Any Mordekaiser plans?

Lao Fu the Tiger·Jul 20, 2015·37 votes·37,911 views

I love .

Out of curiosity, are there any future plans to give him something that can push him a bit further towards the spotlight? I'm not sure whether or not a rework is coming soon (to be honest, I don't think he needs one), but I just wish his kit had SOMETHING that would help him out with his current problems. I was thinking like maybe even a tiny slow, or a small move speed buff (not just on his shield when he's walking towards his other shielded ally)?

I honestly have no ideas in mind at the moment, but after his damage, ghost, and HP/5 regen were nerfed, I felt like something more than his "magnetism" would be awesome without making him overbearing.

113 Comments

RiotMeddlerJul 20, 201538 votes

We're testing some really experimental changes for him at the moment that involve making it much more dangerous to be directly next to him. We have talked a lot about whether Morde should have some CC or more mobility. We concluded however that his lack of those tools was pretty definitional to his playstyle and an opportunity to potentially give him some effects we wouldn't be able to do on a more mobile champion (in the same way that Nasus for example's only allowed to have his stacking Q because he has trouble getting onto the targets he really wants).

Time wise within a month or two we should either be ready to talk about those changes in detail or be ready to say they didn't work out and we've scrapped them. Worth noting that if we do them they'll be very gameplay driven, so would only include visual changes as needed to support ability modifications. We would love to give Morde a visual upgrade in general, but have other champs that are before him in line for full overhauls.

Meep ManJul 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

We're testing some really experimental changes for him at the moment that involve making it much more dangerous to be directly next to him. We have talked a lot about whether Morde should have some CC or more mobility. We concluded however that his lack of those tools was pretty definitional to his playstyle and an opportunity to potentially give him some effects we wouldn't be able to do on a more mobile champion (in the same way that Nasus for example's only allowed to have his stacking Q because he has trouble getting onto the targets he really wants).

Time wise within a month or two we should either be ready to talk about those changes in detail or be ready to say they didn't work out and we've scrapped them. Worth noting that if we do them they'll be very gameplay driven, so would only include visual changes as needed to support ability modifications. We would love to give Morde a visual upgrade in general, but have other champs that are before him in line for full overhauls.

I hope these changes actually make him dangerous to be besides damage wise because right now I am more afraid of someone like Rengar Riven or Diana who have high damage with mobility and crowd control.

NefasJul 20, 20157 votes

{quoted}

We're testing some really experimental changes for him at the moment that involve making it much more dangerous to be directly next to him. We have talked a lot about whether Morde should have some CC or more mobility. We concluded however that his lack of those tools was pretty definitional to his playstyle and an opportunity to potentially give him some effects we wouldn't be able to do on a more mobile champion (in the same way that Nasus for example's only allowed to have his stacking Q because he has trouble getting onto the targets he really wants).

Time wise within a month or two we should either be ready to talk about those changes in detail or be ready to say they didn't work out and we've scrapped them. Worth noting that if we do them they'll be very gameplay driven, so would only include visual changes as needed to support ability modifications. We would love to give Morde a visual upgrade in general, but have other champs that are before him in line for full overhauls.

It is nice to hear that Morde isn't forgotten! I was wondering if you could maybe give a little bit about what Riot/this rework sees as Morde's primary identity? I've always felt like he was two identities working at cross-purposes, his passive which is bruiser/sustain through the fight and his ult which pushes him heavily towards bursting. I honestly don't think that Morde will be in a good spot until he has a truly dedicated focus one way or the other. Personally I would hope that you would push him towards bruiser-passive path instead of the burst-ult path, even at the expense of his ult (at least in its current form). Lack of mobility and cc will prevent the burst from ever being effective.

RiotMeddlerJul 20, 201510 votes

What we're currently testing is a more bruiser ish version of Morde, that builds somewhat tankier and doesn't have as much front loaded damage. In playtests so far he's still been able to put out quite a lot of damage in a short time frame, but he's had to ramp up to it a bit first.

