Riot, it's time you start talking to us about Cassiopeia and what she really needs.

Canastus··26 votes·5,235 views

http://i.imgur.com/UGPJEcn.png

First of all, let me quote the latest PBE changes:

Aspect of the Serpent (Passive) 100 stack bonus' Twin Fang heal AP ratio reduced to .06 from .1 Twin Fang (E) mana restore on kill reduced to 1.5% from 3% of maximum mana.

You do realize that she's going to lose any sustain she had before, don't you? She won't be able to survive the early to midgame if this goes through.

Cassiopeia herself has one of the weakest laning phases in the game, considering how delayed her powerspike is and how extremely problematic her manacosts are. Also let's not forget how easy she is to gank/camp, that alone is enough to make her useless for the rest of the game. Any retaliation she takes comes with a great cost for her since using her E is almost comparable to casting an ultimate, it's that expensive. It also requires her to overly commit thus making her overextend at all times.

Her itemization doesn't leave any room for actual mana-regen (thanks to her questionable passive), she's entirely dependent on lasthitting minions. And don't get me started on opponents who constantly shove the minion wave under her tower, she's extremely bad at farming under a turret without wasting all of her mana. And no, a Tear alone won't cut it - she still runs out of mana extremely fast without blue buff.

I seriously can't believe that you're going to nerf her again - how many consecutive nerfs did she receive already? What happened to the guy who was supposed to keep working on her, you know, Stashu? And how come champions like Ahri or LeBlanc who are extremely mobile and still overly toxic for their lane-opponent don't get touched at all whereas Cass with her extreme handicaps gets punished for having any strengths at all?

There are so many ways to shut her down and what do you do? You take away whatever solace she had left after all these guttings. She's already a sitting duck, and I fear after these changes she'll be back to her useless 4.16 self without any way of defending herself in lane since she'll be constantly out of resources and unable to fight at all.

I feel most of the people who are complaining about her haven't played her at all, otherwise they'd realize how extremely easy it is to shut her down. Heck, even her ultimate is one of the most unrelible in the entire game since it has a nasty cast-delay which enables you to avoid it with ease by simply clicking behind you - the game actually registers the command before showing the turn-animation thus making you immune against her stun.

Riot, you really need to start taking some feedback, most of all you need to start listening to her dedicated playerbase. Because I guarantee you, after those nerfs she won't see play in a competitive environment for a VERY long time. And we'll be back to the usual Zed/LeBlanc/Ahri matchup, filled with "flashy" plays and lack of need for actual positioning.

Instead of targeting the mobility creep, you're just making it worse for immobile champions. What this game needs are unique and challenging champions like Cassiopeia, they are what makes midlane so diverse right now.

Don't make the same mistakes like you did with the initial rework, I beg of you.

56 Comments

BranchofSin558017 votes

They just need to remove her stupid Twin Fang Machine gun which is both the stupidest and the strongest part of her kit and make her the actual Poison Mage she was supposed to be in the first place.

Canastus11 votes

The rework is definitely the source of her problems, she lost so much diversity regarding her build and playstyle options. Now she's nothing else but a squishy short range ap marksman without any mobility.

At least actual marksmen don't need to pay for their auto-attacks or lifesteal while having access to broken game mechanics like crits.

BranchofSin55807 votes

{quoted}

The rework is definitely the source of her problems, she lost so much diversity regarding her build and playstyle options. Now she's nothing else but a squishy short range ap marksman without any mobility. At least actual marksmen don't need to pay for their auto-attacks or lifesteal while having access to broken game mechanics like criticals.

she was a Twin Fang Machine Gun even before her rework.

I played her way back in Season I.

the rework only gave her a stupid passive which I dislike instead of actually shifting power from her Twin Fang to her Noxious Blast.

That's all I wanted and was failed to deliver.

Sure she is good now, especially in competitive, but the only reason she is good is because she basically hyper-scales halfway through the match for no fucking reason when you get 500 stacks and she deals a fuckton of damage with a spammable, low cost Twin Fang.

The only thing I like about her new passive is the free 25% cdr she gets from it, something that allows me to basically run a full Magic Pen Rune set up on her and replace Sorcs with Lucidity.

But that's about it.

Canastus7 votes

"Low cost Twin Fang"? Sorry but you lost me there. What exactly makes it so cheap for you? It already costs 90 flipping mana.

BranchofSin55805 votes

{quoted}

"Low cost Twin Fang"? Sorry but you lost me there. What exactly makes it so cheap for you? It already costs 90 flipping mana.

If Twin Fang kills the target, refunds its mana cost plus 3% of her maximum mana.

There is no reason not to spam it on everything.

It's not low cost, but it isn't that high either considering you can get a fuckton of mana back in each wave with it.

You have to look at the big picture.

Canastus6 votes

Too bad that bonus becomes pretty much irrelevant during teamfights where the rest of your mates will take all of your cs in lane thus making lasthitting any creeps an extremely hard job. And don't get me started on fighting in the jungle or at any of the bossmonsters (drake/baron) where she's without any source to regain mana.

