I can't imagine what it's like to be new....

Space Bum·Jan 28, 2015·78 votes·5,666 views

Cassiopia was just released when I started playing. The pool as a whole was much smaller. The meta was still forming. Yi ADC was a thing. Annie was always mid. Mord was a pentakill machine.

Memorizing the abilities and knowing what to expect ffrom every champion in the pool is 80% of the process of becoming good at league.

Who is Cho? Why did he just insta kill me? I am a tank!

I suggest adding a drop down box in the load screen for each champ. The box would contain NEED TO KNOW info about the champs capabilities. "Ashe : perma slow, long range stun". Keep it short. Keep new players.

82 Comments

AccountaBilabudyJan 28, 201546 votes

ARAMs should have every champion unlocked so new players can experience them sometimes, and playing against them.
Death Recap screens need to be completely redone. They need to be more specific about what champ did what damage to you, how much, and what ability caused the damage with a description of the ability on the death recap screen.

ReaperOfSouls16Jan 29, 20154 votes

I think RIOT would benefit by if not unlocking all champs in ARAM(they don't want to be similar to DOTA), then at least letting people try out champs in a custom game before purchase. You do get like 3 undos in the store, but with around 100 champions that number becomes insignificant.

hisPetMunkeyJan 28, 20158 votes

I'm a new player (7 weeks) It took a couple weeks to learn the champs, but that's what the grind to 30 did for me. Also, when a champ kills you in game, you can hover your cursor over their name in the death recap pop-up and it gives you hints about them and how to counter. This is true for up to 3 damaging enemies in your death.

:-)

Space BumJan 28, 201514 votes

If I were new i would like to get the hint before it kills me.....

hisPetMunkeyJan 28, 20152 votes

Lol don't get me wrong, I can see your side of this discussion... but I learned best by making mistakes. When a better player than me (which I hate to admit is probably a good majority) kill me, I learn better. The skills that are used, HOW they are used i.e. combos, movement etc...

Space BumJan 28, 20152 votes

I have introduced this game to quite a few people. Maybe a 4th of them have stuck around. The main issue I am trying to tackle here is lightening the "WTF?!" moments.

I'm not suggesting a way to make instant pros. This game has a steep learning curve and this could just be a small step in speeding up the process.

NarasimhaJan 28, 20151 votes

Experience is the best teacher.

kwikluckJan 29, 20151 votes

All the arguments ^_^

JevelFaithfulJan 28, 20152 votes

EDIT : my toughts were all over the place in the original message, so I'm rewriting it.

I like the idea behind what you propose, but not what you propose.

As a newer player and even as a 3 year player, I'd sometimes like to go and check a particular champion's kit before the game (because I've never played them and wanna know exactly how their combo lines up or what's their 4th skill or passive). But I don't think you can really condense a champion's whole kit into a short and efficient enough package for a new player. In your ashe example, you're pretty much forgetting that she has vision (something that will really confuse you when you play her or when you start to play with brush and you get revealed) and that her volley is actually very long range. Another example is Azir or Zed, are you able to condense what there is to know about those champion in a single line? I'm not sure it's possible. THey have basically both skills and mecanics to explain.

I also think this will not help mature players (say, level 30, 1 year of play with a decent knowledge under his belt) at all. While the skills description would help a lot more player and more information.

But I also think that the biggest source of info is the death recap. It tells you specifically what killed you, how, and ignores those champs that didn't actually matter. Just the info you need, about who you need.

Space BumJan 28, 20153 votes

I think many people are talking about advanced algebra when I am talking about the ABC's. The load Screen is downtime that could be used more effectively.

I'm not saying to post an entire "road to challenger" guide. Just VERY SIMPLE tips for newer players.

I have been begging for load screen chat for as long as I can remember!

JunkοJan 28, 20152 votes

Too bad most of them are outdated.

FluxBoundJan 28, 20152 votes

oh man, If only I had blocked that revive!

exiledFromBadmenJan 29, 20151 votes

It still says that Shyvana should get a TF in order to slow enemies...

City of TorontoJan 28, 20157 votes

That's what levels 1-29 are for. Such descriptions could be the most misleading thing ever. It enforces a certain playstyle.

Space BumJan 28, 20156 votes

What is misleading about telling someone a champ has an AOE stun?

City of TorontoJan 28, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Like Hugs,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4IONf0PF,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-01-28T14:57:19.839+0000)

What is misleading about telling someone a champ has an AOE stun?

"Ashe: Perma slow, long range stun"

Perma slow if auto attacking and draining mana every attack, or spamming volley with enough cdr? Longe range stun that is a global skillshot, that could be a close range stun as well?

All they need to know is in the skill description already, and things like that can be misleading because they suggest a certain playstyle, which newbs will be likely to stick to as the "only correct way".