FadedpfJul 20, 20156 votes

But that is why you guys said after the DFG removal and yet he is still only playable as full AP...

RiotMeddlerJul 20, 201510 votes

{quoted}

But that is why you guys said after the DFG removal and yet he is still only playable as full AP...

We did have a go at a similar approach when we were removing DFG. At that time however we only had a very brief period (one patch's worth of development) to investigate and test changes. That wasn't enough time to fix the issues we saw come up, or even investigate a decent range of approaches. We weren't confident in the results of that work as a result, so ended up pulling almost all of it. This time we're putting a solid amount of time aside for both experimentation and testing, so feel it's worth taking another swing at that direction.

DecritJul 20, 20154 votes

I know it might be too early... but what is your position about his ultimate? I know it is a real mess but is also very characteristic of him, do you plan to keep it almost untouched or to integrate it more actively in your concepts?

RiotMeddlerJul 20, 201511 votes

{quoted}

I know it might be too early... but what is your position about his ultimate? I know it is a real mess but is also very characteristic of him, do you plan to keep it almost untouched or to integrate it more actively in your concepts?

Morde's Ult will likely remain very similar to its current form.

ZarokimaJul 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Morde's Ult will likely remain very similar to its current form.

As a Morde-mid main since season 2, I honestly think too much of his power is in his ult right now. If you get a good ghost you're an absolute monster, If not you feel very weak. I would happily take a straight up stat steal (like an offensive version of Trundle's ult) instead that's weaker than a best-case ghost but far more consistent, and maybe put some power into the rest of his kit instead.

The biggest problem by far right now is his terrible early game. The health regen nerf in 5.4 was -- to be completely honest -- downright retarded. He already sucked early, but that change hurt so much I don't even consider him worth picking anymore, and only cemented his total reliance on Hextech Revolver to be able to do anything other than kill himself. Really his health costs could be completely removed without hurting his identity since they're negated with spell vamp anyway, and only serve to make the pre-Revolver stage of the game absolutely crap-tastic and then make spell vamp slightly less effective than it would be otherwise (to say nothing of the balance issues involved, though in his current state I doubt that would make him too OP).

toonpangJul 20, 20157 votes

I still feel ludicrously strong even without a ghost.

I would happily take a straight up stat steal (like an offensive version of Trundle's ult) instead that's weaker than a best-case ghost but far more consistent

No, thankyou. Mordekaiser's curse/ghost is a pretty unique and fun mechanic and should NOT be removed.

Plus the passives of ghosts, like Rengar's jump or Ashe's frost shot, have let me pull off some pretty impressive plays.

The real depth of Mordekaiser as a champion lies in his ability to effectively use killed enemies for his own ends.

dragonboy1300Jul 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

What we're currently testing is a more bruiser ish version of Morde, that builds somewhat tankier and doesn't have as much front loaded damage. In playtests so far he's still been able to put out quite a lot of damage in a short time frame, but he's had to ramp up to it a bit first.

Issue with tanky or bruiser mord is that he can't do a tank's job very well at all. Sure, he can soak damage, but then what? He has no cc, he can't peel, and if his ult doesn't give a ghost he doesn't offer much else.

zock3yJul 20, 20154 votes

{quoted}

What we're currently testing is a more bruiser ish version of Morde, that builds somewhat tankier and doesn't have as much front loaded damage. In playtests so far he's still been able to put out quite a lot of damage in a short time frame, but he's had to ramp up to it a bit first.

I hope you guys do realise that Mordekaiser in his current state optimally has a bruiser-ish build which works noticeably better than building straight damage. It's just that very few people think of going abyssal into thornmail after the usual spellvamp.

