What If Summoner Spells Had a Passive Portion to Them?

Meep Man··54 votes·3,250 views

I think this would be a cool idea to make other summoner spells viable!

summoner 21 This champion gains 6 (+0.5 per level) bonus armor and magic resist if melee and 3 (+0.25 per level) armor and magic resist if ranged

{{summoner:2}} This champion's vision range is increased by 25% and can place 1 extra sight ward and vision ward

summoner 13 This champion has 30 more mana and 6 bonus mana regeneration

summoner 1 This champion has 20% slow resist and ignore their ally's unit collision

summoner 3 This champion takes 10% less damage from slowed enemies

summoner 4 This champion has 5 tenacity

{{summoner:17}} This champion gains 75% increased health regeneration and 50% increased mana regeneration when near an allied tower

summoner 6 This champion has 3% increased movement speed, increased to 5% when out of combat

summoner 7 This champion has 15 more health and 7 bonus health regeneration

summoner 14 This champion deals 5% increased danage to enemies below 35% health

{{summoner:10}} This champion's respawn timer is decreased by 20% and have 150% increased healing and mana regeneration from the fountain

summoner 11 This champion's spells and basic attacks deal 7% increased damage to monsters and they take 5% less damage from monsters

summoner 12 This champion's recall time is reduced by 2 seconds and they gain 10 armor and magic resist for 10 seconds after recalling or using Teleport

49 Comments

JustMyBassCannon11 votes

They did that once. A few summoner spells had passives. The ruling was that they gave those champs too much invisible power.

Meep Man20 votes

{quoted}

They did that once. A few summoner spells had passives. The ruling was that they gave those champs too much invisible power.

I dont like it sometimes when Riot says hidden power. A full page of Offensive masteries gives about 10% or more damage. Is that hidden power? Another thing is is it hidden power or a crutch?

Pyro10 votes

Masteries are not a problem because it's hidden power vs. hidden power. You choose 10% more damage over 10% more durability. Summoner spells are a problem because it's (hidden power + flashy effect) vs. (hidden power + flashy effect).

If Summoner Spells had passives, you'd have to balance flashy effect (active) with the mundane yet impactful bonus (passive). The Boards tend to joke about mobile assassins being the problem because #LCSBIGPLAYS, but the truth is players themselves can't properly judge a passive over active. The passive effects on champions and items have to be borderline broken in order for players to actually notice them. Remember Perseverance in the beginning on season 4? People didn't really see it working, but it set a tank toplane meta for a good few months (0/30/0 Mundo goes where he pleases).

This is why Sona and Soraka rework happened, why TF, Janna and Zilean lost their global passives, why Taric won't be buffed until he gets a rework that will remove his auras, why Runic Bulwark was removed, and why Zeke's Herald will remain an unsatisfying, seemingly shitty item.

PoisonedPeace1 votes

I like building zeke's herald when top and jungle are auto based. Decent niche item.

j j1 votes

The changes you proposed were some of the most OP changes ever. Masteries and runes are enough passive power. Summoner spells are supposed to be a burst of power used over a short duration. (combat spells, defensive spells or utility) That's it. Your argument is flawed because you are trying to compare passive masteries to summoner spells. They are not the same do not make them the same.

NinjaFifer1 votes

They used to actually be the same. Back in S2 there were masteries that gave certain summoners a passive effect. Ignite, for instance, gave you 5 AD and 5AP while it was on cooldown, as a first tier mastery.

j j1 votes

Long before that but those were due to masteries you selected. They are not one and the same. Trust me I've been around much longer than you I don't need to be reminded or told Lol.

Rockman2 votes

[deleted]

NinjaFifer1 votes

The thing was that the people who usually used those summoner's went into the corresponding tree. If nothing else, they were ALL in the first tier, (at least as of S2) so dropping 1 point was not that big of a deal.

Raptamei2 votes

{quoted}

They did that once. A few summoner spells had passives. The ruling was that they gave those champs too much invisible power.

Meanwhile half of Zed's kit.

Caharin1 votes

Meanwhile J4's passive deals alot more damage and Zed only has one passive on his abilities.

Meanwhile people cry in forums over a champion that's not OP.

NinjaFifer2 votes

He is OP, but only because the majority of his competition is currently UP thanks to the mana regen nerf. He was actually very balanced before... but definitely not in this patch.

