If you are mid last pick and you picks ad assassin when whole team have no ap

The Deckowner·Jul 1, 2016·95 votes·6,871 views

then I hate you.

88 Comments

Zero Skill TankJul 1, 201627 votes

Just like when you pick squishy toplaner, your jungle and support proceed to pick squishy, and than they both blame you for having no tank in team.

Only Play DariusJul 2, 201616 votes

Frankly I don't care what my team needs, if I see a Quinn or any mobile ADC top i'm picking Yasuo , end of story. Too many games where I pick a tanky champ into ranged champs out of consideration for my team, only to get shoved under my turret zoned from all CS without any ganks.

iamthegoatofwarJul 2, 20163 votes

start giving nasus a try into quinn. While I main jungle and know the pain I know full damn well that wither will ruin anyone with a dash that must hit an enemy target. If the jungler hasn't ganked about 12 minutes in and is doing nothing note worthy (hey man ignore me if you're getting 6/0 off that bot lane) I will threaten to just afk as much as I hate doing so.

Only Play DariusJul 2, 20162 votes

Nasus is bad enough this meta with his nonexistant early game and is a liability to his team regardless of who he is against (except maybe Trynd, who is equally as cheesy right now). I have played Nasus into Quinn many times, it's hell, by the time you have enough armor to withstand her harass (if she lets you get to that point) she will just R and snowball the entire map and you have no way of following her as you have to stay top and stack.

DarfallerJul 2, 20162 votes

I went like deep farm mode once on nasus versus a quinn, destroyed her

B1naryB0tJul 2, 201611 votes

Then the quinn didn't know she has the ability to impact other lanes. You don't wanna farm, you wanna use the fact that you can roam at the speed of sound and that Nasus can't.

DarfallerJul 3, 20161 votes

She roamed, and failed, then she came back, and got destroyed, bad day for her.

Only Play DariusJul 2, 20163 votes

Like I said, you can farm all you want. While she snowballs the entire map and then makes it back in time to stop you at her second turret. In the end 1200 stacks means nothing if her entire team is ahead of yours.

DeathBot666Jul 2, 20165 votes

Well, if you one shot the mid and ADC in a fight, then those 1200 stacks might be a LITTLE helpful.

EedatJul 2, 20162 votes

Sounds like they picked Quinn because they googled a counter pick right before the game started instead of picking a champ they know how to play

Slamurai JackJul 2, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5AzOobI9,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-07-02T02:27:57.794+0000)

Frankly I don't care what my team needs, if I see a Quinn or any mobile ADC top i'm picking , end of story. Too many games where I pick a tanky champ into ranged champs out of consideration for my team, only to get shoved under my turret zoned from all CS without any ganks.

Playing around your jungler is always a terrible strat unless you know they're good. End of story. You always pick to survive lane first because there's absolutely no guarantee your jungler will do anything for you if you pick into a bad matchup for the good of the team. If anything, they're more likely to flame you for doing badly and then never help you for the entire game.

ElikainJul 2, 20163 votes

I don't care about the meta, everyone can pick whatever the want but what irks me is when people intentionally pick something and then play it like shit and don't want to itemize to counter their opponents.

For example, your team has predominantly magic damage and your mid laner or AP carry won't rush a Void Staff but leaves it as a last item and you inevitably start losing the mid game because the enemy isn't stupid and they start stacking MR. And then the same guy attempts to wall himself off with a wall built of shit and lies, how he dealt the most damage to the enemy team and yet, every fight you've had so far ended up in your team dying despite his superior damage dealing.

And what's amazing is that this is always your mid laner and ADC fucking it up like this. The enemy carries are not stupid either so if they see a target they can't kill and can't avoid, they itemize to either survive an encounter or kill it - Mortal / Dominik's / Morello's / Void Staff.

Only Play DariusJul 3, 20161 votes

I hate how they buffed healing and used Mortal Reminder as an excuse. I cannot for the life of me ever convince my ADC to build it against an out of control healer.

ElikainJul 3, 20161 votes

Well, previously Grevious Wounds only used to block self heals and regeneration effects and they reverted that change. Mortal Reminder really isn't a bad item but it's situational - against Vlad, Swain, Mundo, Soraka, Volibear... you get the gist. It isn't strictly for countering heals, it offers quite a bit of damage and makes sure you don't have to worry about enemies stacking armor. So it's not a waste of a slot.