Plus, with the Will of the Ancients change Mordekaiser got nerfed considerably as your plan (if you build straight damage) should be buying every magic pen item in existence which does negate the benefit of "super spellvamp". If you grab an abyssal your heal from minions will be less than if you had 15% normal spellvamp since they'll have -20 magic resist. The Rylai/Liandries buffs were nice in theory, but building HP on Mordekaiser was never really worth it (I personally think these two items get outclassed by abyssal and zhonya due to the resistances they provide).

s LessThanThreeJul 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

What we're currently testing is a more bruiser ish version of Morde, that builds somewhat tankier and doesn't have as much front loaded damage. In playtests so far he's still been able to put out quite a lot of damage in a short time frame, but he's had to ramp up to it a bit first.

Please don't try to make him into a bruiser.

Frontliners without any hard cc are useless.

Mordekaiser is only viable as full AP and unless you give him AoE hard CC and slows he will ALWAYS be outclassed.

What makes him currently viable is his strong scaling and snowball potential as a semi-tanky sustain AP Carry

DecritJul 20, 20153 votes

I will do it just once, but if you hear noises know that those are my upvotes for you that i could not give.

It' s been a while since i preached for Morde changes, and among them I was afraid that the Devs would go with something like "ok drop some cc or uber mobility" and make it like any other, while i appreciated the ms boost on his W. And now you drop here saying that you respect his lack of mobility and CC and his presence! I love that!

I don' t take this for any kind of commitment, because changes might not happen or the team could reiterate to add some cc or mobility later on, just know that i really really liked that you guys noticed this for Morde, and even if it will not work out that way just know i really appreciate that :D

Only Play DariusJul 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

We're testing some really experimental changes for him at the moment that involve making it much more dangerous to be directly next to him.

Are you thinking of making him somewhat more like Darius ? His counterplay mainly involves never letting yourself get directly next to him, and it's part of why his playstyle can feel so oppressive in lane.

RiotMeddlerJul 20, 20159 votes

Closer to that sort of space yeah. We've got some ideas on how to reduce the 'what do I do if I'm melee against this guy' problem, we'll see how they work out though.

Teridax68Jul 20, 20158 votes

What about the flipside to that? What do you have in mind for when Morde gets matched against, say, the likes of Kalista , or Ashe or Vayne ? One of his biggest issues, along with Darius's, is that combat with them is pretty binary relative to their opponents' range, where melee champions can do very little and ranged champions can run circles around them at little risk. How would Mordekaiser approach those kinds of situations?

CupkekJul 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Closer to that sort of space yeah. We've got some ideas on how to reduce the 'what do I do if I'm melee against this guy' problem, we'll see how they work out though.

Meddler, bby

The issue with Morde is his identity crisis. He's a mage, but with a Melee spell? He's somewhat tanky, but not at all? He uses a shield to block damage, at the cost of health? So many contradictions...

Making a bruiser out of Mordekaiser is an interesting choice, however it means that unless he gets fed (Exceptionally hard for a melee based champion who uses health as his resource for abilities) he will have a VERY hard time until his core items are built.

You've stated you're trying to give him some cc or mobility. Great idea, honestly. However, there's an issue. It can't be that dinky little 'movement speed boost' when a Creeping Death'd ally is moving your way. One, that's just dumb and incredibly situational. Two, it doesn't solve Morde's problem of being a succulent target for ganks during his laning phase. Also, drop that health cost on abilities bullshit. It doesn't help him.

Unless you can 'magnetize' enemy champions to other units (hint hint) as a form of cc, or give him a dash, he's still going to suffer from the same problem he's always had: Super vulnerable laning phase and not having a true champion identity.

AuryielJul 20, 20154 votes

Please don't do that...

You'll just end up making him even worse than he is right now. The only reason he can function right now is because he has some threat outside of melee range.

What he really needs is more ways to express skill. Make his Q and W more interesting. The W change was a step in the right direction, but it wasn't enough. Morde just does 2 things. He shoves and he deals damage at close range. He has no other options. None. Give him more options.

Change the way his Q works. Make it splash differently, in a way that can be used to interact with minions smartly, like Liss Q or Sion's roar.

Scrap his W and find a new skill that is actually interesting to use.

