Can we give Zilean a buff to make him more effective as a support? And talk about a tahm kench one?

Paroe·Oct 8, 2018·1 votes·2,061 views

Rewind COST: 35 MANA COOLDOWN: 14 / 12 / 10 / 8 / 6 ACTIVE: when cast on self Zilean reduces Time Bomb Time Bomb's and Time Warp Time Warp's Cooldown reduction icon cooldowns by 10 seconds each. _ACTIVE: When cast on an ally Zilean restores HP based 20/30/40/50/60+1% per 20AP of the damage taken in the last 3 seconds. _

Devour TARGET RANGE: 250 COST: 60 MANA COOLDOWN: 28 / 25 / 22 / 19 / 16 FIRST CAST – DEVOUR: Tahm Kench swallows an enemy minion, non-epic monster or allied champion, making them Playful untargetable and unable to take any actions for 4 seconds. SECOND CAST – REGURGITATE: Tahm Kench regurgitates the swallowed target. If they are an enemy, they are Stun icon stunned for 0.25 seconds and take magic damage, capped against monsters.** If they are an ally they recover 50/75/100/125/150+1 per 10 max HP. **

14 Comments

WilyumOct 8, 20181 votes

The tahm Kench buff is unneeded in my opinion. He is a pretty solid support given the right comp, the problem is he gets outshined by other supports who have a kit more suited for the role. Someone like Braum or Morgana will consistently be picked at higher rates because their kits are meant to support. Tahm needs to become more of a top laner or a jungler again, in my opinion, adding a healing buff will not change his pick rate I think. Changing it to making the allied champion eaten invulnerable would be a better fix I think, prevent people from taking DOT while inside him, save them from things like Ignite. Just my opinion

ParoeOct 8, 20182 votes

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The tahm Kench buff is unneeded in my opinion. He is a pretty solid support given the right comp, the problem is he gets outshined by other supports who have a kit more suited for the role. Someone like Braum or Morgana will consistently be picked at higher rates because their kits are meant to support. Tahm needs to become more of a top laner or a jungler again, in my opinion, adding a healing buff will not change his pick rate I think. Changing it to making the allied champion eaten invulnerable would be a better fix I think, prevent people from taking DOT while inside him, save them from things like Ignite. Just my opinion

As we saw when the last round of tahm nerfs happened, tahm mains are generally "support tanks", so the proposed tahm buff is a support buff. It wouldnt impact his laning, and the cooldown would still be there, so its just an additional "i can help deal with poke" kind of thing. Exactly the same logic for the Zilean buff, but the Zilean buff makes a lot more sense thematically too.

WilyumOct 8, 20181 votes

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As we saw when the last round of tahm nerfs happened, tahm mains are generally "support tanks", so the proposed tahm buff is a support buff. It wouldnt impact his laning, and the cooldown would still be there, so its just an additional "i can help deal with poke" kind of thing. Exactly the same logic for the Zilean buff, but the Zilean buff makes a lot more sense thematically too.

I still think it is unnecessary, Zilean getting a buff to his w is the wrong way to buff him I think. So he would have to Target himself to use w? Wouldn't that sort of undermine his ability to stun and lay down double bombs quickly?

ParoeOct 8, 20181 votes

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I still think it is unnecessary, Zilean getting a buff to his w is the wrong way to buff him I think. So he would have to Target himself to use w? Wouldn't that sort of undermine his ability to stun and lay down double bombs quickly?

Why should he be able to heal AND double bomb? He can choose to stun or heal, and i think thats a pretty good choice to make. Would seperate the zilean supports from the Zilean mages.

You could also give him a strong AP scaling HoT on his E instead, i suppose. But that would be a free buff without any gameplay impact...

ParoeOct 9, 20181 votes

bump

OleandervineOct 9, 20181 votes

No, the Zilean buff is unneeded. Zilean isn't a healer, and he should not be a healer. Zilean's utility rests in his E and his R, and he offers speed ups/slow downs, and infuriatingly spammable revives to his teams. Adding heals into the mix would give him too much utility, and make him too well rounded as a support.

ParoeOct 9, 20181 votes

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No, the Zilean buff is unneeded. Zilean isn't a healer, and he should not be a healer. Zilean's utility rests in his E and his R, and he offers speed ups/slow downs, and infuriatingly spammable revives to his teams. Adding heals into the mix would give him too much utility, and make him too well rounded as a support.

Even if youre giving up a powerful utility for it, and its on a long cool down? Its not like youl be able to stun people AND heal; if you heal, youre giving up your stun and high damage. It would give Zilean more options in a game where support mages who cant sustain of some kind simply arent played. Same logic for Tahm kench, but the Tahm one isnt as important to me as the Zilean one.

Plus the heal is a % of damage taken in the last three seconds. Its not a flat amount, and it cant be used outside of battle.

OleandervineOct 9, 20181 votes

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Even if youre giving up a powerful utility for it, and its on a long cool down? Its not like youl be able to stun people AND heal; if you heal, youre giving up your stun and high damage. It would give Zilean more options in a game where support mages who cant sustain of some kind simply arent played. Same logic for Tahm kench, but the Tahm one isnt as important to me as the Zilean one.

