for the game, you might just happened to be in minority that doesn't like certain thing while rest enjoy it. Crying because you want them to make it fun for you at the expense of majority and game principles is ridiculous and it's not how business works.

Junglerz FaultJun 26, 20172 votes

[deleted]

Wet DrymanJun 26, 20172 votes

I said I might be in error it's just my guessing. Unless someone provides data and not what you or I think saying that someone is at fault in this matter is stupid. You state your points based on data like facts without any data (for example "Rammus is the least fun played champ now", "The majority does find Rammus unfun" where are your stats to cover that statement?).

The glaring problem is that you find new Rammus unfun. I told you that it doesn't matter as long as these changes made game fun for majority of people because this is how business works in order to make money company catters to the majority. The only thing they might do is to make it fun for more people but it can be not as easy or not even possible on pair with other people tastes and their principles (game balance, money making etc.). When you look at the problem at least look at the bigger picture (you call that smoke screen) because maybe then you will notice that not every problem can be fixed just like that or your problem might be unsolvable. Those changes were made to make Rammus healthier for the game, make his less cancerous to play against and keep him in this state untill his inevitable rework.

I didn't take a side in this discussion. The only thing I did was closing you to a bigger picture of this problem. If you'll prove me through statistics that majority thinks that Rammus changes were bad/it made him unfun then OK I'll agree, Riot will need to fix that. If for majority Rammus is actually OK he is fun to play as and against then you're in error. I didn't take a side in this discussion as I have no data on that.

If crying is insult then how will you comment "skirting around the problem" or your passive-agressive "Because RammusMain subreddit is the subject matter expert on Rammus and is meant to be taken as 100% truth and serious with every single aspect of LoL in mind? LOL sure." If it is then I apologise.

Junglerz FaultJun 26, 20172 votes

Actually a revert would completely solve my problem. Stop over complicating things. This is ridiculously easy to fix. These changes had nothing to do with making Rammus healthier for the game. Please what fantasy world are you living in? And I do not accept your apology. You did skirt around the problem, and you continue to do so with so many words.

Wet DrymanJun 26, 20173 votes

You just can't read with understanding, can you? You don't bother about what I said at all just spelling your mantra. They can't revert Rammus because this means that we are back to no counterplay, unhealthy champion that is bad for game's health. This reason alone is why they won't revert it especially when it isn't a main problem right now and rework made him better balance wise.

These changes made him healthier, his abilities have drawbacks for all the consistency they have and they have some more counterplay.

You don't pay attention to your opponent's arguments, you can't understand at all, discuss things they don't even said (like with RammusMains example) and you're being passive-agressive whole the time.

This discussion is a waste of time. Goodbye.

DiamánteJun 26, 20172 votes

He clearly just straight up hates the champion, stop arguing with him LOL. You can show him as much proof as you want, but he will defend his post the whole time.

ModAcademy KaynJun 27, 20172 votes

He hasn't been giving any proof.

Junglerz FaultJun 27, 20171 votes

Let's try this again. I'm going to post this in hopes that it doesn't get deleted again. And for the record, no where in this post do I call anyone stupid. If you choose to delete another of my posts, please explain what part actually says that anyone is stupid. I am simply making general statements about what unintelligent people do.

Yes you are in error, but no worries. That's why we make threads to educate. The majority does find Rammus unfun.

All I hear you is that you try to act like i'm in the minority while disregarding the glaring problems themselves. Smoke and mirrors.

Oh now you throw out insults saying i'm crying? Yes that's typically what unintelligent people do is to throw insults. You're grasping at straws because you don't really have a point. I understand the need to defend your losing side. Enough said here.

Wet DrymanJun 27, 20171 votes

I've already told you: "discussion" is over. You're either trolling or you're completely unable to understand your adversary.

By the way: throwing general statements in the way you did is actually implying that someone is stupid. Context.

From now on you're blacklisted.

Junglerz FaultJun 30, 20171 votes

This guy lmao. The intelligence level is not very high.

Wet DrymanJun 30, 20171 votes

My intelligence is fine I did tests to be sure, I'm not sure about you though as you can't even understand when someone doesn't want to be bothered by you, address your moderation concerns to moderators, not me by simply talking to them or responding to yourself in this thread if you feel like they are reading it. I don't want any notifications from you, I'm simply tired of your emotional shit. EOT

Junglerz FaultJul 1, 20171 votes

Then stop responding to the thread and stop wasting everyone else's time. No one is making you reply to it. Simple right? And I would take those intelligence tests again if I were you.

TEA Nietzsche Jun 26, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Junglerz Fault,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5TELEmNY,comment-id=0003000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-26T08:47:55.880+0000)

Actually fun is not subjective. Look it up in the dictionary. But if you think so, then your right to stomp in an e-sport should not infringe on my right to have my fun if that's the case.

"It may often have little to no logical basis, and opinions on whether or not an activity is fun may differ."

"You refer to an activity or situation as fun if you think it is pleasant and enjoyable and it causes you to feel happy."

And I dont give af about balance wise. Rammus is the least fun played champ now. Show me some data on that. It seems you keep skirting around this issue though. That's what we want to improve.