Stuff like that. Not just ''remove damage and make him tankier and somehow hope things work out'' because they won't :| And we all know that if you touch Morde and he sucks, you'll leave him like that forever because he's... Well he's Mordekaiser.

AtheosisXJul 20, 20151 votes

Why he isn't at the top of the list for a visual upgrade is beyond me. He's arguably the ugliest champ in the game.

toonpangJul 20, 20153 votes

No, that would be my man Taric, or Irelia's face when really zoomed in.

A visual/sound upgrade would be lovely though.

What he needs is to have

Slightly more fluid movement, as in his armor pieces need to move separately a bit and rattle around.
BIGGER BODY
Special effects for his Pentakill and Dragon Knight/Infernal skins.

Pentakill needs special voice lines or sound effects, too. Infernal could do with Lava effects. Dragon Knight could have fire/smoke effects. King of Clubs Morde could get a trumpet blare to announce his arrival.

Slightly better proportioning of his armour. His legs are ten miles long, while his torso is tiny.

Raid Boss MordeJul 20, 20152 votes

Is there a possibility that his E will change or gain a new effect? As of now, it's very simple, and doesn't do much. It's just "damage in a cone", and that's it. Are you adding something interactive to this skill?

BastionKrossJul 20, 20155 votes

While I agree with your overall philosophy that Morde identity shuns mobility or cc, you need to constantly keep that in mind when coming up with his kit. If you want him to ramp up damage by being next to people for a few seconds, fine. But you must also realize that with no gapclosers or MS buffs (outside of that highly situational and weak magnetism effect) he's going to have trouble getting to ranged opponents; and with no way to pin opponents down he's going to have trouble staying next to those opponents.

How is this potential Morde going to stand next to Leblanc for more than a quarter of a second? How is he even going to get close to her? Melee champs won't be a problem since they'll willingly close to melee range, but champs that can attack from afar will have the tools to ensure your immobile, no-cc butt will never get anywhere close to them.

How are you going to give Morde the opportunity to fight those ranged and/or mobile champs without mobility or cc? Even Darius has a pull (that is very generous in who it hits), and he's cited as one of the more easy to kite champions. How will you make a Morde that won't be hopelessly kited by Ashe , let alone Kalista ?

RiotRiot ScruffyJul 20, 20157 votes

Being an immobile melee with no CC does mean that you do get kited by champs like ashe or kallista. There's two ways that we've thought about how Morde will be able to handle those types of champs/situations:

More baseline defense - Morde right now relies almost entirely on dealing damage to stay tanky, which makes him even more dead when he cant get to target. We're trying to bring up his reliable/baseline tankiness so that he can function better when he's not winning already.
Ally CC - This may sound like a bit of a cheesy answer but we really want Morde to be that much of a thread that allies and enemies will dread getting caught in CC when he's nearby. If Nami lands that bubble, it's go time for Morde.

RetillinJul 20, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Being an immobile melee with no CC does mean that you do get kited by champs like ashe or kallista. There's two ways that we've thought about how Morde will be able to handle those types of champs/situations:

More baseline defense - Morde right now relies almost entirely on dealing damage to stay tanky, which makes him even more dead when he cant get to target. We're trying to bring up his reliable/baseline tankiness so that he can function better when he's not winning already. 2. Ally CC - This may sound like a bit of a cheesy answer but we really want Morde to be that much of a thread that allies and enemies will dread getting caught in CC when he's nearby. If Nami lands that bubble, it's go time for Morde.

So the only way Mord will be good, is if his team carries him... That is basically what you are saying here. "Sorry you can't do anything in League of Mobility, so you better just be that much better than the other team seeing as how it's not close to an even playing field with you on it".

RiotRiot ScruffyJul 20, 20156 votes

It's more like if I was talking about Janna (who has a lot of CC and very little damage) I would say that she is very good with ally damage. On the food chain of League of Legends, Morde will not bring the CC himself, but he does bring the damage. That will naturally pair well with allies that bring CC.

