Zilean's ult is the only support ult that doesn't cost 100 mana

Abyssphere·Apr 11, 2015·3 votes·780 views

Chronoshift mana cost: 125 / 150/ 175

Can we fix that? Zilean's changes were meant to modernise him and yet both when he initially got changed, and then later got buffed (with a variety of mana cost reductions!), his ult's mana cost being outdated was ignored. Since Sona's Crescendo was (finally) changed to cost 100 mana at all ranks, Chronoshift has been the only support ultimate in the game to scale up in mana cost with level (unless you count Zyra as a support, but that's controversial).

Given Zilean still seems a bit weak, I think we could probably make this change quite easily? It seems like as good a place to start with buffs as any, honestly.

(p.s. Stranglethorns could do with a cost reduction too)

17 Comments

Puri Puri TaricApr 11, 20151 votes

cuz he not a support and zyra also not a support.

IcyPepperApr 11, 20151 votes

because every champion can only do one thing and one thing only with no chance of creativity or flexibility

AbyssphereApr 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

cuz he not a support and zyra also not a support.

Zilean's primary role is Support. You might like him mid but that's not his main job. Also: the vast majority of mid laners also have 100 mana ults, I only mentioned him being a support because mid laners also have weird cases like Veigar. Point is, Zilean is paying an unfair amount for his ult no matter what position he is in given that 100 mana is the standard.

LilStacey87Apr 11, 20151 votes

IDK man, I like Zilean as a champ but sometimes you gotta have a little diversity in the game. Otherwise it would be dull and boring. There has been times where I didnt have mana to Ult in the early game but I just learned to take the good with the bad (or at least in League of Legends) lol.

AbyssphereApr 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

IDK man, I like Zilean as a champ but sometimes you gotta have a little diversity in the game. Otherwise it would be dull and boring. There has been times where I didnt have mana to Ult in the early game but I just learned to take the good with the bad (or at least in League of Legends) lol.

I don't really get how ultimates having different mana costs makes the game at all more fun :/ Like, if you're Zilean against a Nami I don't see why you would think having a 175 mana cost ultimate versus a champ whose ult costs 100 mana is fun or interesting. It's unfair on Zilean and is really frustrating when you can't afford your ult, but you know every other support could.

Obviously you learn to cope with the mana cost being higher, I don't think it's crippling him or anything. But you can't deny it's randomly unfair on him for no reason and as said, it can cause frustration that other supports just don't have.

Nucleophilic atkApr 11, 20151 votes

But I mean....his ult is pretty dam strong.

AbyssphereApr 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4s4ojiFO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-04-11T00:59:02.135+0000)

But I mean....his ult is pretty dam strong.

Do you think giving his ultimate a standard mana cost will cause him to become a problem?

Please guys, give better arguments than "But his ult is strong". We all know his ult is strong, but that doesn't mean it has to be expensive. Tell me what would actually be problematic about his ult costing 100 mana.

Nucleophilic atkApr 11, 20151 votes

His ult being strong IS the problem with giving it a lower cost. I think that other aspects of his kit should be looked at.

AbyssphereApr 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nucleophilic atk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4s4ojiFO,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-04-11T02:22:44.159+0000)

His ult being strong IS the problem with giving it a lower cost. I think that other aspects of his kit should be looked at.

If strong ults deserve high costs then how come no champions in the last few years have gotten non-standard costs? Bard can put his entire team, the entire enemy team, any epic monster, a wave of minions and even BUILDINGS into stasis for 2.5 seconds. Cost? 100 mana. Kayle, an older champion, makes a champion immune to damage for 3 seconds. Cost? Zero mana.

If Zilean were a newly released champion you wouldn't have a problem with his ult costing 100 mana at all and you'd be right too: It's just normal. Ults cost the same amount regardless of power level, you can't decide an ultimate needs a higher cost because you deem it to be at a higher power level than others.

disregardableApr 11, 20151 votes

I feel like this would just be the opposite of a Lucian nerf. Lucian had a really, really overbearing problem: his passive. Riot didn't want to touch it, though. They nerfed his W, they nerfed his E, they nerfed his health. They just chipped and chipped away at him, and ultimately it did nothing. Eventually they gave up and nerfed his god damn passive. But by the time they had, they had taken away what Lucian needed to survive without his passive.

Likewise, Zilean has a really overbearing prolem: his underpowered Q. Riot can make all the baby buffs that they want, but it's not going to do anything. Eventually they will have to give up and actually buff it to make him healthy. But when that happens, all of those baby buffs are just going to make him overpowered when combined with the Q he actually needs.

101100111000Apr 11, 20151 votes

Zilean's ult is pretty non-generic and very powerful. I would say reduce Rank 1 mana costs to 100 for laning, but keep the scaling cost.

AbyssphereApr 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Zilean's ult is pretty non-generic and very powerful. I would say reduce Rank 1 mana costs to 100 for laning, but keep the scaling cost.

I don't really get what you mean. Yes it's a powerful ultimate but that doesn't say anything for it having a scaling cost. Unless you think Zilean would become a problematic champion with a standardised mana cost, I can't see why his ult being powerful is a reason for it to be so expensive?

If scaling ult mana costs were actually a thing that still came into use then I could see the argument but it's pretty clear Riot won't ever release a champion with a mana cost higher than 100 again, so keeping Zilean's cost so high because "his ult is powerful" is pretty nonsensical.

101100111000Apr 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't really get what you mean. Yes it's a powerful ultimate but that doesn't say anything for it having a scaling cost. Unless you think Zilean would become a problematic champion with a standardised mana cost, I can't see why his ult being powerful is a reason for it to be so expensive?

If scaling ult mana costs were actually a thing that still came into use then I could see the argument but it's pretty clear Riot won't ever release a champion with a mana cost higher than 100 again, so keeping Zilean's cost so high because "his ult is powerful" is pretty nonsensical.

Except the value of Zilean's ult is practically incomparable because the only comparable thing out is Guardian's Angel. At Rank 3, Zilean ult will stasis someone for 2 seconds and then revive with 1100 + 200% AP worth of HP. As a support, there is really nothing that just outright heals or deals so much damage aside from Soraka, and she has to spread that value across her entire team.

There really is no justification for him having a flat 100 cost except for "other supports have flat 100s.

Zilean seems weak because there is so much power potential in his revive ultimate. He's like Bard in this respect, but without the potential to backfire si much. Scaling mana costs just make sense on an ability that has an increasing ability to affect a game so much.