Cassipeia

VoraciousX·Jan 17, 2017·2 votes·771 views

Why does her W stop so far in front of her? I feel it's impossible to use her vs the people she's actually meant to counter simply because they either dash onto me before I can get it off, and then I have to use it afterward in front of me, allowing them to dash onto me again before I can actually get to my poison trail and kill me if I didn't snowball beforehand and shut them out of the game. The only time I feel my W is actually useful is when I use my ult, and since my ult is on a(I know this is necessary) high cooldown, I feel like my W is as well. Why can't you cast the W anywhere within it's range? It makes no sense to me.

16 Comments

rtbf221651412Jan 17, 20172 votes

I liked her old W. I felt like her new one was a nerf.

VoraciousXJan 17, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I liked her old W. I felt like her new one was a nerf.

I like her new one, just the fact that it has a minimum cast range so far ahead of her is kind of terrible. It can't be used for what it's meant to be used for(grounding champions, at least some). It feels like her W is only useful when her ult is up. which means she basically has one ult and one mini ult.

Leo1024Jan 17, 20171 votes

she can be hard in the melee matchups but it's not too bad once you learn Cass, if it's someone like Yasuo or Zed you might need your sums or ult at least to fight but poking is where you're strongest

VoraciousXJan 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

she can be hard in the melee matchups but it's not too bad once you learn Cass, if it's someone like Yasuo or Zed you might need your sums or ult at least to fight but poking is where you're strongest

It was vs an Akali. Once she got 6 her ult range seemed farther than my W range, meaning I couldn't use the ground mechanic to keep her off me, and when she did get on me, I couldn't use it to keep her from sticking to me.

Leo1024Jan 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It was vs an Akali. Once she got 6 her ult range seemed farther than my W range, meaning I couldn't use the ground mechanic to keep her off me, and when she did get on me, I couldn't use it to keep her from sticking to me.

oh then that sucks, i've always hated akali because she just mindlessly spams R to cancel your flash or whatever and it has no cooldown

QuephaJan 18, 20171 votes

Who do you think she's supposed to counter?

I think she's supposed to counter Juggernauts and serve as a team's carry when protected. She deals high sustained magic dps when most tanks only have itemize against physical dps while /laugh'ing at mages' puny attempts to burst them, she has massive kiting potential with the speed boost on her Q, especially after she builds a Rylai's, and once she gets her build rolling she has a massive mana pool and a solid amount of life sustain that allows her to keep the dps flowing until everyone on the enemy team has died.

What I see a lot of people say is that she's supposed to counter assassins and other highly mobile champions because she has the 'grounded' debuff and I 100% disagree with this sentiment. The main way to stop a dps champion is to burst them down before their lifesteal (in Cassiopeia's case her E life sustain) can kick in to keep them healthy, so Cassiopeia should not be completely immune to that type of assault. She has tools to deal with those types of champions, sure, but for her to be balanced she should only attain the status of 'hard' to assassinate instead of 'impossible.' Miasma with a minimum cast radius allows her to set up a big "no-no zone" for enemies or lock down a mobile champion if they are caught by her unawares.

VoraciousXJan 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Who do you think she's supposed to counter?

I think she's supposed to counter Juggernauts and serve as a team's carry when protected. She deals high sustained magic dps when most tanks only have itemize against physical dps while /laugh'ing at mages' puny attempts to burst them, she has massive kiting potential with the speed boost on her Q, especially after she builds a Rylai's, and once she gets her build rolling she has a massive mana pool and a solid amount of life sustain that allows her to keep the dps flowing until everyone on the enemy team has died.

What I see a lot of people say is that she's supposed to counter assassins and other highly mobile champions because she has the 'grounded' debuff and I 100% disagree with this sentiment. The main way to stop a dps champion is to burst them down before their lifesteal (in Cassiopeia's case her E life sustain) can kick in to keep them healthy, so Cassiopeia should not be completely immune to that type of assault. She has tools to deal with those types of champions, sure, but for her to be balanced she should only attain the status of 'hard' to assassinate instead of 'impossible.' Miasma with a minimum cast radius allows her to set up a big "no-no zone" for enemies or lock down a mobile champion if they are caught by her unawares.

She's supposed to counter mobility. That's the whole point of her W, it prevents movement abilities. Champions like Riven Zed Lissandra LeeSin and a few others for example. That's why she was given her new W, otherwise it's completely pointless(except maybe to prevent flashes but 90% of the time the person who would flash away will be dead due to R>Q>E>E>E before they would have the chance to flash. She destroys Zed and Riven I'd imagine, but I was pretty sure her W was meant to make her a counter to champions with dashes. However if someone has multiple dashes, that outrange her W, they're gonna get on top of you and then afterwards you won't be able to get away due to how your W works, they'll be able to dash on you again before you get a chance to react. Having a minimum cast range on her W is pointless imo and seems to be only there for the sake of being there. I can't see any logical reasoning for it. It's also not a "no no zone" if it can't be cast at a point which prevents said dashes, and is already easy to work around for a lot of champions(you can use a movement ability on the outside of the miasma and easily cross enough distance to get to Cassi. I've done it plenty). Btw dunno if you've player her recently or not, but her healing on her E might as well not even be there anymore. They nerfed it into the ground so she might heal a 1/4 inch of a health bar per E. I literally had to build a gunblade to get any healing off of her.