Space BumJan 28, 20153 votes

To each their own I guess

OrbvJan 28, 20152 votes

Those description shortcomings could be extended to "Global ranged, linear traveling stun" and "Slowing Auto Attacks". The fact that the abilities have cooldowns, mana costs, require aim are things that you actually need to learn playing the game. Yes there is the death recap, which has general hints on what to do and what not to do (which isn't that already enforcing how they should be played?) But for new players, they get no idea whatsoever about their enemy unless they read about every champion before playing at all, watched videos or were killed. Giving two warnings about a champion will help players get an idea of what to prepare for. You can't honestly memorize that many concerns unless you are experienced.

Also Riot is already pushing champions into specific roles. It is foolish to tell new players that "Anything goes, have fun, some champions can do everything". In reality, they will be stomped by the overwhelming number of smurfs because they do not already have a competitive grasp on their opponents. Facing bots will only get you so far against the optimal way to play.

RaptameiJan 28, 20159 votes

{quoted}

That's what levels 1-29 are for. Such descriptions could be the most misleading thing ever. It enforces a certain playstyle.

There is nothing wrong with teaching players how to play this game. The meta is not mechanically enforced, but it is obviously the way the game is played and the lack of any tutorial on the subject results in toxicity.

Would you not tell young soccer players that there are 10 field players and a goalie per team?

kwikluckJan 29, 20151 votes

Would they not catch onto that during practice. when each team has 10 players and a goalie. Besides, that is like saying there are 5 players per team in SR. That tells them nothing about roles and purposes of those roles. Strategies, goals, or enemies abilities. Also, in your example, in a game the coach only tells you about the skills he has noticed in the opposing team as he sees it and if you don't seem to catch on by yourself. Meaning ... Death Recap. I, as an experienced player, know who killed me and what type and amount of damage it was. Most of that was playing all the roles. and building the items. Rarely do I look at the death recap unless I get completely melted and don't know why.

rtbf221651412Jan 28, 20159 votes

{quoted}

That's what levels 1-29 are for. Such descriptions could be the most misleading thing ever. It enforces a certain playstyle.

Please tell me you don't seriously believe 1-29 is long enough to learn every champion.

FunkyyCatJan 28, 20153 votes

No, but the main "meta" champion pool that you need to learn consists of max 40 champions. Also remember that he gets access to a variety of free champions for him to try out every week, and that leveling to 30 is one hell of a grind. Also, for anyone who really wants to learn the game quickly, the wiki is easily accessible with every champion right on its front page. There really is no excuse to not knowing at least 60% of the champions by level 30, and that is well enough.

Drunk RummateJan 28, 20154 votes

I started in January of last year and I feel like it took me about 8 months to start feeling like I understand most champions in this game.

Granted, a big part of that is simply not having access to them until they're bought or free, and I don't often spend time on free champs since I'm learning the ones I do own. I did learn a TON about champions I don't often play by doing ARAM though.

JunkοJan 28, 20153 votes

Tbh we just need to redo the death recap and improve the champion tips.

I learned through champ spotlights and overall picking champions that i felt like looked cool and i got stomped by (like Cho'gath, back then he was massive at 6 stacks compared to older champions so i bought and learned him). Back then tips were actually relevant, the death recap worked and there weren't many smurfs.

KamuJan 28, 20152 votes

Holy crap a post and it's not about the Patch?? I like you.

Space BumJan 28, 20152 votes

Just don't hug me, please.

KealiosJan 28, 20152 votes

I remember my very first game. Actually, it was my first day or two. I came out of the tutorial and started up the "Beginner vs AI" game mode. I probably took Ashe, or maybe it was Aatrox...anyway, I went...somewhere. And got yelled at. I didnt know about lane assignments or meta (tanks go where?) and I didnt know about the jungle. I didnt know why we shouldnt all just rush mid (and thanks to Team Builder, I got to learn first hand why not lol).

I've considered introducing friends to the game, but without being on voice chat with them :P

the Anarchit3chtJan 28, 20152 votes

I learned every champion before I even hit level 20. Sure, I might not understand them as I would a champion I main but I'll see someone like Darius and say: "Ok, he can pull me in, slow me, and has an execute with a reset. I need to be careful when I'm low health around him." Or I can see someone like Elise and say, "Okay, she has a stun, strong burst damage, and a nifty escape that she can use--if for nothing else, to refresh her cool downs or wait for a teammate to arrive." I'll see someone like Olaf and realize "He's low health, but he gets stronger when he is low health so I might not want to fight him unless I'm sure I can burst him down." If a Fiddlesticks wanders out of the bush I'll know that "His drain gives him obscene health regen and unless I have a way to apply grievous wounds or disrupt his healing I shouldn't fight him!"