What point is more and more damage in your build if the damage the enemy can block from you is 70%? If you have 1000 AP or damage, with his kind of a reduction, it's 700 raw stats lost. That's a lot of gold wasted on your part instead of investing in a cheaper % resistance ignoring item that also offers damage. If you cannot evade their tank and he sticks out like a sore thumb, then you have to itemize to make him back off or simply remove him as a problem. A lot of people think that they can simply kill the squishies and that just doesn't happen like they want.

And i feel you completely. As a support main, i just don't have the options of investing in these items myself. You have to buy a Sightstone, you have to finish your Gold item and (as a Morgana support main), investing in a Morello's even is a chore. And after you finish this item, the enemy is likely to already build some MR so now you have to invest in a Void Staff. And all because you wanted to be the smart guy and buy a Grevious Wounds effect, for a steep price. What's even worse with this purchase is that Mortal Reminder's GV applies instantly while Morello's applies when your target is bellow 35% HP so that requires bursting a target which is more appropriate for a mid laner, not you.

C9 Scott Free Jul 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Just like when you pick squishy toplaner, your jungle and support proceed to pick squishy, and than they both blame you for having no tank in team.

Or instead we could use the intended pick feature and we would all know what we can get away with lol.

hoes and bowsJul 2, 201618 votes

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/520/073/eb9.jpg

The DeckownerJul 2, 20163 votes

http://i.imgur.com/KypsLcE.jpg?noredirect

ShonjlJul 1, 201610 votes

I think its even worse when its all AP. At least an all AD team can still win due to the overabundance of flat and % arpen and if they win fast. AP its basically RIP since there is more ways to block AP than AD.

AD you just build armor and damage and try to outlast them til the armor reaches the point that their arpen is worthless and their damage can't keep up. That 20-40 flat arpen means little when I built 300 armor and still can blow you up. Even if you get a Last whisper item, I am still probably gonna have around 150+ armor so still gonna withstand you fairly well while you just made 3 items just to counter me, while I still will blow you up anyways.

AP you basically just build pure MR and its GG to them, god forbid you get Steraks or Maw on top of that. I remember a time a very fed Syndra tried to attack me as a Garen that had SV, Banshee(without the shield up) and Maw, even though she had Void staff, she couldn't even 1/4 health me with her entire combo, while I just casually E>R her. Whats that? Your high AP Syndra combo does about 2500-3k damage? Let's cut that down by about 70%, and I am over here with 4k hp to begin with, god forbid Maw or Sterak shield comes up.

YumaS2AstralJul 2, 20167 votes

However, you are never going to face a pure AP team. The closest things would be a team with an ADC Corki since he does half magic damage with his autos and he does so much magic damage that it is better to stack MR against him. However, Corki is a rare pick those days, since he has been nerfed so much. Another possiblity would be a team with Mordekaiser as their ADC - it was actually quite common to have a full AP team back when he was meta.

I actually hate facing 4 APs, 1 AD teams. This is because even though there are 4 APs on the enemy team, I still have to stack two, sometimes three armor items just to whitstand the damage from their ADC. Whereas against a 4 ADs, 1 AP team, I just have to buy only one magic resistance item to whitstand their damage, and that is enough.

Guy Fox TeemoJul 2, 20161 votes

You'll never have a Full AP team though because of the ADC.

AeszarckJul 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Guy Fox Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5AzOobI9,comment-id=00050003,timestamp=2016-07-02T05:13:52.465+0000)

You'll never have a Full AP team though because of the ADC.

As YumaS2Astral said, Mordekaiser and Corki are both bottom laners with a lot of AP in their kits.

TotalJerkJul 2, 20161 votes

At least in that case the other team will still receive physical damage from turrets, minions and monsters.

DehitayJul 1, 20168 votes

Yasuo and Zed have made so many games easier for tanks cause of this reason.

Apparently, some whiney ad mid assassin with no care for team composition downvoted you.

Ryzing2DiamondJul 1, 20166 votes

How about when I go Ryze toplane and for some reason our mid and jungler decide to go AP? Seriously, I lose every game that this happens.

It's usually Nidalee or Gragas jungle and Leblanc mid. The enemy team just camps bot so that the only AD can't farm and then stacks MR. Loss every time.