The end result wont be any farther on the "need my team to carry me" scale than amumu, janna, jinx etc.

WarWorkJul 20, 20154 votes

{quoted}

It's more like if I was talking about Janna (who has a lot of CC and very little damage) I would say that she is very good with ally damage. On the food chain of League of Legends, Morde will not bring the CC himself, but he does bring the damage. That will naturally pair well with allies that bring CC.

The end result wont be any farther on the "need my team to carry me" scale than amumu, janna, jinx etc.

I retract my cheesy comment, however I still feel it's weak. What you said isn't a bad thing, but the thing is there are already other champions who can deal a lot of damage AND have CC AND have mobility. So I think for 2 people will play morde again for a while but things will move back to normal because Morde will still be the melee mage with tons of damage and no CC or mobility.

RiotRiot ScruffyJul 20, 20156 votes

Compared to one of those champs that does everything ok but nothing great, morde should have significantly more damage output and tankiness. That's the goal at least, and we will definitely follow up with balance changes once he's live if he ends up too strong or weak.

asamuJul 21, 20153 votes

Sounds like Old Mordekaiser before the last rework... Who was basically just brokenly OP, or useless, depending on how he did in the early-mid game (unless the game went super long, in which case he was always brokenly OP). This problem was the entire reason champions with low mobility (darius, Garen, Olaf, etc) have ended up nerfed to obscurity; if you CAN'T fight them up close because they have no mobility, you can't fight them at all (so they get nerfed), or, they have little-no burst and it is easy to chip away at their HP by abusing mobility/range (making them too weak).

This isn't going to work, and there isn't a way to make it work, so please try something else. Mobility and CC (particularly displacement/knockups, which aren't affected by tenacity. Please fix that before even trying to make another champion without mobility) are way too important in this game, and with the mobility/CC creep over the years, a team that doesn't have sufficient mobility automatically loses to a team that does, unless the team that does tries to take a straight up fight, when they never have to.

The champions that have been mentioned: Nasus, Garen, etc. are already close to unplayable in higher leagues because of their lack of mobility or CC, despite having one of them, or both in weak forms.

The only time a champion like this will work is if they are taken near last pick when there is no displacement and little mobility on the other team, and any smart team will have those things.

If you want a champion with low mobility to work, high end mobility in the game will need to be toned down a LOT first, so the differences in mobility between champions aren't so drastic.

HellioningJul 20, 20153 votes

The problem is solo queue. It's easy enough for Janna to find allies with damage, but try finding a solo queue team that has CC outside the support!

So many assassins...

KoboldJul 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

It's more like if I was talking about Janna (who has a lot of CC and very little damage) I would say that she is very good with ally damage. On the food chain of League of Legends, Morde will not bring the CC himself, but he does bring the damage. That will naturally pair well with allies that bring CC.

The end result won't be any farther on the "need my team to carry me" scale than amumu, janna, jinx etc.

It will actually as his entire laning phase will be a nightmare to play, wherein the other champions That bring damage of similar power (assuming he is intended to be Ekko's kill speed and power concept) also bring some form of utility or CC on their kits as well, If he is stronger than them damage wise he becomes a problem balance wise and we are back where we started again.

What I would have done long ago after the DFG removal is give its effect to morde's ult not fizz's.

BastionKrossJul 20, 20155 votes

First, thank you for the reply Scruffy. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss this with us.

I'm not fully on board the idea of having a champion that relies on it's allies for cc in order to have a chance against mobile/ranged champions. Champions that rely on their team for damage? Yeah, just about every champion has some significant damage. Heck, you could make champs like Bard Shen Taric output some significant punishment. Damage is easy to come by in League, so picking a champion that doesn't have much isn't a great risk, most of the time even in SoloQ. Especially if it's a support or a tank we're talking about.

