I mean these players are S2 and go 2/15. Are Blind to the mini map. Dont Ping unless its to Ping an Ally for not running in and Dying with them. Will have a Ward score of 0-2 at 15m. HOW THE F&^K DID THEY GET TO S2?
These are Iron 4 Players and I see at least 2 in EVERY Match.
Riots MMR system is such SHEIT.
DuskDaUmbreon12 votesThis is literally no different than before tho?
5050BS7 votesNo its very different. Upper Silver had players that knew macro at least some of it.
I cant Imagine what Bronze and Iron is like. Riot really f&*ked up the MMR of the lower Tiers.
usul12029 votesNo one in silver knows macro, if they did then they wouldn't be silver. You're nostalgia glasses-ing the elo.
Lauchmelder3 votesTo be fair he's probably talking about the people in silver who quickly climbed out of it.
Beacon Academy1 votesYou don't have to.
There is literally a twitch channel dedicated to watching & gambling on iron tier games
Malix Farwin12 votesPeople are forgetting that MMR was messed up at the start of the season with the provisional rank changes that got reverted. They gave people their highest MMR role without re-adjusting anything other than higher elo(why they felt that only high elo needed the adjustment is beyond me). Thats why you are seeing massive skill gaps within the same elos. Yes Silver players know nothing about Macro that point is true but why am i getting fresh 30s and players who have no idea about macro in my gold games? The answer is that the MMR system is jacked atm.
BigBellBrute2 votes[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4NKlp3qA,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-08-12T16:21:13.171+0000)
People are forgetting that MMR was messed up at the start of the season with the provisional rank changes that got reverted. They gave people their highest MMR role without re-adjusting anything other than higher elo(why they felt that only high elo needed the adjustment is beyond me). Thats why you are seeing massive skill gaps within the same elos. Yes Silver players know nothing about Macro that point is true but why am i getting fresh 30s and players who have no idea about macro in my gold games? The answer is that the MMR system is jacked atm.
Well if you look at things, The 50th percentile occurs somewhere in Silver 1. That means that's about average. Well Elo systems usually start people at average and if they lose, they quickly start to fall, if they win, they rise. So that's why you see a lot of new entries in Silver.
Buckeye20021 votesyeah, that's really stupid. They need to start new players at the bottom and let them work their way out....if they are good enough to be silver, they can crush iron easy.
Jhinfamously1 votes[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4NKlp3qA,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-08-12T16:21:13.171+0000)
People are forgetting that MMR was messed up at the start of the season with the provisional rank changes that got reverted. They gave people their highest MMR role without re-adjusting anything other than higher elo(why they felt that only high elo needed the adjustment is beyond me). Thats why you are seeing massive skill gaps within the same elos. Yes Silver players know nothing about Macro that point is true but why am i getting fresh 30s and players who have no idea about macro in my gold games? The answer is that the MMR system is jacked atm.
Honestly I had a similar notion but could never put it to words. I absolutely believe this is what happened. They let people KEEP the highest rank achieved during the time of position matchmaking and I 100% think that this was a mistake.
Xonra3 votesYup, had a 27% winrate first time Twitch with 20 games total played in ranked in my Gold game a few games ago.
The matchmaking is fucked.
BlueBilberry11 votesStrange. In past years, Silver players didn't know macro. They usually had a grasp of mechanics - but knew little about objective play, minion farming, lane priority or channeling a kill in one lane into a larger team advantage. From what I have seen, they still do the same as irons and bronzes and do blind arams at mid once the mid tier 2 tower falls. They also call out group when there is a Tryndamere or similar split pusher on their team and don't play according to their comps.
To be honest, I don't think Silver hasn't changed that much.
Pxerkza7 votesit won't get better for you in diamond you will be playing with the same people but with a diamond border
preternatural4 votesreset ranked
Kai Guy3 votesI have been around from season 1. I have never Seen a year where the majority of stuck in Silver did not fail at macro.
You also don't seem to grasp what a rank represents. Here is a hint. Last year you could have 27 different titles for your account. This year Riot "changed" things and you can have up to... 27 different titles for your account.
The most dramatic difference would be that the standard Tiers by losing Division 5 results in each Division this year representing 25% of a class interval rather then the prior seasons 20%. Assuming Riot did the logical method of Developing MMR titles.
The only question is if riot adjusted the MMR range values their system had... which.... makes 0 impact on MMR or MM but it would affect your "Rank."
So... match quality would not be impacted at all but your perception of it built off your rank would... which hey was why they made MMR invisible in the first place. Turns out most folks don't take the time to learn about the system.