That being said, I don't agree with the loading screen. They do have in game "tips for playing/playing against this champion" that I think could severely be improved/expanded upon.

Stark6000Jan 28, 20152 votes

you think that's the worst part about new players? How about the fact this it will take a year to unlock a handful of even the cheapest champions and a rune page?

insane really

I have almost every champion but if i lost my account somehow I'd never come back.

Space BumJan 28, 20153 votes

Riot Games is first and foremost a business. No one would buy Champs if they were easy to get.

Unreal1Jan 29, 20151 votes

Of course they have to make money, but that doesn't mean they have to implement a terrible pricing model to do so. Especially with a game with such a large playerbase. Obviously more fair models have proven to be profitable.

Stark6000Jan 30, 20151 votes

exactly! instead they will lost customers because nobody wants to grind like it's final fantasy 11. I don't know anybody that pays cash for champions. It's a dated idea.

Space BumJan 30, 20151 votes

I used to before I hit the point where there is nothing else to spend IP on and I always have enough if I want the new Champs that come out. Champs and skins are most definitely the most popular RP purchases. They would have to be fools to drop the price or offer them for free. The game itself is free to play. That in mind a new player should not have a problem taking the $60+ they would spend on any other game with this much content and use it to initially buy a large pool of Champs considering some of the very low RP prices on Champs crated over a year ago with a few choice new ones as you like. Then you consider that games that are maintained this way have historically had a $15 per month charge attached to them. That is a decent amount of monthly RP.

This is a free to play game and beggars can't be choosers. I have spent $100's of dollars on this game and I have no regrets.

Stark6000Jan 30, 20151 votes

You mentioned $60. I thought that was a good example because i can buy complete games that are incredibly acclaimed for that amount. I can literally buy almost any game, or steam sales will net you 3 or 4 great games for that amount. But no, in league it will get you < 10% of the playable content.

Space BumJan 30, 20151 votes

Of those games has any been worked on and managed for so long? Riot game IS League of Legends. Countless man hours don't happen without adequate compensation.

ThePlasticSporkJan 29, 20152 votes

Or new players could just, you know, look at abilities.

Having to learn what things do is just part of pretty much every videogame imaginable. The truth is that Ashe is more complex than "perma slow, long range stun", and Cho is more complex than "Tons of HP, eats people for tons of damage". Riot would NEVER be able to explain what a champion does in 2 short sentences, so it's ultimately just up to the player to learn either through playing or just looking at the champions abilities.

It'd be like playing a fighting game and in an attempt to help new players out, MvC describes Zero as "Zips around everywhere, kills you if he touches you" or KOFXIII describing Claw Iori as "Rushes opponents down, highly damaging combos". Like, yeah sure, it's technically true, but it doesn't help new players because they have no idea how those concepts are applied or even how exactly the champion does it.

Space BumJan 29, 20151 votes

Every champ has a bread and butter concept that can be summed up. Ashe is a kiter with a long range stun, sure there is more to her than that, but think back to your early levels and I'm guessing those were the only traits that mattered . I don't want to promote surfing for the purpose of griefing noobs, but if you ever manage to get into a true all level 5 game. You can tell they need all the help they can get.

trexmixGJan 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Like Hugs,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4IONf0PF,comment-id=00170000,timestamp=2015-01-29T00:59:52.718+0000)

Every champ has a bread and butter concept that can be summed up. Ashe is a kiter with a long range stun, sure there is more to her than that, but think back to your early levels and I'm guessing those were the only traits that mattered . I don't want to promote surfing for the purpose of griefing noobs, but if you ever manage to get into a true all level 5 game. You can tell they need all the help they can get.

in your early levels you would not have known what to do against a "kiter with a long range stun" and that is the problem. league is always going to have a learning curve; thats part of the game.

ThePlasticSporkJan 29, 20151 votes

The problem being that oversimplification is misleading. For example, Ashe's kit is designed to kite, but most new players don't really know how exactly her kit = kiting, if they even know what kiting means.

They won't know off the bat that Ashe's main method of kiting doesn't affect dashes or blinks, while similarly they won't know off the bat that Kalista is also a kiting champion, but just kites in a different way, and hers DOES affect dashes or blinks. They also won't know how to effectively cancel the useless portion of auto attack animations (especially not on purpose), which is really what kiting mostly boils down to, and is something that EVERY ranged champion can do, not just Ashe.

What exactly is a long range stun to a new player? Can she just stun people at range whenever she wants? Is it a skillshot? Does it stun multiple people or just one? How long range is it? If it's a "long range" stun, can she use it at close range? Etc etc.

And that's just with one of the simplest champions in the game. I don't even know how you'd begin to simplify Azir, Zed, or any of the newer champions.