Cassiopeia remains one of the most problematic champions in regards of mana-management and I feel those upcoming changes are going to turn her life into hell.

BranchofSin55805 votes

{quoted}

Too bad that bonus becomes pretty much irrelevant during teamfights where the rest of your mates will take all of your cs in lane thus making lasthitting any creeps an extremely hard job. And don't get me started on fighting in the jungle or at any of the bossmonsters (drake/baron) where she's without any source to regain mana.

She builds tear, which makes up for it.

Vistha Kai6 votes

No, it doesn't.

Drakzul the Dark1 votes

That shit costs 50 mana at level 1 and 60 at level 2. You don't even hit the 90 mana mark until level 9 if you max it. By then you're already nearing the mid game and should have some mana item that completely negates the cost of all your spells anyway.

A Miss Fortune3 votes

Am I the only one laughing because I imagine Cassiopeia firing a legit machine gun all game long.

If you wanna see Machine Gun Cassiopeia then build Nashor's, Seraph's, and Morell and she'll put AD Lulu to shame.

Canastus5 votes

I wouldn't mind a Rambo styled skin for her, it could turn out quite funny.

Xietnin1 votes

{quoted}

They just need to remove her stupid Twin Fang Machine gun which is both the stupidest and the strongest part of her kit and make her the actual Poison Mage she was supposed to be in the first place.

She's not going to be trading with her Twin Fang as hard with the 100 stack Twin Fang heal anymore if the PBE nerfs pan out. So there's something for you.

AquariusGine6 votes

The only thing satisfying about Cass now is being able to win games..

now she'll be uninteresting and weak

Photos of Ghosts6 votes

Weak laning phase? Am I missing something?

The Queen Viper4 votes

Yes.

Mandang06 votes

What she 'really needs' is meaningful counterplay. Her current pattern is dodge-the-AOE-spear, when that 'spear' is on a short cooldown. (For those of you still hung up on this - I mean that she has the same low risk/high reward poke pattern as Nidalee, where once she hits, she can go all in with full confidence) Riot also said why they're displeased with Urgot's pattern, which I'm sure applies somewhat to Cassiopeia's too.

TheRakkun1 votes

Low CD spells in general, unless it forces you to take a risk like Azir's soldiers requiring him to stay near his soldiers to AA, Velkoz's long recovery times on animations ect.

Mandang02 votes

Well, I don't even think that's the problem. Karthus has short cooldown on Q, but it's not bad because it doesn't lead into anything threatening. Karthus can't land a Q and then go all in because of it. It's the impact of the short cooldown spell that matters, imo.

It's cliche as hell, but it really is risk/reward.

yellowbricks6 votes

Ah, the Cass threads take me back. What a wonderful world we live in where some guy got paid to spurn any sensible snake designs like "weaken enemy with poison" in lieu of his own genius idea that a snake becomes stronger when poisoning enemies, shoehorning a stack mechanic on a champ who really didn't need it.

From his complete radio silence and the fact he hasn't gone in for the kill on another perfectly good champ makes me think he found his true passion in being a butcher. Better he's chopping up meat than any more champions.

G1Radiobot5 votes

Except Cass is well capable of killing you in seconds at almost any point in the game, and is considered to be a terrifying lane bully, while also outscaling everyone save Veigar and Nasus. Most of the fanbase considers her a lane bully, myself and riot included. The whole point of her rework was to make her a late game mage instead of a lane bully.

Richard8 votes

And now they've just turned her into lane-useless, what's a late game?

4D Shadow5 votes

Cass is nerfed. Her Q used to be 80% greater of a range and they reworked her passive. her E sustain is extremely weak. Riot needs to stop playing favorites to the beta players and dominant pro teams and start considering the majority of players input. i miss PRE-RIOT. When champion reworks, ACTUALLY MADE sense, and not some Activision buy-out(blizzard) to appeal to all the unintelligent 12 year olds that can't do simple math.

DanofDemacia4 votes

XD complete bs weak lanng phase. Great waveclear and harass = weak

IcyPepper4 votes

I seriously can't believe that you're going to nerf her again - how many consecutive nerfs did she receive already?

So Cass is the new Sona from season 4?

BestTristMyHaus3 votes

OP and subject makes me think, what Cassi really needs is.... ... ... The "D" Darius

Canastus6 votes

How lewd.

AHeroNamedHawke3 votes

People upvoting "Cass has weak laning"

http://i.imgur.com/na4fSrn.jpg[/img]

The Queen Viper4 votes

Yup, she has.

AHeroNamedHawke2 votes

{quoted}

Yup, she has.

No, she doesn't

She's famous in high elo for killing people at level 2 by landing a Q and mashing E + ignite or ghosting at you

The Queen Viper4 votes

Yes she was, before the Rework that is... now you just go oom. And (bad) players who just let you spam E into their face don't belong to the high elo in the first place.

