@Riot Upcoming marksman changes: Remove the "Lament" passive from Phantom dancer

TheSingularity··4 votes·1,803 views

Phantom dancer, in my opinion is a problematic and unhealthy item because one of its passives allow a select champion, who should be blatantly obvious to instantly win lane the moment he buys it due to the passive, "Lament" which grants you 12% damage reduction the moment you auto attack, or use a spell that counts as one. This is unhealthy in that it's 12% less damage from EVERYTHING! Not just from physical or magic damage, EVERYTHING! This makes it very hard to retaliate to a Yasuo who can walk/dash through minions straight into your face (thanks to the ghost-like passive on item 3046) as your losing an obscene amount of damage against an offensive item. It is a pure stat check

On a select few champions I feel competent against yasuo on, Kled Velkoz I rule the lane for a while. Until he buys this single item. As kled, yasuo's can't win the 1v1 early on, until they buy item 3046. They buy anything else and it's up to who's better. Can I bait the windwall? The shield. Can he bait my dash and Q before engaging? But I can't out play a stat check. As vel'koz I'm able to win the poke war and even kill him post 6, but my threatening damage turns into a tickle that yasuo and his shield shrugs off as if I'm not even there.

Yasuo has his shield, and if yasuo wants to beef up because he's struggling, he should have to invest in defensive items or weaker offensive items. There are no items that can punch through 12% damage reduction. No magic pen, lethality or % magic/armor pen/shred does anything to it. And it's movement passive is more than enough additional power.

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It is an overall nerf to yasuo, but also an overall buff to his game health. This silly item, that basically only he builds is my only beef with yasuo that makes him feel unfair. Remove this and it is once again up to the yasuo to out play me. As annoying as windwall is I don't mind it, as annoying as his shield is I can deal with it and as annoying as his ult tower safety is well I just shouldn't be stupid enough to get hit buy a Q under tower.

Very few champions will suffer from a nerf, and for the one extra that might, she has 3 other options to trade the PD for and... anecdotally, I've never seen a Sivir buy a phantom dancer since it's changes. As for gangplank, he to has 3 other options and can always opt for something actually tanky as opposed to this silly solution.

All of below are in theory based on % item 3046 pick rates from na.op.gg Not at all: MissFortune Kalista Champions who pick phantom dancer less than every other zeal item: Jinx Jhin Kaisa Caitlyn Vayne Draven Tristana Varus KogMaw Tryndamere Not first but behind 1 or 2 items: Xayah Ashe Twitch Lucian MasterYi Champions who pick it first often: Sivir Yasuo Gangplank (only zeal GP builds)

The nerf I propose is simple, remove "Lament" from phantom dancer entirely, if any compensation buff is needed, it should be a slight cost reduction.

Thoughts? Do you agree or disagree? Would love to get a convo going

Edit: slight re think on the compensation buffs Edit 2: If you're going to downvote have the decency to explain your position.

21 Comments

RIP Tahm Kench4 votes

12% From the last person you damaged only, not from all 5 players/tower/minions

TheSingularity1 votes

Yes, I know. And it only takes that stat boost to instantly win yasuo any lane he is in. It isn't needed, yas can do it without buying an item that completely stomps any chance his enemy has. he is one of 3 champs who buys it consistently, it will not be missed. he has 3 other options, one of which, the statik shiv was the dominant pick before PD got the marksman update changes. Wonder what changed?

Yes it won;t be as good in 5v5, But he still has his shield and shield reset, potentially defensive items, heal/shields, windwall and his dashes. Add on the fact that he's likely fed or at the very least way ahead thanks to the advantage PD gave him in lane to kill or roam uncontested

rtbf2234347212 votes

LAMENT: Grants 12% damage reduction against the last enemy champion you basic attacked (lasts for 10 seconds and refreshes with each basic attack).

In lane this is cancer if abused.

rtbf2234347213 votes

I agree!

item 3046 first item on Yasuo does not make ANY sense. Never did, and never will do.

