Honestly with a kit like that can you blame people? I think 
is the melee assassin version of 
... He will need more than 3 reworks.
ult hybrid on W
I do not think these changes are what you are looking for in a "healthy assassin"
Yordle Xayah17 votesRengar's Fantasy: "Swift Death from Stealth" You can't balance that fantasy. It's impossible. It's either broken or unplayable.
Like Soraka's fantasy: "Infinite Sustain" Again: Broken or unplayable. See how she isn't played anymore?
Balance for such concepts is impossible, because they are unhealthy concepts at their very inception.
Spoofghoul2 voteswell rengars fantasy i agree can simply not be balanced, but i think soraka can be balanced though it would require a rework probably i mean infinite sustain is not exactly the same as broken sustain
Yordle Xayah4 votesProblem with Soraka is that her fantasy should be "Super Heals" not "Infinite Sustain" and give her like a window of power that she has to play around, not just be "Oh my ADC just went for a trade? Nope: ctrl+z"
Hyrum Graff2 votesProblem with Soraka is that her fantasy should be "Super Heals" not "Infinite Sustain" and give her like a window of power that she has to play around, not just be "Oh my ADC just went for a trade? Nope: ctrl+z"
Think of soraka like medic from tf2 (or the healer in pretty much any fps), and I think her fantasy becomes pretty clear.
It also becomes pretty clear that the counterplay should be "kill soraka first." And that tankraka is therefore unacceptable.
Aptest1 voteswhere is the ubercharge?
you're talking about taric mate, not soraka.
Hyrum Graff1 voteswhere is the ubercharge?
you're talking about taric mate, not soraka.
"Like" being the operative word in that comment.
Yordle Xayah1 votesAh yes, and there sir, is the problem. "the healer in pretty much any fps"
This is no FPS.
Hyrum Graff1 votesAh yes, and there sir, is the problem. "the healer in pretty much any fps"
This is no FPS.
The same concept can still apply.
As someone who plays soraka occasionally, squishy soraka feels fairer and more fun for everybody involved.
feryvunny10 votesVery true. They need to adjust Rengar's core theme and/or find a new way to fit a healthier passive.
At the moment I find the most unhealthy thing about Rengar is his bonetooth. They've been trying so hard to keep it, but it just doesn't work. Back to the drawing board, Riot.
JOOOHNCEENA1 votesJust give him infinitely stacking 1% ad on bonetooth necklace
ForFoxSakes1 votesor make it an item again so it takes up an inventory slot if he chooses that massive buff
Genocide Victim1 votesRengar's Fantasy: "Swift Death from Stealth" You can't balance that fantasy. It's impossible. It's either broken or unplayable.
Like Soraka's fantasy: "Infinite Sustain" Again: Broken or unplayable. See how she isn't played anymore?
Balance for such concepts is impossible, because they are unhealthy concepts at their very inception.
100% correct. It seems Riot completely forgot the principles they themselves established.
Oglaf16 votes30% bonus AD is simply busted.
What were Riot thinking?!
It is not even hard to trigger on Rengar; in fact, you have to go out of your way NOT to trigger it.
[zombie-brand-clap]
Sylvant11 voteshe is the new Zed. Provokes players to play a certain way, build certain items and players just hate being forced out of their regular playstyle
bad arcade kitty8 voteshe is the new Zed. Provokes players to play a certain way, build certain items and players just hate being forced out of their regular playstyle
zed never was too bad though
Nebuul14 votesZed forced every adc to rush quicksilver and every mage to rush Zhonya's.
ForFoxSakes1 votesexcept now you cant even do that against Rengar or build against him. You just die
LemurMonster8 votesHe can also build with just one attack item & build pure tank & melt one in a single combo.. Riot please get rid of this! I am sick of dealing with buster tank builds like this.
a special one4 voteswell less than 48% win rate
rtbf761092717 votesThis happens with every pick/ban champ who becomes super popular. People try to play him for the first time since they heard he was good, and lose since they dont know what they are doing. The important win rate is from mains, which is harder to actually determine
AthenasVendetta3 votesHe is fine, most like every other new champion, people are still having problems drafting a comp against him and playing against him.
Cloud27316 votesHe is fine, most like every other new champion, people are still having problems drafting a comp against him and playing against him.
The thing is there is no comp that can deal with him. Because of the free QSS in his kit it's impossible to focus him down. So you can either attempt to cc him and fail, or you can just not cc him and let him have his way with your team. Either way you lose.
AthenasVendetta1 votesThe thing is there is no comp that can deal with him. Because of the free QSS in his kit it's impossible to focus him down. So you can either attempt to cc him and fail, or you can just not cc him and let him have his way with your team. Either way you lose.
Incorrect... knock backs, knocks ups.... the same thing that applied to other assassins is still true. You and others just don't WANT to draft to win... you draft your want-to-play champions. Janna, Syndra, Maokai, Malphite, Zac, Braum.... All of these good examples of counter picks/drafts to a comp supporting Rengar
Now what you haven't seen... and probably won't unless much higher tier play is a comp focused around Rengar. Eg: Lulu, Orianna. That would be no more terrifing than before.
