I feel like some people are calling Runes Reforged a mistake for the wrong reasons

Kairoptra··21 votes·10,607 views

Now, if you don’t like Runes Reforged because of lowered diversity of choice or something like that, that’s fine. That’s your prerogative and I understand that, even if I don’t agree with it. That all comes down to opinion and we can only debate so much before it just devolves into yelling “mine’s better” over and over again.

However, many also make the argument that Runes Reforged was a mistake because of all the damage that got added on. Don’t get me wrong; I hate damage creep as much as the next Boards-goer (okay, maybe not that much), but I think people are looking at it the wrong way.

I personally feel like new Runes adding more damage to the game is a damage creep problem, not a new Runes problem. The idea behind new Runes was to streamline Runes and Masteries while increasing their impact and interactivity. That could’ve taken any number of forms. The damage creep that resulted from Runes Reforged was not inherent to the concept of the update.

So you see, in my eyes the fault in Runes Reforged came not from the basic idea of reworking Runes, but rather the design choices made after such a framework was established that led to increased damage.

24 Comments

Moody P16 votes

increasing rune impact is exactly why it's terrible

AirKingNeo2 votes

well, when said runes are all just damage (or stupid defense like aftershock and bone plating), yeah, they are.

Pre-rework Zombie Ward was the right idea. Legend and Bloodline are the right idea.

Muxxik6 votes

This is exactly what I've been saying to people who have such a problem with the reworked runes system. People think that the system itself is problematic, but in reality, the only thing problematic about it is the content it is filled with. The system itself is fine, but the runes themselves that populate the system are mostly damage and do not in any way address the loss of armor/mr that occurred when we lost the old system.

Dat Kat5 votes

I don't think they're a mistake at all, the correct term is NEW. New things evolve and flourish in time. Riot's making extensive reviews and changes around the new runes to build on it and make it something worth the time.

Its pretty natural to complain about new things, nobody exactly likes changes until they adapt and learn how to accept it.

It Hertz When IP13 votes

Thinking they aren't a mistake: fine. Own personal opinion.

Acting like everyone that doesn't like them is just afraid of change: not fine. Actually pretty dumb.

Napoleon31 votes

afraid of change or afraid of burst damages? please bro you don't see that the guy who is talking in the discusion is telling that the damage is big maybe now you see why some people want old league of legends?

deadlychuck1 votes

Except that when they were new no one was complaining, it was only after a year or so when their new shine wore off that people seemed to start raising complaints.

Cavesloth2 votes

Um no. People were complaining within a month or so. Once the meta shook out and everyone had it all optimized it became pretty clear pretty fast it was bad.

deadlychuck2 votes

People were complaining about it, but they weren't getting any support.

Hell, if you really want to get technical, I had a complaint thread laying out these exact problems when they announced that Rune preview where they showed like 4 example runes and explained the system. The problems are that fundamental and unavoidable, and the "there's nothing wrong with the rune system, just everything about it" idea just sounds like denial. Like with the Muxxik guy below.

The system itself is fine, but the runes themselves that populate the system

Except that you didn't need to know the runes would be damage biased to point out these exact problems.

Cavesloth1 votes

Just reread your original post, and I totally misinterpreted what you were trying to say, MB I was pretty tired last night.

The problem was people had been complaining about things for so long, that these new more legitimate complaints prompted the same responses from the riot apologists who laugh every time someone says they are quitting and they say the game is fine its not dying, can I have your account JK. LOL, etc.

deadlychuck1 votes

Yeah, I agree. Though i'd actually say that the riot bootlickers are probably more prevalent in the earliest posts that bring up good points, rather than the new posts that bring up the same points.

Mostly just because it's easier to defend their position and opinions when most people aren't able to comprehend and simulate the possible effects of something so far down the road.

Just to prove the point though, here's that old post that I made. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/5I5HU8R3-with-the-new-rune-system-revealed

Cavesloth2 votes

Sad I didn't see that post back in the day. Post it again and it'd get a hundred upvotes easy, sad how slow league players are too see whats right in front of them, addiction is an ugly thing....

Sire Hippington4 votes

The idea behind new Runes was to streamline Runes and Masteries while increasing their IMPACT and interactivity

Right there you have why it indeed is closely related to damage creep. You're right that the raw frame work is not a cause of damage creep, but the implemented design goals are. If you want to have choices that can impact you're playstyle and/or offer a meaningfull interaction, they need to have high enough numbers to be relevant, no one would adapt his playstyle for a mere 3%increased damage(old spell+blade weaveing) So any damage related masterie would have to do more than the good old 3% increased damage of the S4 'keystone'(havoc), maybe not on average through out the game, but in specific situation. The other issue is that the focus on 'more interesting and interactive aswell as impactfull mechanics creates more edgecases with high kit synergie, compared to generalistic passive effects like the raw 3% increased damage, leading to better best cases and best cases are usually related to getting kills.