AHeroNamedHawke1 votes

{quoted}

Yes she was, before the Rework that is... now you just go oom. And (bad) players who just let you spam E into their face don't belong to the high elo in the first place.

Ah yes, the "all high elo players are just bad I'm actually the best player in the world and X isnt OP" argument

I'm not sure why I bothered

Xietnin2 votes

Yeah, with such heavy Q costs for pushing lanes, it helps to be able to push with an autoattack-twinfang early against anyone that can and should push Cass' turret in. We all are aware that W is no pushing tool, and all she's gonna be left with is begging for blue and going all-or-nothing on the enemy just to be able to compete with farm and mana costs. I reiterate, some Cass players are probably gonna have to almost give up farming with spells just to compensate here. Bottom-line, I've found Twin Fang last-hitting to be efficient/worthwhile at around 100-200 stacksitem 3070(Depending on how far in levels I am with mana per level). Q takes a lot of mana for iffy push power. Tear is the go-to now, the new go-to will probably still be tear, but she will be fumbling mana and health potions early now.

BluePolarizer2 votes

Cassiopeia is the strongest lane bully in the game because she's a scaling lane bully. What are you talking about.

The Queen Viper4 votes

She's not a lane bully bro... hasn't been since the Rework.

AbsoluteSadman2 votes

Except she wins any trade if she lands a single q or w.

The Queen Viper4 votes

Depends who she's up against... and her mana pool can't handle harassing during the early game, which is why people have to rush Tear.

Baron of Bread2 votes

My experience with playing Cassiopeia so far has been that she isn't difficult (not easy, but not that hard), she lanes okay, and even if I get shut down I can still carry as soon as the game hits 30 minutes. Mana problems? I play Anivia and Ryze, and Cassiopeia is better off than them (not by a ton, but mana back makes a difference).

Sure, these nerfs are probably going a bit overboard. However, I think she really did need some changes.

Rinky Dinky2 votes

Cassiopeia herself has one of the weakest laning phases in the game

No, not at all. At least not currently.

The Queen Viper4 votes

Out of all the current popular mage champs, she's quite weak early.

AbsoluteSadman2 votes

"Weak laning phase"

Hahahaha

The Queen Viper4 votes

Yup. She has a weak early compared to other popular mages.

AbsoluteSadman2 votes

All the people who have actually played against a cass early game are getting downvoted to oblivion.

Cass is fine, shes going to be fine, stop begging for buffs for this lane bully hyper carry burst sustained damage powerhouse.

Abyssphere5 votes

{quoted}

All the people who have actually played against a cass early game are getting downvoted to oblivion.

Cass is fine, shes going to be fine, stop begging for buffs for this lane bully hyper carry burst sustained damage powerhouse.

Why does everyone in Cass threads refuse to actually read the OP? Every single time it's the same - "Cass is OP, stop asking for buffs, they already buffed her". This isn't about wanting buffs, we know she's strong.

This thread exists because the things they're nerfing are her mana + health sustain, two obnoxious things that were never in her kit before the rework and yet form the basis of the rework (mana sustain is needed because her old passive is gone, health sustain is needed because Cass is useless in fights if she is not putting herself in danger due to her poke being non-existent). It's no surprise that they're nerfing those things because they're incredibly difficult to play against - she becomes basically impossible to force out of lane due to their existence. But we don't want Riot to just nerf these obnoxious, toxic things in her kit and leave her be - we want them to remove unhealthy things and give her actually healthy mechanics instead.

I don't want Cass to be buffed. To be honest, she could stand to be nerfed. But nobody who likes Cass wants her to be nerfed and then ignored until she becomes too strong again, then nerfed. We want her to be given meaningful change that will make her better to lane against, more fun to play, and more healthy to be in the meta when she's strong. Is that too much to ask? Is that really unreasonable?

AbsoluteSadman2 votes

I dont disagree with wanting the rework reverted but it wont happen because riot is stupid.

So really the only route they see is nerf her to shit so shes forgotten.

It sucks but its how riots gonna deal with it.

TheRakkun1 votes

They're trying to force her into Arch Angels build and away from RoA because Riot doesn't seem to like tanky Mages RIP Ryze Cassiopeia

Canastus5 votes

Cass never built RoA after her rework, neither did anyone else during MSI. That's not the issue here.

FuIlmute All1 votes

Damn. This OP got all the downvote bots ready for anybody that doesn't agree LOL

Cass is strong as fk and she by no means has a weak laning phase

Get rekt baddie, send your downvote bots my way.

Tengrichan1 votes

Sorry to burst your bubble but she has infinite sustain in lane which means you actually GAIN more mana than spend with Twin Fangs while you gain HP at the same time.It's ridiculous.She is supposed to be gated by mana but actually she is not. There are several champions in the game who are not gated by mana and those should get nerfs,Cass happened to be one after the rework.

Puri Puri Taric1 votes

what she needs is an anus so she can poop.

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