Looking Back on Ornn's Changes: The Loss of Skill Expression on a Road to Overbuffing a Tank

Tychusfindlay918··3 votes·276 views

From the September hotfix:

"Bellows Breath Bellows Breath Range increased to 550 from 500. Width increased by 50. Unknown current value. Self-slow reduced to 50% from 65%. This increases how far he walks during the effect."

Result: Ornn W becomes a much more forgiving spell. It's lack of cast time for damage to start coming in, relatively short duration, and bigger area of effect just made the ability incredibly easy to land entirely. There is no impetus for Ornn to try and combo one of his many knock-ups into using his W while they're CC'd. This reduces counterplay and also reduces potential skill expression on the champion.

From patch 7.18:

"Call of the Forge God Call of the Forge God Maximum speed increased to 1200 from 1050."

Result: Ornn ultimate somewhat easier to hit. On it's own, this would have been fine, however, when paired with a future change, it leads to Ornn's ultimate being oppressively reliable for how devastating it really is.

From patch 7.20:

Author's note - This patch is most likely what really fucked Ornn as a champion the most

"Bellows Breath Bellows Breath Target's health ratio changed to 12 / 14 / 16 / 18 / 20% of target's maximum health from 15 / 17.5 / 20 / 22.5 / 25% of target's current health. Searing Charge Searing Charge Terrain collision range increased to 150 additional range from 100. Call of the Forge God Call of the Forge God REMOVED: Headbutting the giant ram having a 0.35-second cast time."

Result: In conjunction with the previous change to Ornn's ultimate, Ornn's ultimate now becomes 100% undodgeable without some form of mobility steroid or flash. Maokai's ultimate, which shares a similar feel and role as that of Ornn's, is massively outmatched as it is nowhere near guaranteed as Ornn's. Ornn doesn't even need to hit the slow portion of his ult as the instant redirect and enhanced speed of the ultimate along with it's width means certain hits in many scenarios without much timing or thought required. The searing charge range increase in isolation was a good change. Its use is perhaps the hardest of all of Ornn's abilities. The change to Bellows Breath was a gargantuan mistake. It allowed Ornn's to spam W all day long to kill or force people out of lane. His other abilities soon became irrelevant due to the sheer amount of reliable damage Ornn's W provided. Why waste time, effort, and mana to try and land an unreliable combo when you can just chunk people for up to 20% of their maximum health over and over with relatively little counterplay for most of League's non-artillery ranged roster?


Conclusion: It's unwise to consistently buff a champion's reliability at the expense of both skill expression and balance. Tanks for a long time were complained about due to their massive amounts of rather easy to land CC. Riot spent much of their time in the tank update trying to: further niches for certain tanks while also removing some of the reliability of tanks in favor for more in-the-moment impactful plays. Strangely, this philosophy was thrown out for Ornn which Riot decided to consistently buff by giving him more damage and incredible amounts of reliability. Ornn soon became what Riot tried to avoid: a brainless tank that's better than all of the other tanks.

Alternative Solutions: There is a lot of promise in taking out power from W and putting it into both Q and E, skills which both require more skill expression from the Ornn as well as have more counterplayability for the opponents he face. Unfortunately, there is no set rule for how reliable a champion should be, and every champion should have a baseline amount of reliability. However, I would like to state that I believe Ornn's baseline level of reliability is much too high. Since an ultimate ability is a heavy investment, I would be fine in leaving his ultimate as reliable as it is in exchange for his base kit becoming less reliable but just as rewarding when he lands his combos. W should go back to current HP and E and Q should be empowered. An interesting notion can be tying in brittle passive with getting a successful knockup while breaking terrain (encouraging Ornn to combo E and Q successfully rather than spam W).


Author's note: Just to make it fool-proof with some extra clarification, this isn't a comprehensive look at all of Ornn's changes. It looks at the decisions Riot made when they thought Ornn was weak and analyzes why those decisions were wrong.

Also, this is in no way shape or form to be misconstrued as a "ORNN OP" thread. Ornn is the opposite of OP because he had to be hammered so hard after all of the wrongful buffs he received.

5 Comments

Azadethe1 votes

Can't help but notice you left out all the NERFS which far surpass any of the buffs.

-Current HP was better than Max HP, because it was more reliable, and a larger amount overall. It just couldn't last tick (Interestingly enough, item 3151 has been changed to Max HP, so this changed turned into redundancy and an unneeded one).