ShonjlJul 1, 20166 votes

{quoted}

How about when I go Ryze toplane and for some reason our mid and jungler decide to go AP? Seriously, I lose every game that this happens.

It's usually Nidalee or Gragas jungle and Leblanc mid. The enemy team just camps bot so that the only AD can't farm and then stacks MR. Loss every time.

Personally I would let mid go what they want before Top/Jng do. Jungle and top have a lot more variety of what to do or play as vs Mid. Mid you basically are either a Mage or Assassin, if you don't like Assassins, you lost the AD part of Mid since Yasuo, Talon, Zed are basically/are Assassins. All you are left with is AP. Top can go Sustain, Bruiser, Tank, both AD and AP, and Jng is even more varied, you can go burst AD or AP, AS AD or AP, Bruiser AD or AP, Tank.

Voluug13Jul 2, 20163 votes

Some adcs actually work quite well, specially Varus..

The DeckownerJul 2, 20164 votes

AP top is at a very akward position right now, unless you are a offtank like vlad or swain, you are gonna have a hard time forming a decent composition, because most tanks can't function in mid and ad assassins are in a very shitty spot right now. So the jungler will need to play some carry style ad jungler while mid go kind of off tank champions.

warpenguin555Jul 2, 20161 votes

i once went Diana jungle 1st pick, the rest of my team was Vlad, Lux, Corki, Morg. Not even kidding, the enemy team laughed so hard. we got stomped

DeathBurstJul 2, 20163 votes

I somewhat agree with you, but...

That shouldn't be only the last pick burden to balance the team comp. That's why pick intent is for. If you use pick intent and you see the team is full AD, then you can discuss about who can change, who is able to play an AP or who has too narrow a champion pool. The first picks shouldn't force their decision on the last pick.

And that's not only true about full AD comp, too. When I'm sup last pick and I clearly said I couldn't play a Tank support, and the top and the jungler simply ignore me and pick an Assassin and a Skirmisher, and then they dare say "gg no Tank" when I pick the AP support I showed since the moment I enter the lobby, I'm mad.

LlaniteJul 2, 20163 votes

It's pretty unreasonable to make someone takes something they don't like, just because they get to go last.

It's hard to ask other people to be a team player when you're not one yourself.

SpoofghoulJul 2, 20163 votes

item 3047 item 3036 item 3071 item 3142 item 3156 item 3147

what's the fucking problem sir

O and i also got arpen reds quints and masteries

MigYalleJul 2, 20163 votes

Kennan top, Nidalee Jungle, Leona Support and Adc Caitlyn, No knock-ups... Yasuo Yasuo Yasuo Yasuo Yasuo

JofeyyJul 2, 20164 votes

A real Yasuo player doesn't need ally knockups :)

AeszarckJul 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hunter of Oryx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5AzOobI9,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2016-07-02T11:14:01.086+0000)

Kennan top, Nidalee Jungle, Leona Support and Adc Caitlyn, No knock-ups...

I only have four top laners with airborne effects, , Jayce , Quinn and Shyvana , and they're not even very useful airborne effects. As a Yasuo, how important is it for you to get airborne effects on your team?

(Also, as a middle laner it's even worse; I only have Syndra , Jayce , and Quinn .)

Only Play DariusJul 2, 20161 votes

A quick Yasuo can get a solid ult off a Darius pull

MigYalleJul 3, 20161 votes

I wouldn't say it's the most important, but getting off your Ultimate + Your shield again is a big thing, Usually just using your Q or E-Q can put you in a bad spot if they enemy reacts correctly. I noticed I tend to win a lot more fights when a teammate has a knock up besides my own. The better of the Yasuo players don't need knock ups from their team, but the effectiveness of the knock ups are what matter and how Yasuo extends the CC by an entire second aswell.

SwaidJul 2, 20163 votes

I generally mid lane as Chogath .

Sure, I don't get many kills, but I can bully the hell outta people during the laning phase and provide a tank for teamfights, just in case no one else picked one. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Next I'm going to try DrMundo and TahmKench in midlane! Can't wait.

OneExitJul 2, 20163 votes

I main Khazix now, I will hover my pick and let you know I have > 75% win ratio on Khazix , but if someone else truly refuses to pick a tank then I will pick Sion Nautilus or Volibear . MORAL OF THE STORY: If you carry me; I will tank for you.

