Every champ has mastery

Pupel·Jun 6, 2016·31 votes·1,904 views

Even mechanically easy champs require mastery to play to their full potential. The knowledge of matchups, powerspikes, builds, and playstyles are not things you just know. That Garen with 500 games with Garen didnt style on your ass by facemashing he knew what to build agsinst you, when to go in, how to teamfight, and when to press what buttons. Thats not something you can pickup in 20 games. That Annie who went 20/0 probably knows when to roam and when to waveclear. The Maokai who never dies knows how to zone off carries while not getting isolated and knows who to focus and who to peel for. Just cause someone plays a champ that has easier mechanics and does well doesnt mean it was easy for them

58 Comments

Faceroll TacticsJun 6, 201616 votes

Yes,

But it is significantly easier to learn those champs. I don't respect MasterYi mains as much as I respect the god Azir Cassiopeia Orianna mains.

Only Play DariusJun 7, 201613 votes

But your username.....

Baron of BreadJun 7, 20166 votes

Yi is actually a pretty high skill cap. Dodging and disjointing cc with Q or using W as an auto reset aren't easy by any means.

HaloDragonXJun 7, 20169 votes

And then there's dying in alpha

BaunjoJun 7, 20161 votes

You can't die in alpha. The damage and cc that hit or targeted you the split second before you alpha is applied after you are finished with alpha, but it sounds like you didn't know that did you?

SSJTribeJun 7, 20165 votes

and here I thought literally everyone knew this meme....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LimM9a2ajE4

BaunjoJun 8, 20161 votes

sigh... he never dies DURING ALPHA. I have watched that video countless times, ffs you can even look at the ability information and see " during alpha strikes duration he becomes untargetable " or something to that effect, but it is DURING alpha strike, not before and after.

SSJTribeJun 8, 20163 votes

bro, start the clip at the 12 second mark. Slow your video speed to 0.25. After getting stunned by Anivia he alpha strikes her. But as soon as Anivia casts her ult it hits him and he dies while in alpha.

I get that it's supposed to make you invulnerable and untargetable, but it has been known to be unreliable for a long time now.

DealthJun 7, 20162 votes

Yeah he's really hard to play

right cilcks really hard penta kill really really hard

LeetriJun 7, 20161 votes

And then you get hit by a stray Morgana Q and you die because you don't know how to dodge CC with his Q.

Weiner the PoohJun 7, 20163 votes

dodging with his Q really isnt that hard.

BaunjoJun 7, 20163 votes

No, it's not mechanically intensive to use his Q, Yi is about decision making and not mechanical intensive plays.

You have to know the ins and outs of every enemy kit well during teamfights and know their combo's as well as weigh in your mind which ability absolutely needs to be dodged whether you use Q or not, which ones you can be hit by and survive, etc.

Not only that, but you need to still be processing positioning and make sure to use all of the rest of your spells appropriately, as well as item actives.

Yi is about thinking, not outplaying.

Weiner the PoohJun 7, 20161 votes

If thats what you believe.

BaunjoJun 7, 20161 votes

Whenever someone gives you logical facts in response to an outlandish statement, just be ignorant and isolate the persons opinion rather than adding more to the subject. Typical 12 year old bronze 5 kid who goes on boards X)

Baron of BreadJun 7, 20161 votes

No need to be rude, people are allowed to disagree.

BaunjoJun 8, 20161 votes

The boards are here for discussion. Not for people saying " hey you're wrong. "

Best Darius KRJun 7, 20163 votes

Constructive argument i see.

Only Play DariusJun 7, 20161 votes

So how about Yasuo? He's similar to Yi and needs to think but at the same time is more mechanically intensive.

BaunjoJun 8, 20161 votes

I have played a lot of Yasuo and have not done well with him extensively. I would not have any argument against him being mechanically intensive, he is pretty hard to play at times.

ereiserengoJun 7, 20161 votes

i actually agree, mech easy champions are easy to play and easy to counter, so if you wanna play well you need to be better in decision making. I main rengar and if you are good with his mech you can litterally make retarded calls and still survive-win cause you can ouy play ppl, with yi you cant.

PupelJun 7, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Faceroll Tactics,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5IArWlzN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-06-06T23:52:37.347+0000)

Yes,

But it is significantly easier to learn those champs. I don't respect mains as much as I respect the god mains.

Sure you can play Yi and hit all his abilities easier than the rest but knowing when to Q when to W what times you need to gank when you are stronger than who specific jungle paths that all takes many many games of practice and is just as hard to master

BluePolarizerJun 7, 20162 votes

I respect Yi mains way more. Yi is extremely hard to play due to his Q mechanics and W mechanics.