PokladnicaZla17 votesPsst. Counterpicking isn't the same as counterplay.
Critkeeper4 votesIncorrect... knock backs, knocks ups.... the same thing that applied to other assassins is still true. You and others just don't WANT to draft to win... you draft your want-to-play champions. Janna, Syndra, Maokai, Malphite, Zac, Braum.... All of these good examples of counter picks/drafts to a comp supporting Rengar
Now what you haven't seen... and probably won't unless much higher tier play is a comp focused around Rengar. Eg: Lulu, Orianna. That would be no more terrifing than before.
It doesn't just cleanse cc, it makes him briefly immune to it.
feryvunny2 votesOn top if giving him an insane MS boost. Honestly I thought Riot learned from Ekko and Fizz to not OVERLOAD assassin kits. Why did they feel the need to give Rengar so much?
Personally I feel like they're just playing favorites with him because he's popular.
Hyrum Graff1 votesThe thing is there is no comp that can deal with him. Because of the free QSS in his kit it's impossible to focus him down. So you can either attempt to cc him and fail, or you can just not cc him and let him have his way with your team. Either way you lose.
Poppy does ok. That's about it, though.
jemande1 votesThe thing is there is no comp that can deal with him. Because of the free QSS in his kit it's impossible to focus him down. So you can either attempt to cc him and fail, or you can just not cc him and let him have his way with your team. Either way you lose.
Wrong,First off you need to pull of at least e and q and because there is 0.3 cast time on q there is a chance to actually cc him Second,are you all forgeting about karma janna sona bla bla bla rengar counters?? Especially janna she just ult and done no rengar jump. Rengar problem atm is that bruiser build is just way better then the assassin build ,Go tank still dealing decent damage and survive but you need to remember there is still control wards on the game that reveals rengar,Locket of iron broken and low brain redemption
Ultimate Deadpoo1 votesPersonally, I think the main problem with the new kit is that W. The old W was great, it gave you this limited window of time where you could kill stuff without being instantly blown up, but the new one feels overloaded and just plain unhealthy to play around. And I'm a Rengar main. The other thing is that I feel like while Rengar mains are able to basically play him the same way as they always did, other people have to play around him differently, so this could be part of the reason why Rengo is having the success that he is. Personally though, just revert his W to the way it used to be, and I think we have ourselves a winner.
All Skillzz8 votes[{quoted}](name=Ultimate Deadpoo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5FNPaoVT,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2016-11-19T19:46:18.167+0000)
Personally, I think the main problem with the new kit is that W. The old W was great, it gave you this limited window of time where you could kill stuff without being instantly blown up, but the new one feels overloaded and just plain unhealthy to play around. And I'm a Rengar main. The other thing is that I feel like while Rengar mains are able to basically play him the same way as they always did, other people have to play around him differently, so this could be part of the reason why Rengo is having the success that he is. Personally though, just revert his W to the way it used to be, and I think we have ourselves a winner.
his passive is a fucking ad deathcap that is beyond broken and needs changes.
Dengeden1 votesFree? The kills you give him are "free"?
Rengar has AoE damage?
His ult is worse than ever.
rtbf761092717 voteshttp://imgur.com/a/z4PX8#r1ZHc10
Yes this is a "free" kill. 70% of my max hp from his q at lv1 = free kill. He's retarded right now, he can do 450 damage at lv1 in TWO SECONDS
Dengeden3 votesYou fought a 4 stacks Rengar when you had no minions. Rengar top should lose every match up. Literally don't let him drag creeps into the brush and enjoy the free lane.
rtbf761092716 votesHe was sitting in the bush. I walked up to cs. He jumps to a minion, not even me since i was out of range, then did this.
Look buddy i think the 60% ban rate speaks for itself. You can try to stick up for him as much as you want but until that number changes after a nerf idaf what you say haha
Dengeden2 votesRengar top sucks. The 60% ban rate changes nothing about the fact that Rengar in lane lul. Period. His jump range didn't get buffed. Which means he dragged them to the brush.
He also cleared 6 minions while you cleared 3, yet you didn't back off.
(And shouldn't you be happy that Ekko top is weak? This is Board's after all)
Dusk Mane Rengar1 votesRengar top is broken.
Your level 1 all in will either take enemy's flash or kill him.
Also you can trade with 3 ferocity by doing Q-W-W and taking 0 damage if you use your W correctly while also being impossible to CC.
The matchups in which Rengar can be weak is against Ranged but it doesn't matter since at Level 6 you can all-in and is pretty much a kill
And yes his jump range got buffed in compensation for the old trophy system.
Dengeden1 votesSolution: Don't fight Rengar for extended periods of time. Just like you don't fight Shaco top for extended periods of time. Learn to farm, deny farm, control the wave and abuse powerspikes. It's bread and butter top lane.
