Ardent censor and unholy grail self cast?

Moonfall Saber·Jul 22, 2017·10 votes·3,735 views

Why not?

29 Comments

ShadòwJul 22, 201712 votes

cause they are meant to be support items and shouldn't get build on solo laners.

just imagine item 3504 on Kayle as first item for example.

That would be such a ridiculous power spike for 2300 gold before the enemy would even have his first item.

BALDG1VEN BOOMERJul 22, 20171 votes

Question, am I the only one who've seen a recent spike in Kayle + Yi duo since that went viral?

Moonfall SaberJul 22, 20173 votes

Kayle needs a rework anyway though.

AirKingNeoJul 22, 20171 votes

Ardent on Kayle wouldn't be that strong for a self cast item.

Ben SharpioJul 22, 20173 votes

probably because ardent is the most broken support item and sona should be nerfed because of it

cuddlykitten4Jul 22, 20174 votes

I swear dude, if you ruin this good thing for me then we will have such serious words. Trying to mess up my "fuck up outta bronze" strategy. That's just rude.

morris1Jul 22, 20171 votes

If you're gonna do it right at least pick Lulu.

chipndip1Jul 22, 20171 votes

Sona stomps low elo harder than Lulu?

cuddlykitten4Jul 27, 20171 votes

Sona can give the ardent's proc to your whole team. Lulu can't compete with that as far as synergy with the item goes.

AirKingNeoJul 22, 20172 votes

Sona does not need nerfs.

One Ashe OnJul 22, 20173 votes

item 3504 would become must on Kayle if she could self proc it. Movement speed, AP, 10% CDR and mana regen, heal and shield buff by 10%, an 35% attack speed buff added with bonus on hit damage and on hit heal... it would be a core item just like item 3115 .. trust me its a bad idea.

archerno1Jul 22, 20171 votes

Because everyone with any kind of self heal/shield would build it. Yasuo, Yi, Trynda, Aatrox, Fiora, Irelia, anyone with lifesteal. Jesus, just trying to imagine it hurts.

Grail wouldnt be so bad, although every mid Lux, Ahri, Orianna... would build it, wouldnt be too broken

But Ardent. Hell nah

Daddy BraumJul 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Because everyone with any kind of self heal/shield would build it. Yasuo, Yi, Trynda, Aatrox, Fiora, Irelia, anyone with lifesteal. Jesus, just trying to imagine it hurts.

Grail wouldnt be so bad, although every mid Lux, Ahri, Orianna... would build it, wouldnt be too broken

But Ardent. Hell nah

Pretty sure it wouldn't apply to life steal but more targeted heals like abilities But still giving yourself bonus attack speed and on hit magic damage would be very strong

Moonfall SaberJul 22, 20171 votes

Not nearly as much damage or as strong as bortk or witts end. What's the problem

Moonfall SaberJul 22, 20171 votes

Why the hell would Fiora Yasuo yi tryndamere Aatrox or irrelia want 60 AP. Yi and tryndamere would be the only ones who could use the attack speed and on hit damage and that's only after using their heals. Orianna, lux, Diana and ryze however would be able to use this item effectively and even then it wouldn't be all that overpowering on them. Diana and kayle are like the only champions that it would be good on.

archerno1Jul 22, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moonfall Saber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4glxgNml,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-07-22T17:00:25.281+0000)

Why the hell would Fiora Yasuo yi tryndamere Aatrox or irrelia want 60 AP. Yi and tryndamere would be the only ones who could use the attack speed and on hit damage and that's only after using their heals. Orianna, lux, Diana and ryze however would be able to use this item effectively and even then it wouldn't be all that overpowering on them. Diana and kayle are like the only champions that it would be good on.

