juggernaut items not being restricted to a handful of champions has caused way too many problems.

rubberduckie666·Jan 18, 2019·5 votes·3,437 views

most juggernauts dont even build titanic hydra :/

8 Comments

Critmaster GarenJan 18, 20193 votes

titanic hydra is less of a problem than steraks gage on non juggernauts.

the item was supposed to be a defensive tool against heavy teamfight aoe for champions who dont have the tools to dodge abilities like

Velkoz Kennen MissFortune and other ults if they want to participate in fights.

when Darius gets grazed by a velkoz ult, he gets slowed and he cant even walk out of it before channel is completed. there is literally nothing he can do to prevent the damage. thats why steraks gage was made for champions like him.

Fiora Irelia Jax and others all have abilities in their kits that allow them to react to the situation either by dashing out of the aoe, or by interrupting the caster from range. theyre not supposed to be able to use steraks gage as well as juggernauts. thats why the damage portion was originally a base ad increase. because juggernauts mainly scale with total ad, while these other champions scale with bonus ad. so steraks wouldnt increase their ability damage.

since the change to bonus ad, steraks gage has become a massive problem on those champions. revert the item to base ad increase and rework sheen.

MoonscourgeJan 18, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EvPHkdH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-18T00:53:28.665+0000)

titanic hydra is less of a problem than steraks gage on non juggernauts.

the item was supposed to be a defensive tool against heavy teamfight aoe for champions who dont have the tools to dodge abilities like

and other ults if they want to participate in fights.

when gets grazed by a velkoz ult, he gets slowed and he cant even walk out of it before channel is completed. there is literally nothing he can do to prevent the damage. thats why steraks gage was made for champions like him.

and others all have abilities in their kits that allow them to react to the situation either by dashing out of the aoe, or by interrupting the caster from range. theyre not supposed to be able to use steraks gage as well as juggernauts. thats why the damage portion was originally a base ad increase. because juggernauts mainly scale with total ad, while these other champions scale with bonus ad. so steraks wouldnt increase their ability damage.

since the change to bonus ad, steraks gage has become a massive problem on those champions. revert the item to base ad increase and rework sheen.

Worst example I have ever seen.

Most champions don't have a way of interrupting a Velkoz ult if he slows them on a reasonable range. Saying that Fiora and Irelia have no trouble doing it while stating that Darius has absolutely no way (probably the easiest out of them all) is just dishonest.

Juggernauts are fine. They kill you on their terms, bruisers take the fight to the enemy while Juggernauts win whenever you are coming to them or they catch you.

Critmaster GarenJan 18, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake of Avarice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EvPHkdH,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-01-18T03:59:55.685+0000)

Worst example I have ever seen.

Most champions don't have a way of interrupting a Velkoz ult if he slows them on a reasonable range. Saying that Fiora and Irelia have no trouble doing it while stating that Darius has absolutely no way (probably the easiest out of them all) is just dishonest.

Juggernauts are fine. They kill you on their terms, bruisers take the fight to the enemy while Juggernauts win whenever you are coming to them or they catch you.

fiora, irelia, jax all have mobility to dodge out of the ult.

irelias e has more range than darius hook. jax e and leap strike together can either be used to interrupt it or dodge out of it. fiora can dash out of it aswell. camille has her e etc. all these champions are given kit inbuilt tools to deal with these situations. juggernauts dont have them.

darius hook doesnt have enough range to interrupt velkoz at even half distance to him. if hed get hit at maximum range, hed take the full channel of the ult with no other option than flash. jax, fiora, camille, irelia and similar champions have these options in their kits. they dont need steraks gage to exist. juggers do.

either way, this was just one example. what is Mordekaiser supposed to do? or Garen or Nasus or Yorick ?

steraks gage was made with a specific purpose in mind for a specific sub type of fighters. the fact that mobile skirmishers are stacking the same items and become extremely burst resistant and get almost the same melee power is a problem, because it invalidates juggernauts as picks. why would you ever pick nasus, if you can pick irelia and be just as tanky, deal almost the same damage and have twice the game impact due to a more versatile kit?

the difference in tankyness/damage between juggernauts and skirmishers isnt large enough anymore which is why skirmishers are essentially better versions of them.

DUDE BROJan 18, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EvPHkdH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-18T00:53:28.665+0000) revert the item to base ad increase and rework sheen.

I think just remove AD all together and as someone else mentioned, make it based on all defensive stats:

450 HP, 15 armor, 15 magic resist. Unique: When taking x damage, Gain a shield equal to 75% of your bonus health, and increase total armor and magic resist by 30%. for x seconds.

Critmaster GarenJan 18, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=DUDE BRO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EvPHkdH,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-01-18T04:21:05.234+0000)

I think just remove AD all together and as someone else mentioned, make it based on all defensive stats:

450 HP, 15 armor, 15 magic resist. Unique: When taking x damage, Gain a shield equal to 75% of your bonus health, and increase total armor and magic resist by 30%. for x seconds.

reworking sheen would give us the option of generally tuning fighter itemization between different types of fighters.

sheen is literally the only thing that prevents us from having more base ad increasing items in the game.

MordepoolJan 18, 20193 votes

Steraks the juggernaut item is better used by Divers. Any else see the Problem.

Hexs FortuneJan 18, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Steraks the juggernaut item is better used by Divers. Any else see the Problem.

I agree, but our complaints just seem to fall on deaf ears. They deliberately altered the trinity force - steraks gage synergy towards bonus AD for the sake of divers.

haaaaaaalpJan 18, 20191 votes

The problem is that riot tried to solve the bruiser and juggernaut problem initially with items and keystones instead of fixing champion kits. Then, when specific juggernauts or bruisers started getting kits on par with other classes, they became far too strong in conjunction with juggernaut items.