QuephaJan 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

She's supposed to counter mobility. That's the whole point of her W

Well I'll reiterate that I disagree with you as Cassiopeia is much more than her W and her E is clearly what defines her.

VoraciousXJan 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well I'll reiterate that I disagree with you as Cassiopeia is much more than her W and her E is clearly what defines her.

Her E isn't what decides what champions she counters...

QuephaJan 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Her E isn't what decides what champions she counters...

It absolutely does. Cassiopeia's E is her bread and butter, her main source of dps, her purpose in life with every other ability working to facilitate her use of E or protect her so she can continue casting E. As opposed to most AP champions, she is a pure dps mage, closer to an adc, and her counters and counterables need to support the strengths and weaknesses that entails. She can bring down tanks and shred entire teams when protected, kite for days with a huge refreshing movespeed steroid and a slow from Rylai's, all while regenerating around 20% of the massive dps her E deals through its heal on poisoned targets. If she also had perfect self-protection against mobile assassins then she would be all strengths and no weaknesses, an unbalance-able mess that would win in every situation when she's strong enough to compete and lose in every situation when she wasn't.

Don't act like Cassiopeia is useless because her W isn't completely perfect in all scenarios when she was a common pick in the meta all of last season and still looks to be pretty strong despite the recent Rylai's nerf.

VoraciousXJan 19, 20171 votes

I didn't say her e didn't deal much damage (although it doesn't without the rest of her kit. I said her e does not determine her counters. Her E works against anyone. Katarina is a pure dps mage. Cassi has utility and that utility determines who she counters. If all her abilities were pure dps, she would be more of a champion that counters no one and has no counters as well. However she does have utility in her kit designed against mobility. Her w however seems to be useless unless her ult is up so it only seems to make her counter some mobility champions, not all. Her e has nothing in it that can determine who she counters

QuephaJan 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I didn't say her e didn't deal much damage (although it doesn't without the rest of her kit. I said her e does not determine her counters. Her E works against anyone. Katarina is a pure dps mage. Cassi has utility and that utility determines who she counters. If all her abilities were pure dps, she would be more of a champion that counters no one and has no counters as well. However she does have utility in her kit designed against mobility. Her w however seems to be useless unless her ult is up so it only seems to make her counter some mobility champions, not all. Her e has nothing in it that can determine who she counters

Katarina is a dps mage? Cassiopeia's W is useless without her ult? This entire post is nonsense.

VoraciousXJan 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Katarina is a dps mage? Cassiopeia's W is useless without her ult? This entire post is nonsense.

She might as well be now. She isn't really an assassin considering her burst is delayed so much. And yeah. You can't keep most in your w long enough to kill them without your ult and even then they get out from my experience. I might also mention Cass was only played a lot back then because she was just reworked and she was nowhere near as played as the other mages. She also got nerfed and I never see her anymore. So ALL last season being a common pick is a lie. It was maybe a few patches after the mage update where she was played as other common mages and then she got nerfed and no one plays her anymore. They may as well remove the healing on her e because I barely notice it since the nerf. I only pick her when we need ap top and they have mobility. I also think you're greatly overestimating how allowing Her to use her w anywhere in its range would do. It would only give her a small chance to get away with practically no health left compared to a 0% chance against someone who can get to her now. If this entire post is nonsense, explain to me who he e that does nothing but deals damage counters specifically, since your last post was just using my words and calling them nonsense without any actual rebuttal to the original argument you started.

QuephaJan 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If this entire post is nonsense, explain to me who he e that does nothing but deals damage counters specifically.

Juggernauts, Vanguards, Wardens, anything that burst champions can't kill instantly because of their durability as she outputs constant dps as opposed to bursting and then backing off while waiting for cooldowns. The same types of champions that adcs are good against. This is the most basic concept of team compositions that has lead to the adc bot lane meta.

VoraciousXJan 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Juggernauts, Vanguards, Wardens, anything that burst champions can't kill instantly because of their durability as she outputs constant dps as opposed to bursting and then backing off while waiting for cooldowns. The same types of champions that adcs are good against. This is the most basic concept of team compositions that has lead to the adc bot lane meta.

Ahri has true damage, Syndra does now,both are burst champions and can get through tanks, in fact even Lux who has no true damage can melt faces off of tanky champions when she gets rolling. This doesn't make her E something that defines what she counters. Just because an ability is her bread and butter doesn't mean it's what makes her a counter to other champions. That's like saying Zilean counters Zed because his Q deals most of his damage. No, Zilean counters Zed because once Zed ults you, and you ult yourself, you come back and he has nothing left to all in you with. It's not because his Q is his bread and butter damage tool. Same thing with Cassiopeia.

Romans 8Jan 31, 20171 votes

Her kit just works differently than it used to. It was nice that they refocused damage to her poisons, but the mechanics didn't need to be changed. Her W is less utility and makes her more team dependent now, than she was before- and I really liked the mechanics of her previous iterations a lot better. She still feels clunky, especially with W, in laning phase and I think her kit is just less cohesive than it used to be.

People who didn't play her often just didn't really understand how her kit worked together. She doesn't just 'spam' E- she actually has to kite to unlock her full potential (like an ADC would). Many people don't understand that about her.