Kitty ClarissaJul 2, 20162 votes

Honestly life of a toplaner when you are forced to play an AP top (i mainly play range/ap tops) mid complains no tank when they can just play Chogath Ekko Malphite ETC as ap brusier since they can build tank and be worth too. AD brusier wise Riven Aatrox Fiora Irelia since they build more damage then tank and in the end can fill more then 1 role .

ADC wise i can do much then that but Corki is really the only one who can go hybrid others I guess KogMaw too since he does magic damage or Ezreal who can go AP to in the bot lane .

support wise well we all know if we have no AP we can have Zyra Velkoz Annie Sona Lulu Karma as they are APCs who can support and have good base damage with utility

jungler wise need AP Amumu AP, Diana Fiddlesticks Maokai Chogath all are AP junglers in a way

my 2 cents

balbraakselJul 2, 20162 votes

I agree with this but I also hate anyone who doesn't have the brain to think up he'd need to build a item 3036 item 3071 item 3033 item 3135 as 3rd/4th item against a team with 3 tanks. I consider 100 armor on an enemy as time for buying item 3035 and 120 armor or magic resist for time to buy .

Because most itemize properly against tanks in silver I'm a Zyra support main, build item 3151 item 3135 and you're set to carry the game as a tank wrecker.

BhagswagJul 2, 20162 votes

If you expect me to the play the game how you want me to play, why don't you just play it? Lol.

ShinjusukeJul 2, 20161 votes

Since there's a bunch of top fanboys in here that know nothing about any role but the most isolated, least strategic role in the game, here's some knowledge: The only role I know of that's (mostly) exempt from the "fill what our team needs" role is jungle, because the factors that go into "what's the optimal jungle pick" are sooooo much larger than those for the lane roles.

Sure, I could pick a tanky, AP jungler cuz we're all a bunch of squishy ad champions. But we'll get fucked, because the enemy team is going going to...

pick something with far faster clear speed and they'll have a fed-ass jungler shitting on us midgame, or..
pick something that can gank earlier or stronger and just shit on all you squishy motherfuckers because I'll be like finishing my first clear when he starts camping you, or
we'll have no backup if our xXZedMasterXx sucks ass and our 360noScope Caitlyn can't figure out how to carry a fuckin' game and our n3wM3ta support Lee Sin can't land a fucking Q

Meanwhile, like every toplane pick can be summed up into:

Do I wanna pretend my role ISN'T the one people count on for a frontline, and first pick a squishy top without having a clue whether the jungle or support is going to also pick something squishy cuz they're good at that champion and it's not uncommon for their roles?
Does what the enemy top wants to pick hardcore counter what I want, and do I even care cuz I'm a top laner and i'll just whine at the jungle to fix my idiotic lane matchup for me because otherwise I can just say "GG NO GANKS" and put the whole team on tilt?
Do I take teleport like I fuckin' know what I'm doing, or do I take ignite cuz I pretend I'm going to carry the game even though I can't cs for shit and need a gank every 30 seconds?

Sure, if you wanna pick your mid champion for top lane cuz you're whiney and can't handle that you didn't get mid, go right ahead. Just know you're probably the reason your team loses.

NotSpecialDudeJul 2, 20161 votes

As someone who plays top lane and has difficulty understanding sarcasm let me throw my 2 cents.

Top lane is the role with the most malleable in the game but comes at the cost of its isolation. Case and point, If your sole tank is top, then your early and mid game bouts are gonna be rougher due to not having a front lane. a tanky jg could cover, but as you said they tend to have slow clears and could be countered with faster jungler.

Its honestly not an easy answer, just a simple pick your poison.

Tank Top - Your tank will have items and levels, but needs to blow tp to help before late.

Tank Support - Your tank will be available at all times, but without many items.

Tank Jg - Your tank will get gold and better help in early game, but will be xp deficient.

Tank Mid - Your tank will have items, levels and be nearby, but has trouble laning against standard mid picks.

Tank adc - Your tank is breaking the meta, but is most likely an idiot.

ShinjusukeJul 3, 20161 votes

Considering..

the only really viable tank mid is Swain (unless you count gimmicky crap that shouldn't even exist like Tank Ekko, who usually doesn't even mid)...
going tank Jg, unless they're also tank jg, means that the only way your team doesn't end up having essentially a 4v5 because your jungler is pretty much useless is if you pick something like Amumu/Sej/Nautilus and camp a lane so hard that the enemy team thinks you're fuckin' bear grylls...
Tank support usually robs your team of utility or sustain, and results in a tank that's about as offtanky as your average fighter but is far less of a threat...
As you said, tank ADC is trolling...