However, I fear that the Morde you're describing is going to be so reliant on his team comp that he'll only be playable at the grace of your team picking champs that can lock down enemies for him. That's a worst case scenario. Would he have to lane with a Leona ? Do I insist my top laner play Nautilus or that my jungle goes Sion for Morde to be able to function? If my team has little or no cc for me, do I just not pick Morde because I'd be impotent?

Having a champion with virtually no cc or mobility is an absolutely huge drawback. Relying on your team to have a hope of being able to take on half the roster is another huge drawback. The positives would need to be very powerful to make this work. He'd need high burst and high sustained damage combined with survivability that would make a DrMundo with a item 3026 blush. He'd go back to hiding in bushes and slaughtering anyone that comes close like back when DFG was a thing; a playstyle that Riot (understandably) said they didn't want for him.

I do understand your struggle though. I don't know if there's any way to have a melee-ranged champion with next to no mobility and cc in today's League be effective. There's just too many ways of escape and avoidance now. You'd need something new and innovative to make it work. Perhaps an ulted target could never move farther than X distance away from him as long as it's ticking?

RiotRiot ScruffyJul 20, 20156 votes

It definitely is an INSANELY huge drawback to not have CC or mobility. This is in some ways the fun part because we get to compensate by giving morde some pretty cool new things.

It's true that morde will be reliant on his team to catch up to someone like ashe or kallista, but so are champs like Nasus, Garen etc.

When he isn't getting ally CC combos he is meant to have a very viable output by just fighting in the middle of a fight and hitting whatever he can. Other fighters like irelia or tanks like maokai will have to be careful around him because when he can't reach the enemy back line, he wont hesitate to unload a lot of damage on their front line.

WarWorkJul 20, 20153 votes

Becareful of giving him big damages to compensate for lack of mobility and CC. Morde already has a lot of damage and just adding more will not fix anything

PokeprofJul 20, 20152 votes

My main concern with the way Morde is being taken here is because this is kinda what got him nerfed in the first place. Morde's main thing he could do was he was able to fight in top line, get get ganked by the jungler, and come out the WINNER in these situations. While League has gotten characters with a LOT more mobility since then in champions like Lee Sin, Ekko, and Yasuo, it still sounds like Morde's suggested update might take him back to the time where a fed Morde might be capable of winning a Five vs One, especially thanks to his ultimate.

Also, might I add that everyone seems to be forgetting Crystal Scepter, especially with the buffs it got? a 40% slow on everything hit by Morde's Current E isn't anything to laugh at.

RetillinJul 20, 20152 votes

Nasus has wither, Garen has a speed boost... They both HAVE ways to close the gap.

I'm not saying he HAS to have cc, or mobility. But you can't say "well he's good as long as someone else brings that to the table". That's just crazy talk...

Praise the SonJul 20, 20152 votes

Do remember though that Morde has longer range than both of those champions (at least with e and ult), they will likely factor in the fact that he has ranged damage. However I do thoroughly understand you points and respect it.

Stars ShaperJul 20, 20152 votes

Nasus has an insane slow and Garen has speedboost with slow removal though. Unless the defenses you giv to Moredkaiser make CC him not a good choice then Morde is going to be the slow guy every1 will make fun of and end up in the Zeno's Paradox (the Tortoise and Achilles).

From the small sneak you posted I can imagine that you are going to give Syphon of Destruction (his E) a kind-of delay or pre-animation in order to give it clarity. While this sounds fine, just that change alone will be really hard to balance out because what gave Mordekaiser a chance is exactly that the enemy had to know the exact range of his E for not getting poked down.

Thanks for bringing Mordekaiser discussion on the table. I like the overall direction you are taking with him but be really careful with what you do and please keep talking about it even if this iteration fails. I thing I sincerely dislike about your (Riot's) approach on champions is that once they get X changes there is no words nor action on them unless something really broken comes out.

Again, thank you and keep up the good work.

BastionKrossJul 21, 20152 votes

Interesting. What you're saying is that Morde's damage is going to be able to pierce the heavy defenses of tanks, while his body being durable enough to stand in the middle of a teamfight right beside said tanks? The defenses of a Rammus and the damage of a Vayne ? I can get behind that.

