The Rylai's Changes- 20% Flat Slow Across the Line (Who is Nerfed?)

Meep Man·Nov 23, 2016·14 votes·3,072 views

These are the core users of Rylai's nerfed by the slow change to Rylai's (the stat changes I see more as a neutral change since I would presume it's getting cheaper as well).

Nerfed:

Most Rylai's users were nerfed by it, but these are the main ones I can think of that have their primary spell(s) they used Rylai's on nerfed in Rylai's effectiveness. The following champions are champions that need an eye kept on when the Rylai's changes are implemented.

EDIT: and are also up here

EDIT 2: A remind that the slow from Rylai's for Pet Attacks, DoT, and Multi-Hit abilities was left untouched.

87 Comments

Critmaster GarenNov 23, 201623 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Toast Lord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u48iJ56,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-23T18:31:08.927+0000)

These are the core users of Rylai's nerfed by the slow change to Rylai's (the stat changes I see more as a neutral change since I would presume it's getting cheaper as well).

Nerfed:

Most Rylai's users were nerfed by it, but these are the main ones I can think of that have their primary spell(s) they used Rylai's on nerfed in Rylai's effectiveness. The following champions are champions that need an eye kept on when the Rylai's changes are implemented.

Mordekaiser needs compensation Amumu doesnt need shit. he has enough cc in his own kit AurelionSol his entire design is problematic imo Azir up for a minor rework, rylais was abusive on him anyways Karthus should hit his wall if the wants to stick or kite. abused rylais as aimbot with his e to hit his q against slow champions. add the grounded debuff to enemies stuck in his wall to give him a way to outplay hypermobile champions. Kennen doesnt really need it. Rumble might want to learn to hit his e for slows to stick Syndra LMFAO Viktor hit your gravity field, scrublord. you dont need rylais. Vladimir still to be seen how the nerf affects him. probably needs compensation for the stat nerf Xerath fuck no Ziggs are you kidding?

Meep ManNov 23, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u48iJ56,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-23T18:38:15.889+0000)

needs compensation doesnt need shit. he has enough cc in his own kit his entire design is problematic imo up for a minor rework, rylais was abusive on him aswell should hit his wall if the wants to stick or kite. abused rylais as aimbot with his e. add the grounded debuff to enemies stuck in his wall to give him a way to outplay hypermobile champions doesnt really need it might want to learn to hit his e for slows LMFAO hit your gravity field, scrublord. you dont need rylais. still to be seen how the nef affects him. probably needs compensation for the stat nerf fuck no are you kidding?

And to quote:

The following champions are champions that need an eye kept on when the Rylai's changes are implemented.

As in, we need to look at them. Not take immediate action (except for maybe Morde and Aurelion, maybe Viktor)

Critmaster GarenNov 23, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Toast Lord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u48iJ56,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-11-23T18:40:10.819+0000)

And to quote:

As in, we need to look at them. Not take immediate action (except for maybe Morde and Aurelion, maybe Viktor)

i really disagree with some of the champions on that list though. especially with the artillery mages like ziggs and xerath.

Meep ManNov 23, 20163 votes

Xerath actually gets a heavy benefit from it due to it making his ult much easier to land consecutive shots.

Critmaster GarenNov 23, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Toast Lord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u48iJ56,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-23T18:46:32.681+0000)

Xerath actually gets a heavy benefit from it due to it making his ult much easier to land consecutive shots.

i think the issue is with xerath ult in this case. he should not be incentivised to get rylais.

id say he could just use a damage buff on his ult shots, to give him a bit more reward by coordinating himself with his team. meaning other teammates ccing targets to make the ult easier to land for him.

Meep ManNov 23, 20162 votes

Why not? He actually has naturally synergy with it in his kit unlike some Mages that get it.