Best Ekko NA3 votes[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4NKlp3qA,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-08-12T09:09:13.624+0000)
I have been around from season 1. I have never Seen a year where the majority of stuck in Silver did not fail at macro.
You also don't seem to grasp what a rank represents. Here is a hint. Last year you could have 27 different titles for your account. This year Riot "changed" things and you can have up to... 27 different titles for your account.
The most dramatic difference would be that the standard Tiers by losing Division 5 results in each Division this year representing 25% of a class interval rather then the prior seasons 20%. Assuming Riot did the logical method of Developing MMR titles.
The only question is if riot adjusted the MMR range values their system had... which.... makes 0 impact on MMR or MM but it would affect your "Rank."
So... match quality would not be impacted at all but your perception of it built off your rank would... which hey was why they made MMR invisible in the first place. Turns out most folks don't take the time to learn about the system.
Except you are wrong about "perception", it's not a matter of perception, it's a reality that players in Silver are statistically worse this year than last year. How do I know this? It's simple, take a look at the distribution of players in each rank.
At the end of last season Silver and Bronze had almost an equal amount of players, both sitting somewhere around 30%.Meanwhile, Gold was only around 18 -20% of the total player base. Take a look at this years data thus far:
https://na.op.gg/statistics/tier/
The amount of players in both Gold and Platinum as gone up this year, especially for Gold tier. The amount of total players in Gold has gone up roughly 8% since the end of last season, and the amount of players in Platinum tier almost 4% since last year. Last year when a player was Silver 1, they were in the top 47-48% of players. This year when you hit Silver 1, you are in the top 54% of players (meaning you are still well below the top 50%).
50% as a percentile is generally considered average, and in the past reaching Silver 1 made you an above average player. This season, reaching Silver 1 still places you well below average.
So, you are saying that nothing changed, but that's not correct. Something did indeed change somewhere, but as to what that is no one can ever know unless they were able to see how the matchmaking algorithm is coded to figure out why there are abnormalities in the player distribution compared to previous seasons.
Kai Guy1 votesFair enough I worded things badly.
27 different titles for your account. This year Riot "changed" things and you can have up to... 27 different titles for your account. The only question is if riot adjusted the MMR range values their system had... which.... makes 0 impact on MMR or MM but it would affect your "Rank."
So the main issue is players instantly treat Rank = Skill. They don't check for uncertainty. They don't account for how ridiculously massive Riots Demotion protection is.
So the distributions this year have pooled at Div 4 across the board. Nothing new, used to pool at Div 5. Issues on the distribution still seem to be related to how Riot implemented Positional Ques.... My opinion is they decided to let accounts keep their old "rank" which sets a different expectation for MMR ranges in the current and prior season. Hence why I called it just player perception. Even prior to this year i have been of the opinion that ranks basically a distraction and worth near nothing until you have low uncertainty, it really does not make much impact, thou.... it would be dishonest of me to not point out Duo restrictions as possibly relevant. I have a strong negative Bias in how Riot implements Duoing.
The reason i think rank Is such a weak metric is formed from how Riot literally stated that one of the reasons they liked the "Leauge" system (Compared to a "Team Elo") is it hides that half the players will basically only ever sink from their starting MMR and that having clear Goals and not seeing X of 1 million+ Accounts resulted in higher ranked participation. People feel better saying "I am Gold!" Compared to "im in 356,987Th place" or "I am 1457 point player"
End of the day what I wanted to convey is its not gonna impact MM the way murder seems to think it will. Rn=Ro+K(W-We). WE is gonna be related to the distribution model and that does not care about some ones "rank" Just their MMR.
The concept of a class interval is pretty simple even if the values are arbitrary. So I don't agree with the statement that theres some massive influx of Iron 4 skill players in Silver 1 & 2. Its Antidotal but As a consistent player from the first year, bad macro in silver tends to be the norm rather then something new and would never make a strong player get hard stuck into silver MMR after say... 600+ games.
5050BS2 votesAnd yet Im constantly Promoting (with a HUGE struggle) and demoting at a drop of a hat because the MMing is such shit. Iv been playing Ranked for many years and S9 MMing is the worst I have seen. I know how S3-G4(5) players play and what Im getting on my teams is B5 players.
There is no carrying them. Win/losing is out of my control. What I AM seeing is that when I push through to a promotion Riots MMing is LITERALLY stacking the enemy teams and my teams to Demote me.
When my team has me and one other with Positive KDA and the other three are 2/15 there is something Wrong.
