Can supports climb lower Elo S9? Time to test it.

Kai Guy·Oct 2, 2019·4 votes·4,031 views

A lot of player act like supports make no impact on a match in low Elo. I disagree and want to walk my talk. So I let a bunch of folks build a list of champions that are "impossible" to climb with.

At the moment the list is

I am entirely happy to add or remove from this list in reaction to boards users.

I'd rather not do as I already climbed from Silver 4 in Flex to Gold with her solo. If its a request because players think she got over nerfed then I will play her.

Speak up if you don't think some thing is viable and needs to be added.

24 Comments

F1uttershy2075Oct 3, 20193 votes

Yes honestly ,

I climbed from Bronze to Gold By playing Nami.

IT's funny cause in all honestly the reason I played support was cause I got tired of always getting Supports who didn't want to be a support from auto fill and ended up just harassing the adc or picking some thing that was silly just cause they didn't get the position they wanted.

F1uttershy2075Oct 3, 20193 votes

But to your point. Its not that Supports can't carry.

Its the issue of most supports Are Autofilled people who Refuse to play the role and will rather harass their adc or half ass it. just because they got a position they don't want to play .

Kai GuyOct 3, 20191 votes

Oh I 100% believe supports who play well make an impact and can literally carry games. Nami is one I also climbed with, First time I made gold was 100% cuz of her kit.

Thing is folks don't believe what is said so im making a very open and public attempt to play things folks have zero faith in.

To be clear any one who says supports are so team reliant they don't matter on a matches outcome is a statement I strongly disagree with.

KeiagaOct 2, 20192 votes

Thought i had a stroke reading this.

Kai GuyOct 2, 20191 votes

Cleaned it up. Better?

KVbqbFsC8eOct 2, 20192 votes

It sounds like a waste of time. You know very well the people here only believe what they want to believe.

Kai GuyOct 2, 20191 votes

This is a direct response to the folks who wont listen and demanded proof. I am giving them every opportunity to participate and trying to be as open as possible.

XintiumOct 3, 20192 votes

Very interesting topic.

Some supports are more team-dependant than others, that's a fact. So what matters is not if, say, a Diamond smurf can go back in Diamond with his main Nami 1 milion mastery points. That's already a given, or he would have dropped out of Diamond long ago.

A little thought experiment can explain what a truly fair comparison would look like. Pick a support which is currently over-tuned, like Pyke Blitzcrank Nautilus . Count how many games you need to go from, say, Silver 4 to Gold 4. Now pick a more team-dependant support, like Lulu or Yuumi (no DuoQ allowed! dont cheat!). Count the same thing. Imagine to repeat this process many many times, in order to get better estimates. Then answer this question: Which champion actually had more impact, statistically?

I think every player who played this game since before Season 6 already knows the answer.

So, can you pick the lowest winrate support and "smurf" it out of low elo? Sure! Can you do it consistently? Yes, why not. Does that mean anything regarding actual game-impact ? IMHO, no. Not even remotely.

Kai GuyOct 3, 20191 votes

no DuoQ allowed! dont cheat!

I wont.

So your picks for me to use are Lulu and Yuumi?

Yes, why not. Does that mean anything regarding actual game-impact ? IMHO, no. Not even remotely

I feel consistently showing ability to climb off a champions kit is pretty solid evidence for game impact. low/No impact should show up as an inability to climb.

XintiumOct 4, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5O8HxP41,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-10-03T20:55:12.816+0000)

I wont.

So your picks for me to use are Lulu and Yuumi?

Just Lulu, since you already did Yuumi.

I feel consistently showing ability to climb off a champions kit is pretty solid evidence for game impact. low/No impact should show up as an inability to climb.

Winning shows skill difference (including macro-game knowledge, mechanics, etc.). IMHO, game impact is an entirely different thing. It has nothing to do with winning/losing. Let me explain with a short video (note that this is an old video, but it's just an example and nothing more). In that video, Pyke does a penta during a teamfight, winning it. If you could watch the whole game, that moment is certainly the moment you could do a snapshot and say "That's when Pyke had game impact". Red team (Pyke's team) could well lose the game in the next minutes, but the game impact Pyke had is undeniable.

So, what actually is game impact? When you watch a game, it's easy to tell which champion had game impact, even if they ultimately lost the game. Defining it in an abstract way is just cumbersome.

I believe it has happened at least once to all of us to find a team with a guy who basically did nothing and got carried by the team. We can say he had no game impact (or, at worst, a negative game impact). It is likely we also found the "reverse" situation of a team member who single-handedly carried the game (great game impact).

Almost paradoxically, game impact is best shown when your team is losing (not necessarily hard losing, slightly behind is enough) and then there is some "big play" which flips the tables. I think this is the kind of game impact which champions like Lulu will never achieve, while champions like Blitz, Nautilus, Thresh, Pyke, can do much, much more easily. And precisely this fact, for me, is evidence for which champions actually have the kits with the best game impact.

OfficerKilljoyOct 4, 20192 votes

Coming from someone who mained support from season 4-5ish onwards, I can say with absolute certainty that in order to climb as a support you either need a reliable duo partner with a similar level of skill, or you need to be 3x better than everyone. You can climb with anyone in any role, sure, but some roles require more skill than others to climb with. Like if you play a carry jungler and are decent, you can climb much faster than if you play a mean lulu support. Your lulu support better be the literal meanest. As in absolutely devilish.

Support is unique in the sense that you both have the most control over the game's outcome, and the least. You have your hand dipped lightly into every aspect of the game- damage, heals, tanking, engage, disengage, vision, utility, etc., but most of the time you don't necessarily excel immensely in any single one of those aspects or, if you do, it's not enough to carry a game on its own merit.