Critmaster GarenNov 23, 20169 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Toast Lord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u48iJ56,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-23T18:50:01.810+0000)

Why not? He actually has naturally synergy with it in his kit unlike some Mages that get it.

artillery mages are desiged around being vulnerable to being engaged on as their balace point to their long range damage spam.

rylais both makes them more tanky and a lot harder to catch than they should be.

really in a lot of cases of the champions you listed, the main issue is that their players have to relearn to work with the inbuilt cc mechanics in these champions kits instead of getting aimbot in item form and have the item auto kite for them.

Meep ManNov 23, 20162 votes

Never the less, Xerath is a possible user of Rylai's right now.

NarasimhaNov 24, 20164 votes

The problem is everyone is a Rylai's user right now. It shouldn't be a one-size-fits-all item. It should be used for kiting and/or for the health boost. The PBE changes are a good step.

xxxMadLionxxxNov 23, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u48iJ56,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-23T18:38:15.889+0000)

needs compensation doesnt need shit. he has enough cc in his own kit his entire design is problematic imo up for a minor rework, rylais was abusive on him aswell should hit his wall if the wants to stick or kite. abused rylais as aimbot with his e. add the grounded debuff to enemies stuck in his wall to give him a way to outplay hypermobile champions doesnt really need it might want to learn to hit his e for slows LMFAO hit your gravity field, scrublord. you dont need rylais. still to be seen how the nef affects him. probably needs compensation for the stat nerf fuck no are you kidding?

All that nice and all, but when can land any of those abilities on the like of the follwoing without Rylies, we could talk.... Ahri Ekko Katarina Kalista Fizz Zed Yasuo

Critmaster GarenNov 23, 201621 votes

{quoted}

All that nice and all, but when can land any of those abilities on the like of the follwoing without Rylies, we could talk....

rylais doesnt counter those champions. it enforces them as picks.

the item hits low mobility champions unproportionally harder than highly mobile champions to the point where its abusive against them.

youd understand if youve ever been nailed to the ground between a sivir with mallet and a xerath spamming rylais slows on his q on a slow champion.

slows dont stop dashes, blinks, jumps and other hard mobility tools, which makes hypermobile champs a counterpick to a permaslow dominated meta, not the other way round.

Big LincolnNov 23, 20161 votes

there is nothing wrong with aurelion, the heck?

Critmaster GarenNov 23, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u48iJ56,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2016-11-23T18:55:51.688+0000)

there is nothing wrong with aurelion, the heck?

hes kindof binary. he gets completely destroyed by certain champions with mobility and destroys certain other champions by passively zoning them from cs.

he was nerfed a couple times for good reason. im on the fence when it comes to him, but i dont think the idea of his orbiting stars is working out very well overall.

plus, its again just the same situation.

rylais on aurelion wont help him deal with mobile assassins who jump past his stars. it just craps on slower champions who get caught in a permaslow.

AirKingNeoNov 23, 20161 votes

Kayle Got her compensation on Rageblade, BoRK, and upcoming Fervor buffs. Still building it.

SanctimoniousNov 23, 20161 votes

She was one of the original champions that used the item. Botrk isn't that great on her (It's pretty overrated), and the buffs were to compensate for Fervor nerfs. (She lost 1250 damage per second.)

Hard to say what the rylai's nerfs will do, most people build it third item on her. recon that she may need a little bit of a tune up on her Q or something.

Big Daddy HuskNov 24, 20162 votes

112 damage per hit at max stacks, assuming she has max attack speed (which she won't) that's 10 attacks every 4 seconds. If every other hit is a phantom hit because of rageblade, that would be 1680 physical damage in 4 seconds, or 420 damage per second from fervor, and that's not including things like resists from fervor. Then take 150 damage off of that, as that is how much the new fervor gives her in physical damage at max attack speed, and you have a net loss of 270 damage per second in the best case scenario. Now onto the Rylai's nerf. As someone who plays a lot of Kayle, this Rylai's nerf is actually a buff in my opinion for her as now she will actually not be kitted to death by all the mages that outrange her atm.

SanctimoniousNov 24, 20161 votes

Kayle Pre-nerf was building max Attack Speed. Berserk + Nashor's + Rageblade + Runaan's + Wits +30% from runes So you include Rageblade but you leave out the Runaan's procs in a teamfight setting. That's 1120 on two side targets.