Dukues5 votesAnd yet Im constantly Promoting (with a HUGE struggle) and demoting at a drop of a hat because the MMing is such shit. Iv been playing Ranked for many years and S9 MMing is the worst I have seen. I know how S3-G4(5) players play and what Im getting on my teams is B5 players.
There is no carrying them. Win/losing is out of my control. What I AM seeing is that when I push through to a promotion Riots MMing is LITERALLY stacking the enemy teams and my teams to Demote me.
When my team has me and one other with Positive KDA and the other three are 2/15 there is something Wrong.
Yea dude this is the thing that really bothers me. After spending many seasons in silver and then consistently getting out in a couple of seasons and on multiple accounts & roles I knew how players in this elo thought/looked. Then season 8 hit & season 9 and holy fuck. I think a lot of it does have to do with how snowball and damage creep the game has become.... but still.... there is always like a true legit should never have gotten out of bronze players in every game. And they just fuck their team so hard..... even in like gold-silver 1 its like "how the fuck is this player not in bronze". ALMOST EVERY GAME! I just don't get how that's possible.... it never used to be this bad AND THIS IS AFTER ADDING IRON FOR NEW PLAYERS.
Honestly I have nightmares thinking of silver elo. It's so funny because I am gold 1 and most likely going to get plat this season and just thinking people stuck in silver would see me as a "smurf" most likely makes me lol because my 2nd account is currently been getting shit stomped in silver lol. Granted.... it does have high gold mmr but... fuck man lol. Even if it had silver mmr shit would still be super annoying. There i just no consistency game to game, which makes it hard for players like me who are more macro/team focused rather than just 1v9 hard carry. LIke don't get me wrong... when I get a fucking nice lead I abuse the fuck out of silvers and you can tell I am definitely around (well season 9 plat). But it not always super easy to get that huge lead when your team trash and your down like 5-20 at 10 mins and your all 5 kills lol.
Jhinfamously2 votesYea dude this is the thing that really bothers me. After spending many seasons in silver and then consistently getting out in a couple of seasons and on multiple accounts & roles I knew how players in this elo thought/looked. Then season 8 hit & season 9 and holy fuck. I think a lot of it does have to do with how snowball and damage creep the game has become.... but still.... there is always like a true legit should never have gotten out of bronze players in every game. And they just fuck their team so hard..... even in like gold-silver 1 its like "how the fuck is this player not in bronze". ALMOST EVERY GAME! I just don't get how that's possible.... it never used to be this bad AND THIS IS AFTER ADDING IRON FOR NEW PLAYERS.
Honestly I have nightmares thinking of silver elo. It's so funny because I am gold 1 and most likely going to get plat this season and just thinking people stuck in silver would see me as a "smurf" most likely makes me lol because my 2nd account is currently been getting shit stomped in silver lol. Granted.... it does have high gold mmr but... fuck man lol. Even if it had silver mmr shit would still be super annoying. There i just no consistency game to game, which makes it hard for players like me who are more macro/team focused rather than just 1v9 hard carry. LIke don't get me wrong... when I get a fucking nice lead I abuse the fuck out of silvers and you can tell I am definitely around (well season 9 plat). But it not always super easy to get that huge lead when your team trash and your down like 5-20 at 10 mins and your all 5 kills lol.
Your experience matches mine right down to the smurf account getting shit stomped in a much lower elo than my main account. It really sucks my desire to play this game nearly as much as I used to (and I've been addicted to this game for years).
Dukues1 votesYour experience matches mine right down to the smurf account getting shit stomped in a much lower elo than my main account. It really sucks my desire to play this game nearly as much as I used to (and I've been addicted to this game for years).
Yea I have no desire to play on alts anymore. Which.... I guess is ok considering smurfs are really annoying but I am not that good anyways and usually just played on alts to try different roles & champs. But I legit just have no desire to do that anymore is the games are so random and 1 sided so often it's not even fun to play at all lol.
eunekid4202 votesFriendly tip: If you really want to climb in ranked, I recommend you to do the following things:
Don't waste energy on tantruming about irrelevant things such as teammates or Riot's matchmaking.
Realize you are probably not as good player as you think. Noticing and accepting your own flaws is the first (and only) step to improvement.
Play to win. Many players only want to maximize their KDAs/Damage dealt and they believe those factors alone will make them win. No. After all, League of Legends is still a strategy game, where every little action and decision matters. Good players think what they should do next in order to win the game instead of just staring at the scoreboard.