There are no champions that can consistently kill you lv 1. Yasuo can't, Rengar can't.
Ah it did get buffed? That didn't stop the one Rengar top I've had so far from whining and feeding but fair enough.
Dusk Mane Rengar1 votesYasuo can't, Rengar can't.
Dude you can, at level 1 or level 2 a Rengar all in will force your flash or he will kill you. He could do this before the rework too but now the power spike is even stronger.
Dengeden1 votesHow? He can't jump on you from the lane brushes if you hug the river. And the fact that you say this about pre-rework Rengar who was undoubtedly the worst top laner in existence, makes me even more dubious.
Dusk Mane Rengar1 votesYou obviously haven't played Rengar top a single time in your life. Rengar has always been able to cheese you at level 1/2 by using Exh or Ignite and AA resets, moreover the laner will need to get closer to the wave if they want to farm.
Dude i have played Rengar top for 2 years and like 90% i was able to get first blood at level 1/2, 3 if your oppenent plays passive af.
Dengeden1 votesWhat do you do when Irelia stuns you? And there's no way that Rengar somehow wins against Darius's lv 1. Mundo will chuck cleavers at you and at minions. Riven can CC you, or shield and run away. Sion can shout at minions 2 steps away from his tower. Nasus's sustain or E waveclear, whichever he prefers, are unparalleled against a melee autoattacker like Rengo. Yasuo also will outpush you and certainly never let you get to him. And you mean to tell me you can burst through cloth 4 consistently?
I'll need some other example then. What this guy posted in the Ekko matchup doesn't count. As soon as Rengo jumped in, he could've backed off and let minions push.
Why have I not seen Rengar top do this lv 1-2 all-in (to any success?) in all the months I've wasted playing or watching top lane streamers/montages?
Dusk Mane Rengar1 votesvs Irelia. Not killed but forced her flash. vs Darius. Couldn't find Dr.Mundo Gameplays vs Riven. vs Sion. vs Yasuo. Not killed but forced his flash. vs Nasus.
All the champions you said are killed at level 1,2 or 3 in those videos, its pre rework Rengar but it applies to reworked Rengar
Why have I not seen Rengar top do this lv 1-2 all-in (to any success?) in all the months I've wasted playing or watching top lane streamers/montages?
Cause most of the time only Rengar mains know that Rengar's level 2 is one of the most powerful level 2 of the game due the ferocity and AA resets.
EDIT: Forgot to say that Exhaust help you at reduce the enemy's damage meaning that while you are stunned you can Exhaust them to minimize the damage dealed while you are disabled.
jemande1 votes[{quoted}](name=No Rengar NoLife,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5FNPaoVT,comment-id=000c00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-20T11:30:38.414+0000)
Rengar top is broken.
Your level 1 all in will either take enemy's flash or kill him.
Also you can trade with 3 ferocity by doing Q-W-W and taking 0 damage if you use your W correctly while also being impossible to CC.
The matchups in which Rengar can be weak is against Ranged but it doesn't matter since at Level 6 you can all-in and is pretty much a kill
And yes his jump range got buffed in compensation for the old trophy system.
Darius level 1 is also impossible to trade,there are champion that have insane level 1 trade power you just need to learn how to play against them
Dusk Mane Rengar1 votesYou can i have done myself, exhaust+kite+avoid him to get the 5 stacks and he can die pretty easily.
Hell even if he doesnt level W at level 1 its more easy.
ForFoxSakes1 votesDarius has no movement speed buff/gap closer like rengar's leap. Also Darius needs to get 5 stacks on you or hit with out edge Q, otherwise he can't all in or have heavily favorable trades. That sounds like a lot of mechanical counterplay available against Darius when Rengar just has to hit Q
jemande1 votesDarius has no movement speed buff/gap closer like rengar's leap. Also Darius needs to get 5 stacks on you or hit with out edge Q, otherwise he can't all in or have heavily favorable trades. That sounds like a lot of mechanical counterplay available against Darius when Rengar just has to hit Q
that is a falacy by your part,Rengar needs to constantly be on combat that means keeping ferocity is not that easy if you want to make wave managements(jump is considered an aa and that trigger auto minions).Darius have 2 slows one of them is 90% although its 1 sec only
ForFoxSakes1 votesRengar can build his ferocity anywhere and then come to gank with a full bar, so needs to constantly be in combat is pure bullshit.
Darius would be OP broken if he could pre stack his hemorrhage then come fight you with noxian might active at the start which is like what Rengar is able to do. Also 2 slows on Darius? WTF? Do you even play that champ?
Nuparu3 votesRengar's been able to do that since his creation back in Season 2...
If the top cheese with max ferocity was what made him broken, he'd have been broken for four seasons now (in top lane) versus being terrible for two (in top lane).
What's actually broken is his ability to build bruiser-tank and scale into late game ridiculously well by still one hitting your backline and running away with it.
Dusk Mane Rengar1 votes^^^^
You are so right mate.