They would want passive, it gives attack speed,increases their healing and gives them crazy lifesteal. And its only 2300g

Moonfall SaberJul 22, 20171 votes

They have no way to proc it though. Plus in all seriousness why would they chose ardent over blade of the ruined king.

archerno1Jul 22, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moonfall Saber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4glxgNml,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2017-07-22T20:47:24.594+0000)

They have no way to proc it though. Plus in all seriousness why would they chose ardent over blade of the ruined king.

What do you mean they have no way to proc it? Ardent censer procs off any heal from your allies. Hell, Ashe with pact mastery applies censer buff when allies attack target of her autos. if it procced off self heals it would work on all abilities that heal you, on Grasp mastery, on Warlods Bloodlust mastery, on lifesteal, everything

Moonfall SaberJul 22, 20171 votes

It's not even cray lifesteal. It's 15-30 healing per auto attack and 40% attack speed. Meanwhile witts end has 40 damage on hit and gives lifesteal

archerno1Jul 22, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moonfall Saber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4glxgNml,comment-id=0002000100000001,timestamp=2017-07-22T20:52:05.505+0000)

It's not even cray lifesteal. It's 15-30 healing per auto attack and 40% attack speed. Meanwhile witts end has 40 damage on hit and gives lifesteal

Increased by mastery, increased by 10% from item. Its extreme sustain. Champ with 2 AS, like Trynda for example late game would heal around 70-80 hp per sec with just this item. All of that for price of 2300 gold.

Take for example Xin. Ardent censer on Xin: 60 AP would increase his W heal by 25, its already 50 base, and 30 heal from item and 20% bonus AD, lets say he has 100 bonus AD thats 20 extra healing. And increase all of that by 10% that ardent passively give. He would heal 140 every hit

Moonfall SaberJul 23, 20171 votes

If you think a XinZhao or a Tryndamere would actually want to waste an item slow to build a item 3504 plus rune windspeakers. you as insane. maybe it sounds OP to you but i said it like 6 times already item 3153 would still be better.

archerno1Jul 23, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moonfall Saber,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4glxgNml,comment-id=000200010000000100000000,timestamp=2017-07-23T11:24:11.041+0000)

If you think a or a would actually want to waste an item slow to build a plus rune windspeakers. you as insane. maybe it sounds OP to you but i said it like 6 times already would still be better.

Censer would give more sustain than BOTRK and more attack speed at 1100 gold less. Not to mention it gives more movement speed than Zeal items.

Of course Trynda would want that. His E and Q benefit from AP, his E scales with 100% AP. He would get sustain, movement speed, attack speed, damage,CDR, his own heal increased by 10% and all of that for 2300 gold.

koshkyraJul 22, 20171 votes

Not ardent, people would abuse it.

Grail yes tho.

chipndip1Jul 22, 20171 votes

2 reasons:

These heals work on ANY form of healing. If you healed yourself off of life steal or spell vamp, you'd apply it to...well...YOU. It'd make a crazy interaction with Gunblade + Censor where you just constantly give yourself Censor forever. I don't want to see it happen...
Hard to aim Grail on aoe sustain moves when healing towards yourself makes it used on yourself. You'd never be able to get it on anyone else.

Moonfall SaberJul 22, 20171 votes

I think you have healing and shielding confused with lifesteal. They are two completely different things. Thinks like darius decimate is a heal. Things that apply lifesteal are totally different and healing and shielding would not increase lifesteal at all.

Shadow HazardJul 22, 20171 votes

Oh sure what would be more fun than an immortal bot lane carry lulu?...

rtbf221651412Jul 22, 20171 votes

Soraka

RaoulJul 23, 20171 votes

I am afraid that item 3504 would become way too strong if you would allow champions to self trigger it.

If you look at it in terms of gold effeciency, even the stats it gives are already worth around 2.2 k, even without the healing interaction.

If it would now also gibe +35% Attack speed and lifesteal, the item would turn into the most gold and slot efficient Item in the game and become a have to buy on every Attack related champion that has any way to heal or shield himself.

Hell, just take it in combination with item 3812 and every AD Champion could permanently have the buff active.