Plus the heal is a % of damage taken in the last three seconds. Its not a flat amount, and it cant be used outside of battle.

If the cooldown is long, then the ability becomes useless for the rest of his kit, and completely destroys his poke potential and stun potential. Zilean doesn't need a heal or alternate capability to his W at all. It's very unique to kit, and essential to how he functions as a poke and utility support.

ParoeOct 9, 20181 votes

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If the cooldown is long, then the ability becomes useless for the rest of his kit, and completely destroys his poke potential and stun potential. Zilean doesn't need a heal or alternate capability to his W at all. It's very unique to kit, and essential to how he functions as a poke and utility support.

And yet Zilean isnt played as a support... Thats what im getting at. When you see a zilean, hes building mage items and doing what annie and brand do but with a less powerful kit for it. Giving his W - a selfish ability that reduces his cooldowns by 10 seconds - an alernate effect gives him both a third ability AND lets him a little more flexible in his playstyle. Rather than be all or nothing based on landing your stun, you could hold your W in case your marksman gets bursted and you dont want to waste your ult.

I mean... When was the last time you saw a zilean? Karma is picked for support more than Zilean, because karma has some form of sustain AND does damage.

OleandervineOct 9, 20181 votes

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And yet Zilean isnt played as a support... Thats what im getting at. When you see a zilean, hes building mage items and doing what annie and brand do but with a less powerful kit for it. Giving his W - a selfish ability that reduces his cooldowns by 10 seconds - an alernate effect gives him both a third ability AND lets him a little more flexible in his playstyle. Rather than be all or nothing based on landing your stun, you could hold your W in case your marksman gets bursted and you dont want to waste your ult.

I mean... When was the last time you saw a zilean? Karma is picked for support more than Zilean, because karma has some form of sustain AND does damage.

Zilean is an absolutely wicked support, and any Zilean worth his salt can infuriate the enemy team. The low CD on his ultimate makes him an utter pain in the ass to deal with, and his bombs, if he's throwing them well, can be poke you can't really avoid. He's a stellar support, and I don't think Karma is better than him.

ParoeOct 9, 20181 votes

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Zilean is an absolutely wicked support, and any Zilean worth his salt can infuriate the enemy team. The low CD on his ultimate makes him an utter pain in the ass to deal with, and his bombs, if he's throwing them well, can be poke you can't really avoid. He's a stellar support, and I don't think Karma is better than him.

I never said he wasnt a good support in the right hands - only that compared to champions who fill the same niche hes not as good. The suggested change gives him a unique sustain ability that cant be used on himself AND comes with a difficult choice; Heal the burst an ally just took or try and stun.

It would give Zilean a stronger place in the support class while giving him a unique lane anti-poke and an anti-burst tool in team fights.

OleandervineOct 9, 20181 votes

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I never said he wasnt a good support in the right hands - only that compared to champions who fill the same niche hes not as good. The suggested change gives him a unique sustain ability that cant be used on himself AND comes with a difficult choice; Heal the burst an ally just took or try and stun.

It would give Zilean a stronger place in the support class while giving him a unique lane anti-poke and an anti-burst tool in team fights.

Zilean doesn't need a stronger place in the support class though, he's not a healer, and if you make him a healer, it overgeneralizes him. He's utility and poke, that's it. There will always be better and worse champions in similar niches, but that doesn't mean we need to overbuff every champion who's not the best pick and make them have everything the best has. Karma is also a really bad comparison, because she's a generalist mage, and they do a bit of everything. It's part of the reason she's getting some kit work done, she's bland and covers a lot of fields.

ParoeOct 9, 20181 votes

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Zilean doesn't need a stronger place in the support class though, he's not a healer, and if you make him a healer, it overgeneralizes him. He's utility and poke, that's it. There will always be better and worse champions in similar niches, but that doesn't mean we need to overbuff every champion who's not the best pick and make them have everything the best has. Karma is also a really bad comparison, because she's a generalist mage, and they do a bit of everything. It's part of the reason she's getting some kit work done, she's bland and covers a lot of fields.

... ANd the suggested changes wouldnt be making him a healer, either. But you NEED to offer more than zone and utility in the current league of legends. If you dont, youre never going to compete with the likes of Nami and Alistar.

ranruyJan 14, 20191 votes

As a Zilean main I've been wondering a few things. His passive cd needs to be lowered from 13 seconds to like 5 seconds or something. I know people say that it says 10 but when you land a bomb on someone the countdown starts then goes back up again once the bomb explodes (3 second countdown). His Q (bomb toss) needs a faster travel speed. And why does his W use mana if it doesn't do damage. Tristana's rapid fire doesn't use mana yet its an enabling skill. In a way you're using Q+W+Q just to do 2 attacks. Using 3 skills to do the damage of 2 skills yet still spending the same amount of mana. And why doesn't his ult recover Mana. Whats the point of reviving with some hp and no mana. I really would love to see some changes.