Again Scruffy, thanks for talking with us and letting us in on your thought process on this. Understanding your POV is doing a lot to assuage our fears. Recent champion reworks have been hit or miss, so we're just being cautious and asking lots of questions.

Zair UmbrasJul 21, 20153 votes

{quoted}

It definitely is an INSANELY huge drawback to not have CC or mobility. This is in some ways the fun part because we get to compensate by giving morde some pretty cool new things.

It's true that morde will be reliant on his team to catch up to someone like ashe or kallista, but so are champs like Nasus, Garen etc.

When he isn't getting ally CC combos he is meant to have a very viable output by just fighting in the middle of a fight and hitting whatever he can. Other fighters like irelia or tanks like maokai will have to be careful around him because when he can't reach the enemy back line, he wont hesitate to unload a lot of damage on their front line.

I want to agree with you, but I really can't when it comes to comparing Morde to Nasus or Garen. Nasus at least has his Wither, which isn't CC, but its slow is scary good and we all know that. Garen may have issues with Kalista, but Ashe is a cake walk since his W reduces her slow's duration, masteries reduce the effectiveness, and his Q removes all slows, so a timed Garen Q can potentially null out a slow pretty quick. If you tag along Swifties or MercTreads, you won't be affected much by... well, nearly anything.

Hopefully he gets at least a slow or something. He's the only champion in the entire game that doesn't have a reliable slow, MS boost, or CC. His W is his only mobility and it only helps if he's BEHIND the one he W's to.

While the aim might be to make it to where he can be kited alone, it might not be a good aim. To make him reliant on his team's CC would make him almost useless when you think about it. There isn't a single champion in League of Legends that's completely reliant on their teammates to dish out the CC so that you can be useful. The best comparison would be Katarina, but she doesn't need to wait for her teammates CC to be thrown, she has to wait for her ENEMY'S CC to be thrown.

This could potentially work IF he's given some sort of stacking mechanism similar to Veig and Nasus's Q since he can't force any fights, they have to come to him. If he doesn't scale well or isn't too useful outside of team fights with heavy CC on on his team, it's possible that he could actually be ignored the entire game because AP's don't push turrets well and without the CC, he wouldn't be able to dish out what ever damage you wish to give him. If he's given stacking though, they'd HAVE to deal with him early on because otherwise he'd become a nightmare. If he gains damage, he'd be super clearing minions or jungle camps or even Baron and Dragon, which would make him fightening. Nasus and Tryndamere as split pushers are frightening because Nasus can decimate towers and Tryndamere does HUGE damage to enemies, plus he's AD so he can take the towers at a good pace. Against both, you can't let them do their thing or they'll destroy the entire base in seconds, but neither provides good CC nor reliability, much like Mordekaiser, yet neither can be ignored because of how harshly they scale.

I'm hoping Morde will get a similar treatment as Nasus, Veigar, Tryn, and others who are simply nightmares incarnate despite their lack of reliability due to lack of mobility (Nasus), lack of reliable CC (Tryn has to have them facing him and Veig's is easily walked out of before it pops), or lack of reliable abilities (Tryn's kit revolves around crit and Veig's Q, W, and E are all super, super easy to dodge, and Nasus is easily kited if you simply remove the slow with Cleanse or QSS).

terkmcJul 20, 20153 votes

is if his team carries him

Literally the case with every single role Tanks will only be good if there's a carry that carry them with damage Carry will only be good if there's a tank that carry them with peels and lock down Support will only be good if there's a carry that carry them with damage.

WarWorkJul 20, 20153 votes

Ally CC - This may sound like a bit of a cheesy answer but we really want Morde to be that much of a thread that allies and enemies will dread getting caught in CC when he's nearby. If Nami lands that bubble, it's go time for Morde.