-Nerfs to E:

Searing Charge Searing Charge Charge base damage increased to 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 from 30 / 50 / 70 / 90 / 110. Charge bonus armor ratio increased to 40% bonus armor from 30%. Charge bonus magic resistance ratio increased to 40% bonus magic resistance from 30%. Shockwave base damage increased to 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 from 50 / 90 / 130 / 170 / 210. Shockwave bonus armor ratio increased to 40% bonus armor from 30%. Shockwave bonus magic resistance ratio increased to 40% bonus magic resistance from 30%. NEW EFFECT: The shockwave damage is only applied to units not hit by the initial charge.

...... In other words, they gave Searing Charge's initial hit a buff, BUT...removed the second hit's damage from targets that weren't hit by the original, which took away almost all its damage from scaling Armor or Resist (or both).

-REMOVED: Displacing enemies he passes through. This did not apply any form of interrupt.

Major W Nerfs: -Cooldown increased to 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 seconds from 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 / 8. -Target's maximum health ratio reduced to 10 / 12 / 14 / 16 / 18% of the target's maximum health from 12 / 14 / 16 / 18 / 20%. REMOVED: Being Unstoppable during the march. (This was huge and pretty much resulted in the entire reason Ornn's gameplay is now severely limited, and it created a ton of bugs with Ornn interactions with other champs) -Cooldown increased to 17 / 15 / 13 / 11 / 9 seconds from 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 / 9. (Second cooldown nerf) Target's maximum health ratio changed to 12 / 13 / 14 / 15 / 16% of target's maximum health from 10 / 12 / 14 / 16 / 18%. (Third Reduction in Max HP damage after the current HP change)

-Brittle icon Brittle duration reduced to 3 seconds from 6. (Really killed his engages/interactions, because it removes any availability for a non point blank Ornn to actually proc his brittle, especially vs kiting/dashing champs)

Major R Nerfs:

-Brittle icon Brittle duration reduced to 3 seconds from 6. -Cooldown increased to 140 / 120 / 100 seconds from 130 / 100 / 70.

Q Nerfs: None.

Passive Nerfs:

  • NEW EFFECT: Masterwork upgrades now become available once Ornn reaches level 13.

........ all these major nerfs and you're complaining about his Ult.

You didn't even use the patch of the CURRENT HP% Max damage on Bellow's breath to try to create your biased post. You used the FIRST (12-20%) when it's now 12-16%...... which is nothing, and its cooldown was increased FIVE SECONDS at low levels.


Ornn is not OP atm..... he basically has a passive role. He basically doesn't have a champ killing kit anymore, except vs certain adcs (They are easy to control with wall knocks and Q's).

In top lane, almost all champs counter him now, and although you can passively lane versus them, and occasionally get one caught out, they out-agency him as they level. If he's anywhere else...... he just doesn't do much anymore.

I've played him since he was released: I had Mastery 7 on him within 2 days of his INITIAL release after a string of some 17 S+ performances. I can tell you right now: His initial 2 patches were his best. Everything after has been a nerf, even if the intention was to buff him.

(and now they release this 0 damage taken Irelia with an OP 1v1 kit AND a 1v5 AP kit)

I can still soundly perform with Ornn, but I basically do it by not existing for any other purpose than Masterworks.

Tychusfindlay9182 votes

{quoted}

Can't help but notice you left out all the NERFS which far surpass any of the buffs.

-Current HP was better than Max HP, because it was more reliable, and a larger amount overall. It just couldn't last tick (Interestingly enough, item 3151 has been changed to Max HP, so this changed turned into redundancy and an unneeded one).

-Nerfs to E:

Searing Charge Searing Charge Charge base damage increased to 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 from 30 / 50 / 70 / 90 / 110. Charge bonus armor ratio increased to 40% bonus armor from 30%. Charge bonus magic resistance ratio increased to 40% bonus magic resistance from 30%. Shockwave base damage increased to 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 from 50 / 90 / 130 / 170 / 210. Shockwave bonus armor ratio increased to 40% bonus armor from 30%. Shockwave bonus magic resistance ratio increased to 40% bonus magic resistance from 30%. NEW EFFECT: The shockwave damage is only applied to units not hit by the initial charge.

...... In other words, they gave Searing Charge's initial hit a buff, BUT...removed the second hit's damage from targets that weren't hit by the original, which took away almost all its damage from scaling Armor or Resist (or both).

-REMOVED: Displacing enemies he passes through. This did not apply any form of interrupt.