The reality is, between 10 Autos with fervor Kayle got 1120 damage in Physical, 560 Magic damage (Rageblade Converts it to magic), 1120 on two side targets.

280 Physical Damage + 140 Magical (Phantom hit) + 280 x2 (Side Targets) 840 Physical damage, 140 Magic damage (average) = 980. About a thousand DPS from old Fervor.


The best case scenario for new fervor is MUCH less, considering it takes longer to stack and doesn't synergize with rageblade or runaan's. For simplicity, going to assume 2.5 attack speed for a comparison. 

600 Physical Damage, 240 Magic Damage. (Assuming phantom hit,  you get an extra 120 from it) Assuming Runaan's, you have .4 Crit 840 + 260 best case for single target.  210 + 240 Magic damage per side targets. 

150 Damage + 60 (+ 30 Phantom) and 52.5 + 60 to side targets. 
150 + 90 Magic damage, and 52 + 60

With those numbers, the DPS is significantly lower over time.  We can do this again assuming 100% critical, giving the new fervor a better shot. (Even though Kayle doesn't like Critical)

1,500 Damage, 360 Magic damage. With Runaan's, side hits will do 375 + 240
375 + 90 , 93.75 + 60

Best case scenario, 
280 + 140, 280 (Old Fervor) 
375 + 90, 93.75 + 60 (New, Best Case with 100% crit, and IE)
150 + 90, 52 + 60 (Same build as before)

It would be considerably better if it stacked with Abilities again, and had 8 max stacks. It's just outclassed even further in practice. TLD or SRS.

Considering Rylai's, It's definitely a situational and playstyle dependant item. A number of mages came out of the MYMU and made great use of it. Though, you can't deny that Kayle didn't make extremely good use out of it with the Runaan's + Rylai's synergy. It's a nerf to her teamfight control, and pick potential. I think it's really dependant on where you play her. I think when you look at it, it's a pretty okay buff for Mid Kayle, and a nerf to her Top.

Big Daddy HuskNov 24, 20161 votes

First off, she didn't lose all of that dps, only the fervor bit. In your comment you said she lost 1250 damage per second, which is just not true. That was how much she could do in a perfect scenario, and yes she lost some of it but not all of it. Secondly, in what world do you live were you can get off the perfect teamfight damage when we have control mages like Viktor and supports like Zyra kiting you in teamfights with Rylai's? People aren't always standing together, and if they are they have some pretty good crowd control to keep you from doing your max dps.

ChaddyFantomeNov 23, 20169 votes

item 3070 Singed Rumble Malzahar

Pandemic PunchNov 23, 20162 votes

Yep, I wanted to say Malz. Singed is a reallllly big one too.

Edit: Actually, those two may not be any different since their primary abilities are DOT and multi-target.

ChaddyFantomeNov 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=I mute all of U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u48iJ56,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-11-23T18:58:23.118+0000)

Yep, I wanted to say Malz. Singed is a reallllly big one too.

Edit: Actually, those two may not be any different since their primary abilities are DOT and multi-target.

I thought you said it was decreased across the board?

Pandemic PunchNov 23, 20167 votes

He said it is 20% across the board but DOT and multi target spells are already at 20% :D

ChaddyFantomeNov 23, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=I mute all of U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u48iJ56,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-23T19:11:43.083+0000)

He said it is 20% across the board but DOT and multi target spells are already at 20% :D

oh, i read it as Lowered by 20% across the board. My bad.

Sire HippingtonNov 23, 20163 votes

non of those 3 will be impacted by the slow changes to much, as they use mostly dots/minions that already only have a 20% slow

EschetonNov 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You realize Singed benefits right? Slow is the same and he is 600 gold closer to liandry.

TalisidNov 23, 20165 votes

Mid lane Zyra got hit. Not that anybody plays her in mid anymore.

TequilaZombieNov 24, 20161 votes

She does have a Snare and a Knock Up. I'm honestly not sad that she lost extra CC.