That said, one could still keep the frame work and reduce damage in it and focus more on utillity and/or defense, have more effects like phaserush and fleet foodwork and competely abandon pure damage effects like EC or PTA, cause raw damage effects within the framework automatically contribute to damage creep.

Douglas Funnie3 votes

Runes Reforged was was implemented for casual players. Riot wanted to change shit for the sake of change throughout Season 8. This season has been a total mess. An absolute garbage experience.

  • Overloaded Runes
  • Overpowered Runes
  • Overpowered Champions
  • New/Updated Champions with overloaded kits
  • RNG elements
    • Zoe
    • Klepto
    • Dragons
    • Plants
    • Scuttle
  • BS Bot lane Changes
Stephenizgod3 votes

The reason Runes Reforged is a failure is because all the problem Runes directly reward you for doing exactly what you are supposed to do.

You are rewarded already when you do it, we didn't need a bonus reward on everything we do. Not to mention these rewards are catered specifically to the roles. An assassin shouldn't be rewarded for landing 3 separate abilities, thats what they are supposed to do, and if they don't land them they don't deserve the kill. An ADC shouldn't be rewarded for being able to harass and poke, thats what they do. They shouldn't be rewarded for continually attacking their opponent, thats what they do. Supports shouldn't be rewarded for healing or shielding, its what they do, etc...

The reward of hitting a skillshot is you landed it, good job. Why do you deserve extra free damage for that?

The only Runes I feel are not problematic are Glacial Augment and Unsealed Spellbook. They augment your gameplay and depending on how you use them can aid you in your goals. The only reward is that you were able to effectively use them, they don't give free rewards for doing what you are supposed to do.

The reason no one complained about Old Runes is because they gave stats which helped you accomplish your goals, not dump a bunch of damage as a reward for playing the champion how you were supposed to. You could build them for specific champions or match-ups, not to mention every champion could use them effectively.

Anatera2 votes

It was a mistake because it replaced a perfectly functional (albeit mildly flawed) system with another system that was so obviously worse and completely broken.

I don't necessarily have a problem with Runes reforged because it could've worked for another game. I have a problem with the fact that Riot was stupid enough to release it the way they did under the assumption that we'd just get used to it. And I know they were trying to force us to get used to it because it took half a year for them to say anything about changing it in any significant way. It's incompetence in its purest form. Why would anyone be happy when the game is so obviously being run by clueless assclowns?

Slam Dùnk2 votes

there not even runes anymore there just mastery pages is the reason i find it retarded

Catastrophic2 votes

TL;DR Runes reforged: Good idea, bad execution.

Doge20201 votes

Ok, now how can we rework them or change them to fit the theme more and not be so damage filled?

YumaS2Astral1 votes

Damage creep existed before the Runes Reforged were even a concept. I don't know why people blame them for the damage creep.

Old masteries were already a type of damage creep. We used to not have things like Thunderlord's Decree, Deathfire Touch, or Grasp of the Undying, which were artificially increasing champion's damage.

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

Honestly I don't see why people want the old system back. idk how sugar coated peoples memory of them were, but I remember a crappy system that gave us a bunch of runes to pick from but only the handful of early game runes were viable, half the runes were level restricted (especially Quints) and you had to pay IP for said runes that could be used to get champs instead. Hell Max %HP runes were only really viable on Sion, try to use those on anyone else and people would look at you like you stuck your face in a hornets nest.

Don't get me wrong the new system is still has kinks to work out and is far from reaching that level of diversity Riot is looking for, but the old system was just as, if not MORE restricting then the new one is. The only difference is it gave the illusion of more options. But the truth was every game was "Thunderlords and early game runes", Tanks being the exception to the Thunderlords bit... most of the time...

For god sake if I used anything aside from Thunderlords and full lethality/AD Runes on MonkeyKing back then people would act like I was intentionally trying to make us lose, all cause I didn't like the Thunderlords meta and wanted to adjust my runes based on the situation at hand. At least now I can at build what runes I want for the given situation (now that Electrocute has been nerfed at least >.>)

Napoleon31 votes

like riot cares ? they dont care about us who are saying the truth but they care about people and money they're balance sucks and they are telling that they are trying to balance the game when the new things make the game more unbalanced

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

Runes having an extreme impact on the game is exactly why I don't like it.

Runes and masteries were just supposed to be small stat boosts.

The difference between a Zed with Aftershock and a Zed with Electrocute is way too big, compared to a Zed with armor runes and a Zed with attack speed runes.

Vlada Cut1 votes

Predator Celerity Hecarim, tell me if it's okay to two shot someone at lvl 3.

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