Major W Nerfs: -Cooldown increased to 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 seconds from 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 / 8. -Target's maximum health ratio reduced to 10 / 12 / 14 / 16 / 18% of the target's maximum health from 12 / 14 / 16 / 18 / 20%. REMOVED: Being Unstoppable during the march. (This was huge and pretty much resulted in the entire reason Ornn's gameplay is now severely limited, and it created a ton of bugs with Ornn interactions with other champs) -Cooldown increased to 17 / 15 / 13 / 11 / 9 seconds from 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 / 9. (Second cooldown nerf) Target's maximum health ratio changed to 12 / 13 / 14 / 15 / 16% of target's maximum health from 10 / 12 / 14 / 16 / 18%. (Third Reduction in Max HP damage after the current HP change)

-Brittle icon Brittle duration reduced to 3 seconds from 6. (Really killed his engages/interactions, because it removes any availability for a non point blank Ornn to actually proc his brittle, especially vs kiting/dashing champs)

Major R Nerfs:

-Brittle icon Brittle duration reduced to 3 seconds from 6. -Cooldown increased to 140 / 120 / 100 seconds from 130 / 100 / 70.

Q Nerfs: None.

Passive Nerfs:

  • NEW EFFECT: Masterwork upgrades now become available once Ornn reaches level 13.

........ all these major nerfs and you're complaining about his Ult.

You didn't even use the patch of the CURRENT HP% Max damage on Bellow's breath to try to create your biased post. You used the FIRST (12-20%) when it's now 12-16%...... which is nothing, and its cooldown was increased FIVE SECONDS at low levels.


Ornn is not OP atm..... he basically has a passive role. He basically doesn't have a champ killing kit anymore, except vs certain adcs (They are easy to control with wall knocks and Q's).

In top lane, almost all champs counter him now, and although you can passively lane versus them, and occasionally get one caught out, they out-agency him as they level. If he's anywhere else...... he just doesn't do much anymore.

I've played him since he was released: I had Mastery 7 on him within 2 days of his INITIAL release after a string of some 17 S+ performances. I can tell you right now: His initial 2 patches were his best. Everything after has been a nerf, even if the intention was to buff him.

(and now they release this 0 damage taken Irelia with an OP 1v1 kit AND a 1v5 AP kit)

I can still soundly perform with Ornn, but I basically do it by not existing for any other purpose than Masterworks.

It's quite simple, I left out all the nerfs because they have nothing to do with the thesis.

This isn't a comprehensive look at all of Ornn's changes, this is a look at all the changes that he got while on the road to becoming overpowered.

Learn to read and you wouldn't have had to waste so much time with this wall of text.

This is not even a thread complaining that Ornn is currently OP, it merely looks at how Ornn was a case of failure in terms of trying to balance a tank.

Azadethe1 votes

"On the road to becoming Overpowered?"

How can you even make that argument if he's NOT?

Also, thesis are based on hypothesis and whole information, not on some biased and selective picking.

They have failed in balancing him, but this was a case of "he was done right the first time," and it's super debateable whether he's a tank. He has less tank agency than literally every other tank. When tanking is when he gets deleted. Nothing in his kit augments his tankiness, and his barrier is easy to chew through.

Tychusfindlay9181 votes

{quoted}

"On the road to becoming Overpowered?"

How can you even make that argument if he's NOT?

Also, thesis are based on hypothesis and whole information, not on some biased and selective picking.

They have failed in balancing him, but this was a case of "he was done right the first time," and it's super debateable whether he's a tank. He has less tank agency than literally every other tank. When tanking is when he gets deleted. Nothing in his kit augments his tankiness, and his barrier is easy to chew through.

"Looking back" - from the OP title

I can make the argument if he currently isn't because we have this wonderful thing called hindsight. We can look into the past to see how his consistent buffing was carried out in a manner contrary to how Riot stated they would like to change tanks in general and how it hurt the champion's balance.

Is this really that hard for you to comprehend?

Azadethe1 votes

He never WAS a tank. His kit has NEVER lent to being one. Literally the only aspect of Ornn that has a HINT of tank, is his barrier, which is and always has been unimpressive vs other shielders. He gets shredded when champs all in on him. That doesn't happen to most tanks.

There's a reason he's generally built CRIT in the jungle; He's almost all % damage with a touch of AD. He doesn't needed tankiness; he needs HP and CDR.

And he was not BUFFED.

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