I think the problem with enchanter suports is that they have way too much easy access to CDR

koshkyra··1 votes·407 views

Almost every enchanter item (almost every support item for that matter) comes with CDR.

This results in them having 40% CDR without having to leave the optimal build path for them.

Other classes, if they desire max CDR, must leave their optimal builds and make purchases that might not benefit them as much as other items could.

For example, if a mage wants max CDR, they may purchase a item 3100 or item 3102 instead of a item 3165, leaving them without the 300 health and magic penetration that they need from morellos.

If an ADC wants max CDR, they may purchase a item 3508 instead of a item 3087, leaving them without the incredibly busted burst, movement speed, and attack speed that stattik shiv is giving them.

If an assassin wants max CDR, they may purchase item 3158 instead of item 3111, leaving them without the CC reduction that they need to remain a mobile threat.

However, enchanter supports (really all supports) do not need to change a thing in order to access maximum CDR. An optimal build for enchanter supports is: item 3504 item 3107 item 3190 item 3222 item 3174 item 3117 (items may vary, but 95% of the time you will end up with max CDR one way or another. maybe you buy lucidity boots instead to compensate, maybe you end up getting a frozen heart instead of locket, etc)

This results in them having 40% CDR easily without having to change anything.

Well, why does this matter so much? CDR is CDR.

Let's use Lulu as an example. At max rank, her ult is on an 80 second CD. Seems high, right?

Well, assuming Lulu took sorcery/inspiration (or inspiration/sorcery, doesnt matter) Lulu has 45% CDR, +15% ult CDR from ultimate hat, resulting in a large reduction of her ult cooldown.

80(1-0.15) 68(1-0.45) =roughly 35-36, when rounded off (edit: its 37.4 lol)

35-36 seconds (37.4) for a Lulu ult. Does that seem fair to you?

(it doesnt btw)

Anyway, i think that we should lower the CDR available to enchanter supports and force them to build out of their optimal path in order to get maximum CDR.

6 Comments

Dead flag blues3 votes

No, the main issue with enchanter supports is that they have a binary braindead kit.

Sona a dog could play her

Lulu point and click literal stun who lasts way too long + insane shield (point and click) + insane R (point and click)

Janna point and click shield, point and click poke in lane with high damage, R is basically "oh boi I fucked up"

Others are fine, these 3 are just frustrating because you just can't reach their beloved marksmen in teamfights thanks to the insane peel they can offer with no downside

Death by Glamour1 votes

I always laugh when people say that enchanters have a brain dead kit (you miss soraka and nami from your list bte who are a bit more difficult than the ones you listed) when every class has easy to play champions.

koshkyra1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pink Leg Warmers,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4YAFc5BB,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-04-06T17:40:12.971+0000)

I always laugh when people say that enchanters have a brain dead kit (you miss soraka and nami from your list bte who are a bit more difficult than the ones you listed) when every class has easy to play champions.

i know, people need to stop using one example to generalize an entire class

"supports are braindead because all lulu has to do is press E"

ok, but what about nami who has to land shit, or soraka who has no means of defending herself and must position perfectly at all times?

ZephyrDrake1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dead flag blues,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4YAFc5BB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-06T16:23:27.716+0000)

No, the main issue with enchanter supports is that they have a binary braindead kit.

Sona a dog could play her

Lulu point and click literal stun who lasts way too long + insane shield (point and click) + insane R (point and click)

Janna point and click shield, point and click poke in lane with high damage, R is basically "oh boi I fucked up"

Others are fine, these 3 are just frustrating because you just can't reach their beloved marksmen in teamfights thanks to the insane peel they can offer with no downside

If your team is being peeled by a Sona of all things then sorry to say but your teamcomp sucks

chipndip12 votes
  1. Enchanters don't have a cdr problem. They have an appreciable game play problem. Idk why people keep looking at itemization to fix enchanters. It's stupid.

  2. Forcing Enchanters to build outside what they should build for cdr is as stupid as saying we should tie the hp tank supports want to items that offer AD/AP.

  3. No one really cares about Lulu's ult being on a 30 second cd. That's still "one a team fight", so who cares? Also, it's level 16. Everyone has "One a team fight" ult cds at that point. Lastly, why are you factoring in Ultimate Hat into this? ANYONE can take Ultimate Hat. That's not a "support" thing. This is a lousy way to make an argument.

Sairek Ceareste1 votes

No one would build both item 3174 and item 3222. Having item 3174 disables the harmony passive on item 3222 making it very inefficient (you'd be surprised how useful having over 10 health per SECOND is).

As for a 37.4 second ult... that's achievable on a lot of people right now. On any support, or any mage... pretty much anyone. Going off to get one CDR item if you want to have a 30~40 second ult isn't asking much, especially when items like item 3812 exists which still provides a lot of damage AND sustain with CDR, or item 3157 which isn't what I'd call much of a "setback" considering how useful the active is. And then there's just plenty of other items like item 3025 item 3071 item 3083 item 3194 item 3001 item 3142 item 3147 item 3003

These are all useful items that hurt hard, provide a lot of offensive or defensive capabilities (sometimes with an active), that all provide CDR. Hitting max CDR on anybody really isn't that difficult, ESPECIALLY if you take both ultimate had and transendence, which transendence eliminates the need to purchase another CDR item, or if you go over it, still provides you with a good amount of adaptive bonus to AP/AD anyways.

The only ones who probably can't hit 45% CDR easily is some ADCs, but that's because they have auto attacks in the first place and they generally don't need it.

Whilst Lulu can have her ult up every 37.4 seconds, Lux can have her ult every 31 seconds (16 seconds if she gets her reset), Annie can have tibbers up literally 100% of the time with an ult CD of also 37.4 seconds. Ezreal can easily get max CDR with just item 3025 and item 3158 when going into the sorcery tree even as a secondary, and a 56.1 second ultimate may seem pretty high, except that he also gets cooldown timer resets every time he lands a Q, making it much lower than it may actually seem.

Basically, my point is that this isn't exclusive to just the support class. Any character can do this -- they just require at minimum one item to do so. The item itself may not even be that much of a commitment, like in Ezreal's case.

Then there's the part where the last time I've seen a support reach level 16, was in a game that lasted a whopping 55 minutes. A support reaching level 16 is so rare, that you don't even have to worry about a level 3 ultimate from a support. Some games don't even last long enough for the support to even reach double digits in levels.

Finally, to even get that low amount of CDR, the support has to take both inspiration and sorcery, which usually doesn't happen. Most supports take (or at least should be taking) inspiration and domination. Whilst lowering your ult cooldown by 10~15 seconds sounds useful and you may do a little extra poke damage in the laning phase, you're going to be lacking everywhere else especially after the laning phase is done. The exception to this is unless you're some kind of AP "support" like Brand, Zyra, Velkoz, or Veigar. Usually the domination rune is better, because zombie wards are still invaluably important for extending vision duration for your team (they don't even count to your ward limit and only give 1 gold to an enemy who pops them), Then even more importantly: Ingenious Hunter, which can reduce item actives (which includes trinkets by the way) by a total whopping amount of 40% is way more useful than reducing the timer of your ultimate by 15% which is calculated AFTER your actual cooldown reduction. With cosmic insight, this totals a 45% item active CDR.

Now which is better? 611 seconds reduced on your ultimate on a class that is probably going to get 45% CDR anyways (making ultimate hat less potent), or 4045% Active Item CDR on a class that tends to build 3, 4 or sometimes even 5 active items in a game, and this also reduces the cooldown timer on your trinket as well?

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