buffing rageblade and bork in the same patch.

Critmaster Garen·Nov 9, 2016·2 votes·1,527 views

this isnt going to go horribly wrong.

whats the purpose of buffing bork to the old op status anyways? its not like youre also going to remove to compensate.

22 Comments

PermabannedGarenNov 9, 20163 votes

God, will you shut up? Yi and on-hit champions in general have needed help since devourer's removal.

Critmaster GarenNov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

God, will you shut up?

no.

i dont have any problem with seing yi or rageblade buffed, but can you admit that bork doesnt need a buff right now? the item is situational, not weak. especially not when rageblade gets buffed anyways which is effectively a buff to bork already.

Sightless66Nov 9, 20162 votes

can you admit that bork doesnt need a buff right now? the item is situational, not weak

Nah, don't think I can agree. It's weak enough that it's only even decent in extremely unrealistic situations (4 or more health stacking enemies, and you're playing an unusually attack speed reliant champion). Against the vast majority of real teams you'll actually face, it's strictly worse than other options. Even in the extreme scenarios, it's not even necessarily better than other options: just equal at best.

especially not when rageblade gets buffed anyways which is effectively a buff to bork already.

Meh. Rageblade is still quite situational in its own right. With Fervor no longer supporting it, I'm not convinced it won't be an even weaker option than it was before. Taking one very sitautional, very mediocre item and making it reliant on another situational item isn't a recipe for success. Most of the champions who might want BotRK won't want rageblade unless it is blatantly overpowered. BotRK should have the ability to stand on its own, and right now, it absolutely doesn't.

I could see an argument for going to 7% or 7.5 instead of 8%, or buffing something else instead of the on-hit damage, but I see no justification for leaving the item this weak.

PermabannedGarenNov 9, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=50Vwwyva,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-11-09T18:08:14.965+0000)

no.

i dont have any problem with seing yi or rageblade buffed, but can you admit that bork doesnt need a buff right now?

Why would I lie?

The item is a strictly inferior option on almost every champion.

the item is situational, not weak. especially not when rageblade gets buffed anyways which is effectively a buff to bork already.

Afraid not.

Also, you don't play on-hit champions, do you?

You think people are going to waste seven thousand gold on two damage items which give no defensive stats (except some lifesteal) on squishy, sustained damage melee champions?

Especially when they also tend to get Bloodrazor, which both fits that description above, and also would bring Yi for example's attack speed above the 2.5 cap when highlander is active?

No for real. Name the champions you believe will be suddenly stacking rageblade and bork now.

ProfDrDeathNov 9, 20161 votes

We might agree to disagree on that sentiment.

However, after the Fervor changes in 6.22, on-hit champions definitely need some love - while, at the same time, moving Fervor away from on-hit effects allows allows for Rageblade to be somewhat buffed.

AHarmlessTacoNov 9, 20161 votes

Warwick Rework incoming Kog'maw doesn't exist Vayne builds crit now Ferver nerfs

Critmaster GarenNov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Warwick Rework incoming Kog'maw doesn't exist Vayne builds crit now Ferver nerfs

which explains the rageblade buffs, but there is still no reason to buff bork along with it.

bork fulflills the same function as item 3075 in this game. its supposed to prevent extreme cases of health stacking teams. i dont see this game having a problem with 5 man tank teams lately.

AHarmlessTacoNov 9, 20161 votes

I never see anyone build BotRK as it is, and I don't think the... 2%?... boost will really help it that much. I mean, tanks are pretty much being destroyed by last whisper anyways so maybe they will roll this out and then roll out some tank item buffs.

Critmaster GarenNov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I never see anyone build BotRK as it is

because we dont have a problem with extreme tanky teams. bork isnt an item that is supposed to be standart in champion builds. it becomes more important when people are running full tank/bruiser teams.

just as thornmail is supposed to prevent full ad carry teams.

the reason why bork is shit right now, is that damage in general is so over the top that its simply not needed. so why buff tank shredding items, when tanks already get shredded?

and tank items arent getting stat buffs like damage items. those tank/bruiser item buffs are only cost reductions. they wont make tanks or bruisers be able to tank more damage.

AHarmlessTacoNov 9, 20161 votes

ACTUALLY. It is kind of 2-fold.

On ADCs, BotRK is designed to be an anti-tank item and kiting tool. On bruisers, BotRK is designed to be an independently scaling damage item and chasing tool.

Currently, ADC's will not opt for BotRK because they deal so much damage anyways. However, bruisers who should be buying it aren't doing so hot. Hence, it is likely getting buffs for their sake. See Shyvana.

Critmaster GarenNov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

ACTUALLY. It is kind of 2-fold.

On ADCs, BotRK is designed to be an anti-tank item and kiting tool. On bruisers, BotRK is designed to be an independently scaling damage item and chasing tool.