You can enhance others' plays incredibly well, but it's more like you can make good players great and make up for maybe 2-3 out of 5 mistakes bad players make, you don't carry the entire game on your shoulders, unless you are a master of using pyke support or choose a mage support like lux, annie, or brand who are basically carries that sort of support kinda-ish.

It's also a thankless job, and if you mess up only a few times, you'll potentially tilt half or more of your team. Like messing up a bard ult or janna ult, or missing a single tornado once as janna and letting your adc die to the khazix early.

I have personally given up trying to play support, and I'm going back to top lane. At least there I can have more sway over whether we win or not, and if I mess up a few times and miss one or two spells nobody will be on my case like an adc would in bot lane.

If you're determined enough to try this, then I recommend playing heavy engage supports like leona, thresh, or blitz, or heavy disengage supports like janna or nami. Those typically help enhance teamfights and sway them in your favor more than other supports at the moment (except for yuumi, she's busted).

Kai GuyOct 4, 20191 votes

Started B1. Skiped a promotion to S4 after 3 games which was weird. Had the same ADC 3 games in a row which was also weird. That's what I get for playing at 12 to 3 am I guess. End result of the day 3 wins 2 losses. Gold 4 and Silver 1 MMR average on op.gg S4 Ranking on account.

XintiumOct 4, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Coming from someone who mained support from season 4-5ish onwards, I can say with absolute certainty that in order to climb as a support you either need a reliable duo partner with a similar level of skill, or you need to be 3x better than everyone [...]

I didn't quote your whole post only for brevity, but I fully agree with this sentiment.

Cind3rkickOct 2, 20191 votes

Play yi support!

Kai GuyOct 2, 20191 votes

Cheesing random champions is not the goal. I am trying to change the opinion of folks who think traditional supports lack impact. So I have to decline, as much fun as cheesing things can be. Off meta is my personal preference.

SylaelqueOct 2, 20191 votes

You can climb with Blitzcrank Rakan Taric but Lulu Soraka still highly depends on team.

Daddy AntsOct 2, 20191 votes

Abuse Blitzcrank Leona Nautilus Pyke Thresh

Kai GuyOct 2, 20191 votes

That's quite literally the exact opposite of what I want to do. I already believe Supports are viable as a class and even traditional enchanters or guardian style kits are impactful enough to influence wins.

Point is to show it to folks who adamantly disagree, as attempting to just explain it has not helped change their opinions. My Goal is to do it openly to remove doubt. If you think there are some "impossible" supports feel free to list them. I'm looking for the harder ones. Not cheese but champs who are accepted as belonging in the role.

PandeonorOct 4, 20191 votes

I guess with Blitzcrank it should be possible. You have to be good with him, but (if well played) he can give a lead so that even a bad adc can win a match. He also has according to champion.gg a positive winrate in bronze.

Same for Rakan. Even it needs more skill to play him properly. A well played Rakan is a beast.

The KombinatorOct 4, 20191 votes

Do it truly solo, and in solo/duo. Some players consider flex as normals.

Remove Soraka from the list until plat. I know for sure, that she can carry unless team is seriously bad compared to the enemy. And if team is seriously bad compared to the enemy, then it doesn't matter what you play. I mean for any role.

At least this is true up to gold1. I'm gold 2 right now, and i don't play much lately, but i rarely get focused. The only way to counter Soraka in lategame teamfight is to focus her, if you don't, then her lategame heal can easily rival any damage's DPS, and even assassin's burst. But in midgame she is still a force to reckon with, if you ignore her.

On lover levels she is even more OP, because people stick to their meta build no matter what, and they usually just target the closest guy. As Soraka you stand behind, and with no heal reduction you can heal a LOT.

My experience as main support over 2k. games in total since season 2.

Tank: Can win bot HARD, but if lose, then he will lose HARD. Picking it on solo is quite risky. Your teammate might have bad reaction, and that is a sure lose. Also in current meta they scale real bad in lategame.

Poker: You beat enchanters in early, and tanks until lvl3. After lvl3 tanks will make you suffer, if you go outside turret, or make any mistake. Also, if you fail to get ahead early, then you gona suffer midgame, and if enemy got any assassin, then you sure lost lategame. It's a sort of trap. It gives you the illusion of winning, because you can win botlane a lot. But it's a lie. You win your lane, and lose the game for it, if enemy got an assassin who isn't real bad on any position.

Enchanter: You unlikely win early game. But you unlikely to lose hard either. In later stages you can make your team win as long as there is someone worth defending. That person is not neccessarily the ADC. It's better to hardbuff the fed Yi as Lulu, than trying to keep the worthless adc alive.

Kai GuyOct 4, 20191 votes

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=DarkMARKRises [sg-miss-fortune] This guy got me as his support for 3 games back to back.

Have not made a full rotation yet. Bard Nami Rakan Soraka Taric so far. Going to just cycle thru the list of supports.

Skipped Bronze 1 Promos.

Kai GuyOct 4, 20191 votes

Well shit. https://imgur.com/a/ZvlF5Fo

Smurf detection running. I might need to Duo to get into lower MMR games.

Jesi OniOct 4, 20191 votes

Annie Nautilus Pyke Shen Velkoz Veigar Xerath Zyra

Now Support is just additional mid laner. You have 2 kills at your lane and 'support' adc that is cs'ing for you to get exp while you try to kill them and bathe in gold.

At least low elo 🤣

(Sooo much glowing eyes on this list of champions 🤔)