That is a really answer, everybody benefits from ally CC. That's like saying the best way to counter a specific champions is lock them down with hard CC when hard CC counters all champions except for 2 when they have ult :/.

terkmcJul 20, 20153 votes

That is not true. Champion benefits from allied cc to differing degree. A leblanc doesnt really care for Leona 1000 year stun because she does her stuff in 1 second anw and is get out of dodge immediately, while for someone like Swain, Leona is a god send because she allows him to use his full kit, or Malzahar appreciating people ccing people inside his W and Q more than Malphite appreciate cc because he is the cc

iamleburkJul 21, 20154 votes

Just because you cant give him CC doesnt mean he cant have utility. Why dont you give him some more ally buffs akin to the magnet mechanic? He is a magic warrior King, i would expect him to increase his ally's damage output. Also, i dont see why he cant have both durability and burst; he sacrifices so much for it. If one of those kite-based champs gets in range of Morde's spells, they should pay for their bad positioning. But i agree it might make him oppressive in top melee matchups... Is there a way to make his burst better towards squishies? perhaps "ignores base MR/armor" would work. Thoughts?

RiotRiot ScruffyJul 21, 20154 votes

Great point. We are doing this in a few interesting ways so that he can bring some value to his team even if he's having a bad game.

DecritJul 21, 20152 votes

I greatly greatly support this. Hystorically his only support to the party was the ultimate' s ghost, but that worked only if they managed the kill, and the armor/mres up in the W' shield.

Now with the ms boost he has already such a bigger impact on teamfights, even if small, and i humbly suggest you to proceed on that line. Consider, if necessary for any reason, to get rid of armor/mres since is pretty much invisible, has such a low duration and reinforces one of his problems: how clearly he can benefit from different stats, since he has a lot of synergies scattered all over his kit.

Mr SlowdeathJul 21, 20152 votes

Yes please! I would love to see Mordekaiser have more of a teamfight presence and I want him to keep a niche support mechanic on his W (see Nunu W). Some things off the top of my head that I can say/ask about his abilities:

Passive - Iron Man - Have you considered any alternatives to this, such as a flat amount of shield + ratio on damaging an enemy? I see this as the reason for HP spell costs - are those staying? I also see this as the reason his base stats feel lopsided. This shield functions like a Bloodthirster, which is awkward because AP champions don't build Bloodthirster. I'm sure there's a better alternative out there.

Q - Mace of Spades - I like the isolation mechanic, but it does lose some impact without mobility, so if mobility leaves Morde's kit entirely, what helps isolation? On the other hand, I do believe that the isolation mechanic on an immobile champion justifies Crowd Control or another effect that's equally impactful like a debuff (see Trundle Q).

W - Creeping Death - So mobility leaves and something else joins? I like that, although, it was really REALLY useful to have the mobility. So like others I'm hoping this remains a unique tank/support ally&self buff of some kind (misery loves company). Just be careful not to re-create Galio!

E - Siphon of Destruction - You guys mentioned Nasus and scaling for a reason, and I hope this is where we see it. Because this cone damage whenever possible gameplay is so unexciting. "Passive - Whenever Siphon of Destruction kills an enemy, the ability permanently gains % magic penetration and % spellvamp." Something like that?

R - Children of the Grave - Nothing to say about this spell, because it's really complicated to give or take anything from a champion's Ultimate.

UltîmaJul 20, 20151 votes

Hey Meddler, I know artwork isn't your department, but is there anything you can impart to us regarding visual changes to Mordekaiser? As one of the oldest champions I feel there's a lot of directions you guys could take him that would make him feel amazing. I vaguely remember there being a thread where it was said that you were looking at ways to make him seem a bit more in-line with the other Shadow Isles champion. Will Mord be a kind of "Phantom Armor", possessed by a powerful spirit, or are you guys going in a different direction?

RiotRiot ScruffyJul 20, 20157 votes

This time around he wont be getting the full shabang (like sion or GP) but he will be getting some small visual love to represent some of the new gameplay that he's getting. Overall it'll be mostly upgraded spell VFX.