HazyCloud7Nov 23, 20165 votes

It's not much of a nerf to Syndra, she's one of the champions that built it because it was so incredibly efficient. Already has an AoE stun and an AoE slow in her kit and she'll find something else to replace it with.

LankPantsNov 24, 20161 votes

It is a nerf to Syndra because there aren't other efficient AP items. She doesn't have anything else to replace it with, outside of Rylai's, Voidstaff, Morello's and Protobelt AP items are pretty garbage. At best she replaces it with Luden's and takes a huge power hit because Luden's is a garbage item, at worst mages outside of Tear users just fall off the face of the earth because their itemisation is absolutely abysmal.

HazyCloud7Nov 24, 20163 votes

I think that's more of an issue for AP itemization in general. Ludens is definitely really underwhelming...and deathcap's build path + combine cost is pretty rough.

agbudarNov 23, 20165 votes

most of the ones that you listed are actually fine without and tbh makes them "opressive"

lets face it you get hit even once by a Cassiopeia with item 3116 is total bs no escape. Mordekaiser however whom's kit was designed around rylai's being the first rush item....

well lets just say i've always disagreed with champions being designed around items. it should be the other way around.

flibitydooNov 24, 20161 votes

his kit was never designed around rylais being the first rush item.

the original morde was around back when DFG existed as well as hextech gunblade. He relied on stacking a bunch of ap (and some spellvamp to make up for health costs) and then exploding his targets using dfg+a lot of ap for the ghost while being tanky because damage dealt=shield. Later on he built Will of the ancients when that item existed (or gunblade) as his bursting was a lot weaker. Then he got reworked in the juggernaut patch. He built trinity force after the rework despite it giving mana to a manaless champion because his 3rd q did 9x damage and could oneshot people and trinity force helped with that. The original "gotta rush some spellvamp" issue was solved with his W providing sustain pre-6 which was something he was lacking. then he got nerfed/partially reverted and he was kinda stuck in the gutter for a while. AD botlane morde was functionally dead so the only people playing him were the diehard morde mains who stuck with ye-olde ap solo-lane morde builds. Then the mid year magic update happened and people started picking up rylais on ~~everyone~~ morde and here we have the current iteration of mordekaiser. his kit was never designed around rylais being the first rush item. The original kit was built on spellvamp and ap items, and the his rework was built around juggernaut items.

agbudarNov 24, 20163 votes

im talking current morde.

and morde before his rework went through a lot of phases. from health regen tank to pure AP monster to sustain bruiser to whatever the meta required of him. im talking CertainlyT Mordekaiser rework here.

Zorae42Nov 23, 20163 votes

You need to remove practically all of those. The slow nerf is only to single target, non-DOT spells.

So: Mordekaiser Vladimir Nidalee ... And that's it really. Some of the others have single target spells, but they weren't grabbing the slow for those.

Maybe AurelionSol since I don't know if his stars count as AE or not.

Meep ManNov 23, 20164 votes

The slow is also a nerf to AoE, which also applied a 40% slow

Champion SkinNov 24, 20161 votes

Instant AoE abilities slows for 40% currently and thus they will be nerfed... examples Mordekaiser E, Vladimir E, Nidalee cougar W and E...

QuephaNov 23, 20162 votes

Cassiopeia.

Critmaster GarenNov 23, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Cassiopeia.

movement speed on her q, aoe slow/grounded on her w, aoe stun on her ult. she has tools to stick and kite.

like i said. the issue isnt that a lot of these champions are losing rylais as an item, but that their players have to relearn to hit skillshots. because rilays passive slows have made hitting their abilities downright braindead for an entire season.

QuephaNov 23, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u48iJ56,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-11-23T19:11:32.873+0000)

movement speed on her q, aoe slow/grounded on her w, aoe stun on her ult.

like i said. the issue isnt that a lot of these champions are losing rylais as an item, but that their players have to relearn to hit skillshots. because rilays passive slows have made hitting their abilities downright braindead.