Just a cheap item that gives yasuo a evident power spike with no counter possible. Its an item that is abused by yasuo players since forever, as rush first item because of the lament passive.

LAMENT: Grants 12% damage reduction against the last enemy champion you basic attacked (lasts for 10 seconds and refreshes with each basic attack).

If yasuo players want to play a mechanical intensive champion they can without abusing 1 single item.

Balderdash2 votes

Its an item that is abused by yasuo players since forever, as rush first item because of the lament passive.

Of course it has nothing to do with it having the highest AS out of all zeal items. And the crit is not important aswell.

TheSingularity1 votes

The entire is package important yes, but as I said, Yasuo picks anything but this and generally I still have a chance to win lane. Even if he picks this item, it isn't that he pops or shreds me with it, it's that I can no longer deal enough damage to have a chance

saltran4 votes

If I'm not wrong Yasuo used to get item 3087 as first item until item 3046 was changed in the Adc's rework to be a 1vs1 item.

Pokemonred2001 votes

That's because at the time, Shiv had 40% Attack Speed and it didn't completely obliterate every wave (which it started to do when they added the bonus minion damage). He played midlane so shiv helped him push, but it didn't push so well that he never had minions to dash to when he used it. PD was also 300 gold more expensive (Shiv was 2500 to PD's 2800) at the time to top it off. Yas began using PD because the prices got changed to match, and Shiv started erasing waves left and right.

Nowadays, the two are basically even options (though PD still helps him cap his Q CDR better than Shiv ever will). He also splitpushes more than he used to, which Phantom Dancer is more useful in because of the dueling potential. Shiv is still an amazing option for teamfights and burst, though.

Pokemonred2001 votes

On top of that though, Stattik Shiv built out of an Avarice Blade at the time, which was a gold generation item. This allowed it to be obtained even faster than PD, given Phantom Dancer had no gold gen item in its recipe and it was still more expensive.

TheSingularity1 votes

ikr, I mean does anyone come to mind who insta wins with this one item apart from yasuo?

Snowman Arc2 votes

Well, the damage reduction is against one champion you last hit, so in a teamfight, it's almost useless. Also, if it was removed, then there would be no point in buying it. It can't match Shiv's waveclear, and can't match RFC's extra range and faster energized attacks. I think the item is fine, maybe Yasuo needs some tuning instead.

TheSingularity1 votes

The reason to buy it would be the same as the original, to be able to ignore minion collision.

And while the 12% is indeed for one person, that one person is his lane opponent, who instantly loses the moment yasuo purchases this item. You can;t out play a stat check.

Snowman Arc2 votes

Therefore, Yasuo is the problem, and not the item. Aside from maybe Tryndamere as well, nobody buys this item in the top lane, and ADCs only buy it as a 3rd or 4th time.

TheSingularity1 votes

Yasuo bought statik before but doesn't now for first item. Yasuo didn't change. The items changed. pd became an item that fulfills everything a yas could dream of in a first item

Snowman Arc1 votes

Therefore, Yasuo is the problem. Nobody else buys this item as a core item first.

TheSingularity1 votes

No one else buys this as a core item because it was designed for the melee crit champs.

A problematic item does not make the champion who buys it the problem... when said champion can buy something else and it is completely resolved...

rtbf2234347212 votes

They could make item 3046 passive for ranged only.

TheSingularity1 votes

Dam was hoping for at least a little discussion

BLIGHTBRINGER1 votes

Combine item 3046 with item 3047 that's a total of 24% damage reduction from basic attacks.

rtbf2234347211 votes

Champions who pick it first often: Sivir Yasuo Gangplank (only zeal GP builds)

Sivir rushes item 1038 1300 gold. By the time she finishes it, Top and Mid laners will have more gold. Gangplank rushes item 3078.... item 3046 its a mid late game choice for him.

Yasuo rushes item 3046 2600 gold everytime, every game. Gives him a offensive and defensive powerspyke. There's no item more custom made for a champion that item 3046 for Yasuo .

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