Currently, ADC's will not opt for BotRK because they deal so much damage anyways. However, bruisers who should be buying it aren't doing so hot. Hence, it is likely getting buffs for their sake. See Shyvana.

adc have item 3034 as their standart option to fight tanky targets now. which presents an additional problem with buffing bork back to its old value.

bork is really just there as a backup for extreme cases. the problem is, last time it was this strong, a lot of champions, and mainly adc built it independent of matchup. it was such an all purpose item that theyd just rush it or build it second or third item, even when there werent tanky targets on the enemy team.

and then there is the issue of phantom hits being added since then, and a strong rageblade in combnation with a strong bork being most likely completely broken.

AHarmlessTacoNov 9, 20161 votes

I mean, given the two parameters I listed for ADCs and Bruisers, I do agree that it is a far too universally good item when it is overtuned. However, it only really got nerfs because of Kog'maw so I don't think you'll see it being too good post-buff. I mean honestly, who do you think is going to buy it when item 3031 item 3085 item 3036 item 3072 item 3046 exists? Even if they have tanks, it is overkill to buy BotRK on top of LDR. It would literally put the ADC at a disadvantage I think. MAYBE as a Bloodthirster replacement, but otherwise I doubt it'll see crazy amounts of play.

DeathBurstNov 9, 20161 votes

Well, maybe, but on the other hand, the 2 items really needed that buff independently.

Critmaster GarenNov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Well, maybe, but on the other hand, the 2 items really needed that buff independently.

bork didnt. the only purpose of that item is to come into play when teams get too tanky. right now we have the opposite problem.

WarlockLawNov 9, 20161 votes

I've seen teams go 3 tanks, I've also seen botrk do awful against those teams. Botrk needed a buff, it was garbage. Even before Vayne started building crit, she had already stopped rushing botrk because it just underperformed compared to other rush items on her. Shyvana and Jax both have dropped it from their core builds entirely in favor of other things as well. It got nerfed too hard way back, now they are trying to make it worthwhile again.

Critmaster GarenNov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I've seen teams go 3 tanks, I've also seen botrk do awful against those teams. Botrk needed a buff, it was garbage. Even before Vayne started building crit, she had already stopped rushing botrk because it just underperformed compared to other rush items on her. Shyvana and Jax both have dropped it from their core builds entirely in favor of other things as well. It got nerfed too hard way back, now they are trying to make it worthwhile again.

my point is that a rageblade buff is already enough of a buff for bork, as they would be built together in these situations.

i wish they were as hesitant with damage buffs as they are with buffs to defensive items, where most of the time they just shave a 100 gold off instead of making these items better at what theyre supposed to do. but when they think defensive items are too strong, they dont raise the price but just nerf their stats.

defensive itemization has ben washed down to be almost useless in season 6 this way. i dont see them buffing the as slow aura of frozen heart.

WarlockLawNov 9, 20161 votes

My point is that botrk is so awful, and rageblade so niche that a buff to rageblade doesn't impact botrk. The champs that used to build sated devour have never picked up this rageblade, and can't really afford to pick up both it and botrk. Without these changes attack speed/onhit champs like Shyvana would likely just pick up Guinsoo's Rageblade and Bloodrazor (far better for dps than botrk) and botrk still wouldn't be bought.

Vayne won't consider either because of her crit build. Kog adc is still trash. Trist is better off with the same standard crit adc build. Jax will still want gunblade more. Shyvana top might consider that item combo, but her jungle probably won't. Attack speed Udyr might do well with it, but that's a suishy build for him.

Meep ManNov 9, 20161 votes

Warwick likes

paperbIadeNov 15, 20161 votes

jax needs some item buffs

Critmaster GarenNov 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Win Haha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=50Vwwyva,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-11-15T22:06:50.552+0000)

jax needs some item buffs

why does everyone take this personally as if i dont want their champions seing a buff?

i think the item doesnt need to and shouldnt get buffed. especially with how much damage there is in this game already, and theyre buffing rageblade in the same patch, which already increases the synergy between those 2 items.

i didnt say jax shouldnt get buffed.

i mean, the fuck does a bork buff do for you, when it also buffs the champions youre struggling against anyways?

paperbIadeNov 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=50Vwwyva,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-11-15T22:10:08.161+0000)

why does everyone take this personally as if i dont want their champions seing a buff?

i think the item doesnt need to and shouldnt get buffed. especially with how much damage there is in this game already, and theyre buffing rageblade in the same patch, which already increases the synergy between those 2 items.

i didnt say jax shouldnt get buffed.

i mean, the fuck does a bork buff do for you, when it also buffs the champions youre struggling against anyways?

fervor of battle was changed and some brusiers that relies on attack speed could use this item

Critmaster GarenNov 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Win Haha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=50Vwwyva,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-11-15T22:15:29.846+0000)

fervor of battle was changed and some brusiers that relies on attack speed could use this item

then look into those guys who are actually suffering from it. because it was changed, not nerfed for everyone who uses it.

all im asking for is to chill out with the damage buffs. the last time bork was this strong, it was overpowered, and back then there were no phantom hits or giant slayer to add on top of it.

we already have the problem that the only way to build halfway tanky anymore is to stack health. whats going to happen when bork is going to be a common buy even against squishies again?