Good Yi mains will make you rage and get pentakills effortlessly.

A bad 1st time Yi will open up a buffet.

It took me 20 ranked games to get good at Yi. Although I don't play him seriously anymore, I respect his power and his skillcap.

MrPharmDJun 8, 20161 votes

Are Azir and Ori really that hard, though? Ori just throws out a standard QW for pretty good poke lol. I don't see Ori as being much harder than any typical mage. I can play her for the first time and do MUCH better than I can playing Yi for the first time. Not sure about Azir since I saw he just got nerfed, but before he would just throw out his soldiers and push you outta lane. Wasn't that hard lol.

Faceroll TacticsJun 8, 20161 votes

Orianna is a very mechanical and decision making champion. You need to keep track of two champions at once more or less. The times you can completely miss your ultimate could be numerous. There is also the ultimate that catches 4-5 people, but the displacement cause your team to miss most of their abilities. Knowing when to use W offensively or defensively, knowing when to shield, ball placement, and your own positioning.

Azir Is just learning combos. Not everyone can pull off the WEQ combo every time. The Shurima Shuffle is what makes Azir players so threatening, and you can mess that up if you aren't experienced

Nameless VoiceJun 7, 20168 votes

I'd argue that mechanically simpler champions are often actually harder to play because they tend not to have as many ways to turn situations to their advantage as mechanically complex champions with overloaded kits do.

I have much more respect for a great Sona player than for a great Lee Sin player. If Sona messes up, she's dead. If Lee Sin messes up, he still has more tools in his kit to get him out of that situation.

manbearswineJun 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5IArWlzN,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-06-07T00:09:48.509+0000)

I'd argue that mechanically simpler champions are often actually harder to play because they tend not to have as many ways to turn situations to their advantage as mechanically complex champions with overloaded kits do.

I have much more respect for a great Sona player than for a great Lee Sin player. If Sona messes up, she's dead. If Lee Sin messes up, he still has more tools in his kit to get him out of that situation.

Thing is lee sin is in a race against time with the coming lategame, he needs to make the right decisions early to make himself a worthwhile pick, sona meanwhile just mostly hopes the enemy laners/junglers don't know how to play against her, but I'd say that as far as the player himself is concerned, it takes much more skill(and I'm not talking mechanical, I'm talking decision making) to make a lee worth picking than make a sona worth picking(for sona it's just hoping her enemies are bad).

DeathBurstJun 7, 20161 votes

If you're just hoping your enemies are worse than yourself, then you don't master the champ. Even with Garen or Sona, if your enemy is good and you cannot abuse him, you should still try to limit your losses in lane until you can be useful in late game.

I agree with you that Lee Sin requires much more complex decision making, though, but it's basically true of all Junglers compared to Supports. The previous poster was wrong to make this analogy to begin with.

manbearswineJun 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you're just hoping your enemies are worse than yourself, then you don't master the champ.

I hate to break it to you, buy for plenty of champions there is no other choice, you can master it as much as you want, you will still need your enemies to play poorly for them to make sense, some champions simply fall flat against proper play and there's a reason why you don't see them played in competitive, so no, mastering has nothing to do with it, this is just the way riot balances the game.

Even with Garen or Sona, if your enemy is good and you cannot abuse him, you should still try to limit your losses in lane until you can be useful in late game.

You do realize that they will outscale you right?

DeathBurstJun 7, 20161 votes

Yeah, that's not true until you reach Diamond or something like that, your stuff about "no other choice", because that's the level the game is balanced for. And even there, few match-ups are outright hard-counter where you cannot do anything at all. Below that, there is still plenty of room for progression, and knowing how to behave in the face of a hard opponent will ensure that you are not completely shutdown.

And hum, talking about out-scaling for supports is kinda strange, and who can both hard-counter garen in lane and outscale him in late game? Vayne and Lucian, basically, but hopefully they are easy prey for ganks if they really want to abuse you.

manbearswineJun 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, that's not true until you reach Diamond or something like that,

Of course it is, it's just less apparent, a person can be gold and still know how to destroy a sona(presumably) it's just less likely for you to meet such a person in gold.

your stuff about "no other choice", because that's the level the game is balanced for.

No it isn't, the game is balanced around a lot of things, most of which are plat or competitive, but mostly plat(which is utter shit btw).

And even there, few match-ups are outright hard-counter where you cannot do anything at all.