Top is the tank role. There's a reason it's been that way literally since like.. halfway through season 1, if as late as that. There's also a reason why both sides tend to have tanky tops, and the team that doesn't have a tanky top (in my experience) tends to lose pretty damn hard.

Top doesn't make a real tradeoff for picking tank. Not in any sort of comparable way to the other roles. Firstpicking a non-tank top is frankly just plain selfish. There's almost no situation where having a non tank top and forcing another role into tanking is actually beneficial for anyone besides the top laner who thinks Zed is a good top pick (or any other such stupid crap).

It's a game, sure. Pick w/e you want, that's the point of the game. To have fun. All I'm saying is pretending Top has been the de facto tank role since the start of the game for any other reason than top is the best place to have a tank is just plain silly. Tons of top laners will pick whatever they want with absolutely no regard for strategy, as they have since the start of the game. My issue is simply with them pretending it's for any other reason than "I want to play this, fuck my team and fuck reasonable teamcomps", that's all. Everyone has every right to pick what they want to play purely cuz they enjoy playing it, but when they act like it's other people's fault that the team doesn't have a crucial role while they themselves refuse to pick said role in the lane best suited for it, it reveals them as having no actual interest in strategy and instead only interest in themselves.

NotSpecialDudeJul 3, 20161 votes

mid cho is a thing but that's kinda irrelevent.

The thing about top is that its the perfect place for both bruisers and tanks. Your reason for tank is fairly solid, but lets give a thought or two bout the latter. A high damage dealer that can take a hit or two but is mostly good at 1v1 bouts. Jax , Pantheon , Irelia , and to a lesser extent Aatrox . These an't the only examples but I want to get to the point. The idea behind a bruiser top is that you plan to split push and apply lots of pressure on your lane. Because there isn't much of value besides baron up top, the jungler won't be hovering over if he wants to win the dragon game.

In this case the team comp is more geared towards having a solid 4v5 group that can sit on the enemy and force them to stay, but avoid a fight entirely.

An example comp : Trundle [top], Annie [mid], Ashe [adc], Braum [support], Zac [jg]

The idea being that the team minus trundle be strong enough to hold a full team long enough for trundle to do massive damage, but also do damage themselves if the team collapses on the trundle.

Top is the best place for tanks no doubt, but tanks aren't the only things that go there.

ShinjusukeJul 5, 20161 votes

Oh yeah, I fully agree. My problem comes from the fact that most (hell I'd venture to say as high as 70-80%) of the "top" mains I meet don't understand teamcomps for shit, and then don't understand why another role doesn't "fill" tank when the top picks something like Pantheon or Jax.

Sure, fighters go there too, but there's a reason all the fighters that go top lane are also junglers. Because Top is the best spot to get a tank from, and most fighters can jungle just as well.

Irelia being an exception, but Irelia's numbers are so overtuned that she can build like tforce and then full tank (which is a meta thing, sure, but it still stands that she's tanky).

Bruisers can go top too. But that means you're robbing your team of a tank, because rather than it being a "you can go tank or bruiser" decision in top lane, going tank in other lanes is more like a "you can go the role that's actually good in this lane or you can completely fuck yourself over".

The only exception to this being potentially braum/leona/thresh/tahm support (all common picks ofc), but even then you don't have a "true" tank, you have a frontline trying to tank carry-level damage on a support-level income, which never works very well.

Either way, you've got a definite point and I appreciated having the discussion.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Ariel the CruelJul 2, 20161 votes

Talon MID: Sup needs to tank. Zed Top: Sup needs to initiate. Quinn Jun: Support needs to peel. MissFortune ADC: Support needs to CC.

[ ] Sup: Um..... En Passant?

AeszarckJul 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5AzOobI9,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2016-07-02T16:36:53.648+0000)

MID: Sup needs to tank. Top: Sup needs to initiate. Jun: Support needs to peel. ADC: Support needs to CC.

[ ] Sup: Um..... En Passant?

Wait, are most tank supports not also initiators that also have peel? Like Alistar or Braum?