No he is the most fun champion right now. Prove me wrong.

korg023Jun 26, 20172 votes

Well said! Riot cares more about balance and less about actual fun! If URF ever comes to be permanent game mode im quitting regular league and moving to full time URF player. Balance team is making this game full of some bs "counterplays,sacrifices etc" Making it pain in the ass to play in sake of balance, its a game, its fantasy , there is no balance, let champions be OP , OP IS FUN WE WANT TO HAVE FUN that is why we are playing this game. If we want reality and sacrifices and balance we would just go outside and play game called REAL LIFE! JESUS CHRIST IM TILTED :D

SkiasJun 26, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Junglerz Fault,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5TELEmNY,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2017-06-26T04:43:27.264+0000)

Everyone finds the new Rammus unsatisfying. Maybe fun isn't in Riot's balance team's vocabulary anymore. Also, op.gg shows the higher tier's win rates, while most of the players play below this level.

Rumble is the same way. They made him awful.

korg023Jun 26, 20172 votes

doesent matter,not fun to play, feels terrible. For what i care he can have 200% win rate lol.

AwesomeGuyDjJun 26, 20177 votes

Ult. "cant catch up with you? Fuck it, be as slow as me"A

korg023Jun 26, 20172 votes

Rememver when Rammus ulti was used for damage? and also dealt more damage than caster minion backline? pepperidge farm remembers

ModAcademy KaynJun 26, 20171 votes

Why does a Tank need great damage, when their job is soaking damage and providing Utility.

ModAcademy KaynJun 26, 20175 votes

http://lolalytics.com/champion/Rammus/

Stats show otherwise.

I'd argue that "just block with top laner/minion" results in the same situation as you claim we have now. Except now, Rammus can do more than just only target the ADC, as was his only job before. He can now provide some Utility instead of some damage, which can effect enemies trying to get close or run away.

Personally, I'd also argue for you to stop playing him like old Rammus. Same thing happened with Aatrox changes, people kept building him the same, and then complained he was now worse.

Junglerz FaultJun 26, 20179 votes

I'm sorry but I need to make sure I am understanding you correctly. Does Aatrox have a 60% self slow debuff on one of his abilities? Did he get his ulti damage nerfed in favor of a useless CC?

And any way you look at him, he is completely less fun to play now. This is still a game, right?

ModAcademy KaynJun 26, 20174 votes

People complained Aatrox was shit, but were playing him like old Aatrox. After people adjusted, and a few more buffs were thrown Aatrox's way, the new builds for Aatrox became prevalent, tankier builds. And people stopped complaining.

See now. Rammus got changed, and yet people still expect to play him the same as the Old Version. OP clearly thinks so. Doesn't matter if it's a 60% slow or not, you're playing new Rammus wrong if you keep trying to play him like the Old, and you yourself are going to be sad with the result.

Junglerz FaultJun 26, 20174 votes

A few buffs should come Rammus way, yes okay I can see that. I think that's what everyone wants. Honestly, I would be happy with just a revert.

And it doesn't matter if its a 60% slow? LOL. This guy ^ On a mobile champ it does matter bud. Sorry. You fail on multiple levels.

ModAcademy KaynJun 26, 20171 votes

He's not a mobile champ. If speed boosts count as a Mobile champ, than Ryze is mobile, Cass is mobile, and Soraka is mobile. Rammus's speed is situational, it's not used the same way actual mobile champs use their mobility. It's his engage.

It sounds like to me that you still are playing new Rammus like Old Rammus. If I use a Philips screwdriver to unscrew a flathead screw, aren't I the one doing something wrong? You're disappointing yourself, by playing something the same way after a Rework.

Junglerz FaultJun 27, 20171 votes

Rammus Powerball would disagree with you.

And don't bring terrible examples in here. Rammus is not a screwdriver.

I am not disappointing myself at all. I am still having fun in other game modes, but not the main game mode I like where he is useless. You along with everyone else on here just can't comprehend that.

ModAcademy KaynJun 27, 20171 votes

Rammus's powerball is his engage, but compared to actual mobile champions, Rammus is not mobile.

The example is apt, you just took it literally, ignoring the actual comparison being made.

Junglerz FaultJun 30, 20171 votes

Changes are being made to his W. Look at surrenderat20. You're welcome.

ModAcademy KaynJun 30, 20171 votes

Because Thornmail's getting changed, losing damage in return for GW. They have room to buff it now.

Junglerz FaultJul 1, 20171 votes

Because thornmail is only used on Rammus, amirite? lol. this guy^

ModAcademy KaynJul 1, 20171 votes

Bruh, you of all people should know how Core of an item Thornmail is on Rammus. It's built on him 9 out of 10 games, and the tenth was a remake.

Balancing a champion around an item is nothing new. Dozens of champs are balanced around Tri-force or Black Cleaver due to natural synergy with the item. Rammus relied heavily on thornmail as an item, and now that it's damage is lowered, they can give Rammus back power.

Basic game design man.

Junglerz FaultJul 2, 20171 votes

I highly doubt THE ONLY REASON they changed Rammus W was because of Thornmail Changes but you can keep living in this fantasy world that you live in. Enjoy.

korg023Jun 26, 20173 votes

He can have 100% win rate when he is so unfun to play at this state. He is literally a brick that can move, slower with W active. From once fun champion they made this clunky shadow of him.

ModAcademy KaynJun 26, 20172 votes

That's really not what Clunky means...