THEN we get into the fact that oversimplification leads to overlap. Talon and Zed are largely meant to fulfill the same role, but are somewhat different in how they do so. If we were to implement such an idea, players would get the idea that two champions that are radically different are somewhat similar.

Going back to the fighting game example, anybody who's never played MvC3 or KOFXIII is going to have absolutely NO idea how Zero or Claw Iori really operates based on those descriptions alone, even though more experienced players will know what that means and what that character really does based on experience alone.

MegarolfJan 29, 20152 votes

...

KFrostJan 28, 20151 votes

i think the problem with new players is all the people making smurfs

i myself have smurfs but only to play with people i know who arnt very good, and i try to help out new players and keep assholes off their backs

but some people expect the entire lobby to be smurfs and will batter them with hostility.

Ramz1672Jan 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Klien Kurai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4IONf0PF,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2015-01-28T23:05:07.772+0000)

i think the problem with new players is all the people making smurfs

i myself have smurfs but only to play with people i know who arnt very good, and i try to help out new players and keep assholes off their backs

but some people expect the entire lobby to be smurfs and will batter them with hostility.

Lol. I totally agree. I was battered with hostility when I first started playing this game. Now I'M the smurf in the no-elo section, trying to help out the newbies. Unfortunately, there ARE those people who think they're so good coz they're smurfs.

ZoofJan 29, 20151 votes

You could have things super simple that just state what a champion does, for example; Zed: Ad Assassin, Able to do a lot of damage to a single target. Cho'Gath: CC tank with a strong true damage ultimate. Azir: Ap caster, able to zone enemies and deal large sums of damage when near soldiers. Annie: Ap burst mage that can do lots of damage very quickly, also has a stun. Malzahar: Ap combo mage that does lots of DoT and has a suppression.

Like I know these are pretty terrible and I just woke up, but that's a rough idea where it says what they should be playing as (cho can go full ap if he wants, but most go tanky) and then gives a brief view of kit, so the player can look at say, oh ok so Azir needs hit me with soldiers to do any real damage, Zed has good single target burst, Annie is a burst mage and as a result, gives them a light view on what the character does.

I'm sure there are double cases where say Ezreal can go ap or ad, but then again you could shorten it all the same Ezreal: able to go ad or ap. Ad Ezreal has good poke and is hard to catch. Ap Ezreal has very large burst and a high damaging global ultimate.

Idk just throwing ideas around, I would like this feature though, especially because when I play with new friends, I have to explain almost everything about the enemies kit before they fight them otherwise it's a death sentence (Why did I die to Zed 3 seconds later, how did he get out, why is Fizz invulnerable, Why does akali keep flashing onto me etc.)

KidKaiserJan 29, 20151 votes

revise the pre game tip so it actually shows tips on loading champions instead of "u lose 33% more games if you are negative", "Graves smokescreen taunts Noct if u land it on him", etc.

that graves taunt nocturne will get new players all "i want to try this so bad !" does nothing to help improve their game tho

along with Draven catching opposing Draven axes. and some other useless info.

KlNG ACEJan 29, 20151 votes

well people can always learn from experience.

SmokingPuffinJan 29, 20151 votes

I suggest adding a drop down box in the load screen for each champ. The box would contain NEED TO KNOW info about the champs capabilities. "Ashe : perma slow, long range stun". Keep it short. Keep new players.

Totally good idea.

AlëkJan 29, 20151 votes

I learned differently from most I think. While in queue I would go to the store and just check out champion abi ities and read lore. This is pretty much all I did in queue times from lvl 1-29. I learned a lot and it defined my playstyle.

crystalienJan 29, 20151 votes

they already have this in the champion pages..it's the summoners responsibility to know who they are up against...at least imo.

DynamiteGazelleJan 29, 20151 votes

Personally, I found the huge variety of champions absolutely exhilarating when I first started (quinn/zac mid season 3). In fact, it was a major reason that i wanted to keep playing after my first game. It was so exciting for me to see new characters every match and find out what they could do. The leveling experience is pretty adequate in my experience to help people learn the basics.

If anything, there needs to be a way to help the lvl 30 "noobs" because reaching level 30 is only the beginning of the journey really. Things like rune pages really should be explained because nobody has the resources to learn the system by experimentation. I also think there should be a buffer between reaching 30 and being able to play ranked because most newly made lvl 30s are not ready for ranked.

Of course this only applies to the western world's servers because in the korean server they expect you to know your shit from level 1 and you will get chewed out for not sticking to the meta lol.

Space BumJan 29, 20151 votes

That is something you can really just sit down and think about especially by the time you hit 30. I used to copy mobafire but my games have improved sense I stopped doing that. You just have to think about what the champ you want to play does.

Runes and masteries are easy. Do I do damage? Am I a tank? What kind of damage do I do? Am I auto attack based? What role am I going to play?