Caharin2 votes

I can actually accept that more so than any other "argument" I've recieved when trying to deduce why Zed would be OP. Thanks mate! :D

Champion Skin1 votes

J4 passive probably doesn't deal that much more damage

J4 passive 10% Current health (capped at 400) 10/8/6 seconds cooldown (Physical damage)

Zed passive 6/8/10% of max health 10 seconds cooldown (magic damage)

Naturally without building for it champions generally have higher armor than Mr which does favor Zed passive However Jaravan does have armor shred on his Q however this will lower the targets health and possibly the damage he will do with his passive as it is based of current health

Junkο1 votes

Zed only has 1 hidden power, though that hidden power is way too much IMO and needs to be remvoed

FyreNinja1 votes

{quoted}

They did that once. A few summoner spells had passives. The ruling was that they gave those champs too much invisible power.

Ya, invisible power, kinda like the dragon stacks, and the camp smite passives..... That "invisible power" that Riot promised to eliminate.

JustMyBassCannon2 votes

None of those are invisible power. Every single one of those is an earned buff that shows up on the champion's bar, indicating that they have them.

I said invisible power, not inattentive player.

FyreNinja1 votes

{quoted}

None of those are invisible power. Every single one of those is an earned buff that shows up on the champion's bar, indicating that they have them.

I said invisible power, not inattentive player.

Summ. Spell. passives also show up when your mouse hovers over them, just saying......

JustMyBassCannon2 votes

...there are no summoner spell passives. At all. Every single summoner spell is an active ability.

Or did you mean "Some spell passives" without the excess periods?

FyreNinja3 votes

{quoted}

...there are no summoner spell passives. At all. Every single summoner spell is an active ability.

Or did you mean "Some spell passives" without the excess periods?

Im sure that if Riot made summoner spell passives, you could view the passive effect by hovering over them in tab, thus the "invisible power" wouldn't be hidden

j j1 votes

^ Fyre What are you even talking about d00d? LMAO

FyreNinja1 votes

[{quoted}](name=j j,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EXiurYP,comment-id=0003000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-23T20:29:26.366+0000)

^ Fyre What are you even talking about d00d? LMAO

I was talking with another guy who was talking about hidden power. Carry on.....

NinjaFifer1 votes

So what's the difference between those and the Summoner Passives? It's already a good practice to know what summoners are on your enemy team. This just reinforces that.

For instance, I don't play top a lot, so I didn't know for awhile that Nasus' Wither also decreases attack speed and that his AOE shreds armor. That's just not knowing the game, and the burden of knowledge is on me. Summoner spells are more common and easier to get to know for everyone, and fall into the same category of burden of knowledge.

Matezoide9 votes

Would be nice if these were when the Spell is on CD.

Flash doesnt need a passive tho.

Beast of Legends7 votes

Maybe if the spell isn't on CD you get these effects.

This way, using it would give you an instant boost, but take away your long term bonuses

exiledFromBadmen3 votes

Like Blitzcrank and Master Yi?

NinjaFifer1 votes

They used to be only when it was on CD, and that definitely felt awkward. Some Junglers would take Ignite into jungle and use it right away (back then you could ignite monsters and minions), since it gave them 5AD/5AP while on CD. There were certainly some abuse cases.

I like your idea better. If you can make them burn their flash or whatever, it gives you a much greater strategic objective to go for.

ImHerVoice7 votes

Fortification: This champion enjoys turrets, when near a turret the turret dances.

Surge:This champion roleplays godzilla, therefor we make the champion speak japanese for the duration of surge. mouth moves for 30 seconds* Its godzilla

Oh wait. Fun summoners got removed

Erockandroll4 votes

I honestly don't really like the Idea, for a couple of Reasons. The point of Summoner spell is to make Instant, niche plays that are extremely rewarding when done right. (which is why flash is allowed to be OP)

Also the passive and Active would be really hard to counter Balance. Particularly because such Passive would work better on certain champions who may or may not care for the active.

E.X. The Heal Passive would work better on a tank or tanky support. Though Heal is mostly taken by the ADC, who would find it Unnecessary after they get any amount of Life steal. While on the Opposite end. Both the Passive and Active component to Ignite would severely benefit assassins.

If anything, I would Recommend that Summoner spell become Modified by Items. Such as it was by smite and the new Jungle Items.

take for example, {{summoner:2}}, Personally I don't see a good reason to support the spell since it has been for the most part Trinketized by item 3342, But for sake of the Argument, what if this spell Modified Sight stone in some way. It might not be a go to spell but might have a niche use for some supports.

Meep Man1 votes

{quoted}

I honestly don't really like the Idea, for a couple of Reasons. The point of Summoner spell is to make Instant, niche plays that are extremely rewarding when done right. (which is why flash is allowed to be OP)

Also the passive and Active would be really hard to counter Balance. Particularly because such Passive would work better on certain champions who may or may not care for the active.