Learn the game. Tip number 3 requires a change of mindset but also a lot of game knowledge. It's essential to understand concepts like META, wave management, priority and how each role, champion and matchup works. Before the game even begins, you should come up with an ingame plan based on your analysis. Once the match gets rolling, every move you do should have a valid reason why you commit it. There are some fine guides on Youtube you can have a look at, such as Skillcapped or Pro Guides. They might help you on this matter.
Take your time. No-one gets superior skills instantly. Practise with the correct mindset, and you will learn and get better for sure.
Buckeye20021 votesThe problem with these is 3 and 4 are nonfactors if you're the only player on your team with a clue. I don't know how many times I have a bot lane that is 4-1, but has zero damage to the enemy tower and loses their tower first......I mean cmon.
Dukues1 votesYea I am sad about this, although it makes it easier for me to hit plat now but... I know plat 4 isn't really even old plat 5 so it saddens me :(. But assuming I do get to plat 4 I doubt I will have enough energy or care to try and hit plat 3 and "True" Plat. Already getting tired of the grind in damn gold 1 lol. W L W L W L L W W L. Guess I am about right where I belong.... just sick of caring but when you so close to the next tier you feel forced to keep playing.
Hi im 123 votesthe fuck are you talking about? silver players now would be at least plat a few seasons back, everyone has gotten better, low elo is nowhere near as garbage as it used to be.
Beerstein1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hi im 12,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4NKlp3qA,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-08-12T14:18:36.947+0000)
the fuck are you talking about? silver players now would be at least plat a few seasons back, everyone has gotten better, low elo is nowhere near as garbage as it used to be.
This guy is right, Silver players are actually pretty good at the game. Yes they're garbage compared to diamond etc. etc. but as far as a game in general goes, they're pretty damn good. The player base as a whole is pretty refined (AKA old)
OPNoobCrusher3 voteson another account, me trying to get to iron placed me in silver 2. so you are probably getting actual iron players
CallMeAxel1233 votesGrandmaster and Iron were not needed. Both should be removed.
GodlyBane3 votesSEASON 8 PART 2 BB
Kendren12 votesYa I dont remember ever being able to have expectations that could be reasonably met while playing in silver. Players down there could be literally any level of bad, seeing as how its been the starting point where new players get placed since forever.
Darkdemon6532 votesI mean these players are S2 and go 2/15. Are Blind to the mini map. Dont Ping unless its to Ping an Ally for not running in and Dying with them. Will have a Ward score of 0-2 at 15m. HOW THE F&^K DID THEY GET TO S2?
These are Iron 4 Players and I see at least 2 in EVERY Match.
Riots MMR system is such SHEIT.
And now think of how bad the people below them must be. Ranks demonstrate relative skill, not absolute skill. Silver 2 doesn't mean having a skill level of 8000; it just means being better than the lesser ranks and worse than the higher ranks.
Xonra2 votesI just made a post a bit ago how I hit gold with a +50% winrate and a few games in I'm suddenly matched up against a bronze 2 with 27% winrate (I thought it was 32 at the time but it didn't update properly when the game started).
27% winrate bronze in a gold mmr game while they are bronze rank.
The matchmaking makes no sense this season and Riot doesn't care unless it is masters or challenger. The other 98% of the game just aren't important to them anymore.
MuminsAreGreat1 votesIm going to take a guess here... I think Iron´s could be rather new players and they still try therefore play decent while the silvers have played for a rather long time and is more fed up with the community and Riot´s BS and they don´t care at all and therefore play really bad. Just a guess though. If you are even right I dunno.
Get mad ur bad1 votesI never played rank that much in past season, iv got to like gold pretty simple when i tried and always got silver out of prov games. I actually wanted to climb this season and im at plat 4(might stop because of what happened to me in gold 1). I got placed b1 this season on this fresh account, skipped s4 ,s2,g3, was climbing easy , ever since i hit silver 1/gold i was facing plat 4s every game , i hit gold one and still was facing plat 3/4s with some plat twos very rare and i failed promo's for plat 3 times and dropped to 30 lp two different times in gold 1 and i was confused because i was facing the same rank. I also took a hit in my overall win rate and win rations on my champs.. SOME PEOPLE IN MY GAME WERE SO BAD it was a 100% boosted account or someones little brother was playing for the first time. I could probably get high plat , maybe even d4 if i kept grinding rank but i think it gives me more cancer in my brain.
FSRER1 votesWell, you see even silver skilled players up at lcs (C9 worlds 2018, im looking straight at you)
5050BS1 votesHey Riot Looks like Iron and Grand Master was a waste of time to implement and caused WAY more problems then it fixed.