You realize that hitting skillshots is not a single player game? When the opponent is slowed by half as much then they also have more leeway to get out of the way of the Q. Dodge the Q and Cass doesn't have her movespeed (and she is generally at a disadvantage without it due to her passive) The W slow isn't always applicable and her ult is not always up.

Cassiopeia is affected strongly by the nerf.

Critmaster GarenNov 23, 20164 votes

{quoted}

You realize that hitting skillshots is not a single player game? When the opponent is slowed by half as much then they also have more leeway to get out of the way of the Q. Dodge the Q and Cass doesn't have her movespeed (and she is generally at a disadvantage without it due to her passive) The W slow isn't always applicable and her ult is not always up.

Cassiopeia is affected strongly by the nerf.

its called counterplay. srry that your damage spam from range isnt 100% reliable, and you actually have to hit your w to follow with q and e spam.

cassiopeia is one of the champions who needs compensation for rylais the least, since she even has a tool to outplay mobile champions, and prevent enemies from even flashing.

QuephaNov 23, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u48iJ56,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-23T19:18:45.521+0000)

its called counterplay. srry that your damage spam from range isnt 100% reliable, and you actually have to hit your w to follow with q and e spam.

cassiopeia is one of the champions who needs compensation for rylais the least, since she even has a tool to outplay mobile champions, and prevent enemies from even flashing.

Are you arguing that adding counterplay where there previously was none is not a nerf?

Critmaster GarenNov 23, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Are you arguing that adding counterplay where there previously was not is not a nerf?

it is a nerf if you dont manage to hit your abilities on their own.

it makes no difference to someone whos playing her and can aim that gigantic aoe on her w.

QuephaNov 23, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u48iJ56,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-23T19:25:08.757+0000)

it is a nerf if you dont manage to hit your abilities on their own.

it makes no difference to someone whos playing her and can aim that gigantic aoe on her w.

Even the best Cass players miss her skillshots from time to time so by your logic it is still a nerf to all Cass players.

Supreme Senpai69Nov 24, 20165 votes

She was one of the main reasons Ryalis's got the nerf to begin with. She abused it and while affected by the nerf, that isn't even remotely a bad thing

QuephaNov 24, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u48iJ56,comment-id=0004000000000001,timestamp=2016-11-24T01:38:21.365+0000)

She was one of the main reasons Ryalis's got the nerf to begin with. She abused it and while affected by the nerf, that isn't even remotely a bad thing

So what you're saying is that Cassiopeia is overall going to be much weaker after this nerf?

Supreme Senpai69Nov 24, 20164 votes

Yea dude it was a very slight nerf to Cassiopeia. Nobody is arguing otherwise. This thread is about how some champions will be underpowered after the nerf to Rylai's. Cassiopeia is most certainly not going to be. Her E is unaffected by the change as it is a DoT, the only thing affected is her Q

WeatheredNov 24, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Toast Lord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4u48iJ56,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-23T18:31:08.927+0000)

Nerfed:

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fopenclipart.org%2Fimage%2F2400px%2Fsvg_to_png%2F222252%2Ffeels.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fopenclipart.org%2Fdetail%2F222252%2Fsad-frog-feels-bad-man-meme&docid=Drtxw_BQKSanDM&tbnid=MHo1PfhZkL5soM%3A&vet=1&w=2400&h=2400&client=safari&bih=920&biw=1918&ved=0ahUKEwi39qO0vcDQAhWs34MKHUd1DdwQMwgzKAEwAQ&iact=mrc&uact=8

Zykklon BNov 23, 20161 votes

My boy Singed

Bye item 3151 item 3116

Time to go full fuking tank af

Critmaster GarenNov 23, 20169 votes

{quoted}

My boy

Bye

Time to go full fuking tank af

you are aware this interaction still works even with a slightly reduced slow?

plus, the slow to multi hit/dot abilities wasnt even touched. and dont forget than in cases where rylais is used against him, it affects him less aswell.

Meep ManNov 23, 20165 votes

Singed will still rush Rylai's since the slow on it for him wasn't touched.