E.X. The Heal Passive would work better on a tank or tanky support. Though Heal is mostly taken by the ADC, who would find it Unnecessary after they get any amount of Life steal. While on the Opposite end. Both the Passive and Active component to Ignite would severely benefit assassins.

If anything, I would Recommend that Summoner spell become Modified by Items. Such as it was by smite and the new Jungle Items.

take for example, {{summoner:2}}, Personally I don't see a good reason to support the spell since it has been for the most part Trinketized by item 3342, But for sake of the Argument, what if this spell Modified Sight stone in some way. It might not be a go to spell but might have a niche use for some supports.

I actually like that idea of augmentation through items. Sightstone coukd have the support for Exhaust and Clairvoyance. Ghost, Flash, and Teleport already have augments in boots. Smite has a whole line of items. That leaves Heal, Clarity, Ignite, Barrier, Revive, and Cleanse.

Vesarixx2 votes

I miss that item

NinjaFifer1 votes

Fuck it! Let's just do what Smite (the other MOBA) does and make you BUY your summoners! I'm actually a huge proponent of this style, since it feels so natural, but seriously...

I'd be up for something like what you're suggesting. It should definitely be something along the lines of Banner of Command, though; make sure that it's not something that is mandatory to take. Your build path should* always be flexible, and not determined by choices you've already made going into the game.

*I know that this game already has some pretty obvious must buys for the various classes. It SHOULD be different, but whatever.

Diostukos3 votes

Wow, I really like the Clarity and Clairvoyance passives. I think Barrier's should scale per champion level, though.

Meep Man1 votes

{quoted}

Wow, I really like the Clarity and Clairvoyance passives. I think Barrier's should scale per champion level, though.

Yeah that could lead to some early game cheese with some Top Lane Assassins, namely Fiora

Ulric Greatsword1 votes

Sounds like an interesting idea, but some of these numbers are ridiculously overtuned or even outright broken. Comparing these to masteries or runes, these passives would have altogether too much impact on the game.

Rustling Bush1 votes

ghost passive sounds broken

Champion Skin2 votes

Ghost passive would be about the same as movement speed quints

NorthernDruid1 votes

Would be kinda sweet.

Teridax681 votes

Summoner spells are all about providing a small amount of fight-turning power on a high cooldown, and so are meant to be as concentrated around visible power as possible. Giving each spell a passive would mean either a) making the actives less powerful to maintain the same overall amount of power, which is bad because it would lead to less visible power, or b) adding them on top of the existing actives, which would just lead to power creep when those passive bonuses could just as easily be included as masteries.

Paradrakor1 votes

Summoner spells are supposed to be straightforward boosts. This is like over-complicating runes with double passives or something.

DynamiteGazelle1 votes

You did a great job with these! I can tell because I had a hard time choosing which ones I'd actually take! It would be nice too to see some variety in summoner spells on the rift.

bahamutkaiser1 votes

It would be a good way to embellish some spells, but many of them don't need it, and honestly, it would be nice if they could reduce complexity...

Asdeft1 votes

This whole concept is pretty poor and is just up to abuse. It won't fix some being weak or strong, just add new dominant spells or it won't change anything. Riot just needs to rework some summoner spells whenever they can get around to it. The actual bonuses you tagged with each spell are pretty fitting, but the passives would need to scale. Obviously your numbers are placeholders to get the idea across, but anything that is flat like hp, mana, armor, mr etc should scale throughout the game to give you a good bonus even at level 18.

j j1 votes

Because they don't need them. Clarity should just be removed honestly unless they give it another bonus just as heal has it's bonus.

agbudar1 votes

yea and in the meantime over 4 years of play i've used clarity 4 times and clairvoyance once and it was a terrible experience.

they really need more and i especially like the clairvoyance part.

all this will do is increase the burden of knowledge by a notch but this should be clearly explained when picking them or mousing over the spells ingame.

Vesarixx1 votes

summoner 11 This champion Gains additional XP and gold from monster kills

fixed

cFlame1 votes

No. Passives are problematic in this game, considering that they cant be countered or if they can be its very difficult for some champions. Passives honestly don't sound good for this game, where it should be about skill and teamwork. Some specific champions would become problematic with such new changes and other champions would get dusty with these changes.

NinjaFifer1 votes

I actually really like this idea. There's already a ton of passive power coming from runes and masteries, so I'd like to see some more strategic changes made to the game that you can walk into lane with.

The numbers are pretty wack, though. Clarity and Heal don't even use the %BaseRegen that is the standard now. Balancing and standardization would need to be done, but I like the idea as is.

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