There's actually quite a solid amount of those where you just hope for help from the jungler, and many of those where you are just in a bad spot from 0:00 till the game ends.

Below that, there is still plenty of room for progression, and knowing how to behave in the face of a hard opponent will ensure that you are not completely shutdown.

I'm kind of getting the impression that below that are a bunch of chickens running around with their heads cut off.

And hum, talking about out-scaling for supports is kinda strange,

Huh? Alistar scales into a monster, nami falls off like a brick, some things vary by comp but karma tends to fall like a brick too, zyra will do that as well(ironically to some I would guess), trundle scales hard into late as well, but the thing is that generally for supports what counters you early will counter you late as well(not always, but in most cases), so you are just placed in a disadvantage for the entire game.

and who can both hard-counter garen in lane and outscale him in late game? Vayne and Lucian, basically, but hopefully they are easy prey for ganks if they really want to abuse you.

Like, 70% of top laners I presume? I can ask a few friends for something more accurate and specific if you want me to?

Chaotic ReksJun 7, 20161 votes

If Sona messes up, she's dead. If Lee Sin messes up, he still has more tools in his kit to get him out of that situation.

there's a difference between overloaded kits and being mechanically complicated.

IncognonymousJun 7, 20165 votes

Yi: When you want to play the game, but you don't really feel like playing the game.

MarshbouyJun 7, 20163 votes

thats why i tell my friends in skype calls to shut up when they say a champion is easy to play

Jeddy017Jun 6, 20162 votes

In other words, skill floor =/= skill ceiling.

ApollogyJun 7, 20162 votes

I feel ya, playing WW for 6 years, I know his ins and outs better than just about everyone out there.

Don't matter if he's mechanically simple. That just means that when you commit to a decision, there's less room for error.

What matters more is whether or not you've made a good decision. The champion that have simpler mechanics require you to get better at league of legends as a whole in order to get better with that champion. If you want to take advantage of your power spikes, you also should to know the enemy's power spikes. Playing a champion like WW who doesn't have the option of retreating isn't easy. You can't just press R. People who say that are the reason why the average number of WW deaths are 6 per game. I don't even know how to die 6 times with WW unless you've got an AFK and are forced to die repeatedly as soon as you leave your fountain.

Stop thoughtlessly pressing R. WW lives matter.

Weiner the PoohJun 7, 20161 votes

His ins are farm til 6 then gank with ult, wow so hard.

DeathBurstJun 7, 20161 votes

It's ironic how he precisely addressed this specific point and backed his argument with data, and yet that's still the only thing you manage to bring up in your answer. As if you hadn't actually read his post. Oh, wait...

ApollogyJun 7, 20161 votes

Happens, lol

I just wish his AD ratio on his ult was higher than 40%. There's rarely ever a good time to build AD. It just doesn't do much damage, you're better off building pure tank.

Weiner the PoohJun 7, 20161 votes

It was simply sarcasm ;-;

Weiner the PoohJun 7, 20161 votes

I was joking... Was it that obviously not a joke? Maybe my sarcasm is not as obvious as i thought ¯_(ツ)_/¯

DeathBurstJun 7, 20161 votes

Tbh, it sounds like sarcasm, but in a "bullsh*t, WW is actually über-simple"-way, not in a "yeah, people should stop complaining about WW"-way.

The DeckownerJun 7, 20161 votes

CertainlyT is reworking him, good luck.

ApollogyJun 7, 20161 votes

Basically, lol

FearEngineerJun 7, 20162 votes

Every champ has mastery, but not every champ is difficult to master.

/thread

NyanzaJun 7, 20161 votes

Shaco has a straightforward kit with a simple design, yet is one of the hardest champions to master. The same could be said about Nunu Tryndamere Galio Fiddlesticks Pantheon

LauchmelderJun 7, 20161 votes

If Shaco ever gets into Meta I'm quitting until that time is over. That guy is a nightmare in good Hands.

MazariamontiJun 7, 20161 votes

Every assassin is a nightmare in the right hands

LauchmelderJun 8, 20161 votes

Sure, but I can deal with an Akali, a Zed or a Diana. Shaco on the other hand tilts me early so I am screwed late.

venomous frostJun 7, 20161 votes

This has nothing to do with champions mechanics, knowing when to cs/peel/zone is just basic game knowledge, regardless of champion.

PupelJun 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=venomous frost,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5IArWlzN,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2016-06-07T09:59:00.194+0000)

This has nothing to do with champions mechanics, knowing when to cs/peel/zone is just basic game knowledge, regardless of champion.

yes but build/playstyle/ability rotation are unique