One of the Reasons why Lethality and Flat Magic Pen is so shitty ATM.

ArnoldSchwarzens··1 votes·2,423 views

Recently played a game with GP after watching some of Tobias Fate's stream and he looked fun to play. Well turns out I suck massive balls on him but that's not the only thing I discovered.

On Tobias' stream he always goes for crit after triforce but I thought to myself that I want to try my own full lethality build because in theory, it deals more reliable damage than the crit build, if you hit squishies with it at least.

So not only did the early game feel siginficantly weaker to me, there also is the fact that I couldn't even oneshot waves in the late game with my full build where Tobias' build could. And then I realized the big problem behind it all.

Minions, towers and a lot of monsters don't have armor and MR, none at all. Which means that the 82 lethality I had was completely wasted on all of them.

This is important. Ever wondered why no one runs lethality rune pages or why people stopped running flat armor pen rune pages before, even before lethality was a thing? That's right, it would just make last-hitting much, much more difficult so you were basically forced to go for a flat AD or some attack speed in Quints instead. And it's not just the early game, tower armor also got removed so the lethality is also wasted gold against them too now aswell as minion waves in the late game.

Same thing with flat Magic Pen, people rarely ever run Haunting Guise or Liandry's anymore because it wont let them deal extra damage against minions, monsters and towers whereas raw AP and CDR will. The only reason everyone takes flat pen marks is because that is literally the only kind of mark AP champions can pick from.

So what needs to be changed? It's rather simple, really. Let minions and towers have 100 armor ( which will reduce incoming damage by 50% ) and halve their HP. For everyone who does not run lethality or flat magic pen nothing will change, they will still deal the same damage to them, but for everyone who does run it they finally won't have to feel bad about taking it anymore, especially in runes.

And I think this is something that we need. If you look at pro builds for example, champions like Rengar and Kha'Zix who would absolutely love lethality in theory skip it entirely, same with magic pen, you will never actually see any other magic pen item than Sorc Boots and even those often get outclassed by Ionian Boots.

12 Comments

Sahn Uzal2 votes

Don't go full Lehtality on GP. You can do this item 3078 item 3142 item 1001 item 3087 item 3031 item 3036 , but without crit chance you're not gonna do anything to anyone post the midgame.

ArnoldSchwarzens1 votes

Yeah I realized that too pretty quickly. But I would argue that IF the minion and tower change would come through it would definitely not be as bad anymore. I did some maths and unless the target has a ton of armor the overall DPS your barrels should do against champions would be higher with full Lethality.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

Crit gives big numbers tho. Flashy big numbers good.

Penns1 votes

I wouldnt say flat magic pen is bad, the problem is just that there is literally no item in this game that has it except for boots and a useless niche item lol.

Nahui1 votes

Well I can't speak for magic pen, but lethality was changed to be scaling because about any AD champ could rush large amounts of it early game and crush anyone with damage, aside from champs who immediately went full tank. It's not meant to do well early to prevent pen rush, so I'm not sure its effect on minions is as important as by the time you start building up lethality, you should have enough AD to clear waves anyways. In regards to runes, I agree and that's always been a choice to make. Pen is better against champions, AD better vs minions. At least, pen used to be better vs champs. Now with how lethality needs to scale, only a hyper aggressive early game really needs it or a champion who will build lots of it and use the bits of runes to scale later, like an investment.

ArnoldSchwarzens1 votes

I know it was made to prevent snowballing but I wouldn't say it's supposed to suck early game and be great lategame. I think of it like scaling alongside the enemy's armor per level so it's not a power curve that goes up over time but more of a straight line because it should have the same strength at all stages of the game.

MohawkBird1 votes

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Meep Man1 votes

This is only the case if it is actually reducing their Armor/MR, such as Amumu's passive. Anything that makes it to where only you can deal bonus damage does not pierce beyond 0.

ArnoldSchwarzens1 votes

Stat penetration is not able to penetrate past zero but outside effects like Black Cleaver or Nasus' Spirit Fire are. There was a time, back in preseason 3 when Black Cleaver got reworked, when its passive would stack. What would happen is that you would see AD Casters running around with 6 black cleavers every game to penetrate the enemy armor by 180% and therefore dealing not only true damage but also amplified damage.

Meep Man1 votes

Yeah, League of Cleavers. Back when Wukong was a god since his Q was already an instant Black Cleaver and his R had synergy with it.

Aptest1 votes

umm. i understand what you are saying. but i think the direction has to be the opposite. we should buff minions such that crit GP can't insta-clear with barrels anymore, and that generally other AD champions cant instaclear with hydra either.

Big Lincoln1 votes

pen is for killing champions, that's not a problem.

magic pen isn't shit either, it does its job very well. ignore mage mains

lethality sucks because it's not as good as old flat pen until level 12. it's a late game investment on an early/mid game stat

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