Boards›Gameplay

we need to address the real issues with support

Big Lincoln··6 votes·1,064 views

no, IP boosts, RP boosts, XP, LP gains whatever, is not going to make support a desirable role. Artificial interest will only make more problems.

Stop dancing around the issues; if you want supports to be played more, then you need to address the role itself. They're under-leveled, under-item'd, and quite frankly I think their gameplay patterns are terrible. They're not fun to play but a lot of them have been god damn infuriating to play against at their prime. Utility supports are reliant on AP, a stat they don't get enough gold to buy and can't get enough of unless they manage to stack a Mejai's or save up for items beyond their budget. Tank supports are only tanky if their pockets are lined with assist gold. Some mages have such broken base damage that a handful of them can succeed without a gold income, and now they're starting to populate the bottom lane.

Direct changes need to be made. Supports need to change to feel better to play and more fair to play against; utility supports should not require AP, or at least not as extremely as they do right now; mage supports should not have the raw numbers they do. Outside of the tanks, supports need more items that DON'T give them CDR. Locket and Redemption really shouldn't be as absolutely necessary as they are. XP distribution needs to change, and not just for supports' sake; we could take this chance to allow melee fighters and other carries to lane bot without relying on a bullshit snowball first-tower meta, and solve support leveling in the same swoop.

what do you guys think

20 Comments

TricolorStar4 votes

There are many problems with the support role.

  1. (This is probably the biggest one) It is an incredibly thankless task. Supports are like beleaguered housewives who are working four jobs to support their shitty children and one slip-up means all of them die.

  2. Support champions are boring. Most supports are the most uninteractive characters in the game. Although the recent support reworks and releases have been much more fun and impactful, the traditional support is thought of as "heal this, ward that:, "tank this, cc them", etc. If you're lucky you'll secure a kill or win a teamfight.

  3. Support itemization is F'd up the A. Bruisers like Fiora, Camille, and Irelia all share one item: Trinity Force. Mages all share Morellonomicon, etc. Supports? Good luck finding a unified core to work from. All supports have become jacks of all trades, masters of none. You can build literally anything on anybody and it could work because nobody knows what the hell is going on anymore.

  4. Do you want to know why people don't like to autofill into supp? Because you die. A lot. And you can do nothing about it. That's why mages like Vel'Koz and Zyra have become so popular. They help their team and can hold their own if pressed.

Très Pauvre3 votes

{quoted}

There are many problems with the support role.

  1. (This is probably the biggest one) It is an incredibly thankless task. Supports are like beleaguered housewives who are working four jobs to support their shitty children and one slip-up means all of them die.

  2. Support champions are boring. Most supports are the most uninteractive characters in the game. Although the recent support reworks and releases have been much more fun and impactful, the traditional support is thought of as "heal this, ward that:, "tank this, cc them", etc. If you're lucky you'll secure a kill or win a teamfight.

  3. Support itemization is F'd up the A. Bruisers like Fiora, Camille, and Irelia all share one item: Trinity Force. Mages all share Morellonomicon, etc. Supports? Good luck finding a unified core to work from. All supports have become jacks of all trades, masters of none. You can build literally anything on anybody and it could work because nobody knows what the hell is going on anymore.

  4. Do you want to know why people don't like to autofill into supp? Because you die. A lot. And you can do nothing about it. That's why mages like Vel'Koz and Zyra have become so popular. They help their team and can hold their own if pressed.

uh... support itemization literally has the opposite problem... locket, redemption and sightstone are so mandatory plus a gold income item that your first 3 of maybe 4 completed items is mapped out for you. If those items were scaled back in effectiveness more itemization could be seen, therefore more choices, and therefore more fun. Oh forgot to mention boots so how many item slots are you then left too play with? Not very many and with how stompy games are right now good luck enjoying choosing that item you'll never get too build.

The strength of these items and extreme xp shortages are the major issues with support fixing those may not bring everyone flocking to the role but it would be a lot more enjoyable to play.

TWGdabeast2 votes

{quoted}

There are many problems with the support role.

  1. (This is probably the biggest one) It is an incredibly thankless task. Supports are like beleaguered housewives who are working four jobs to support their shitty children and one slip-up means all of them die.

  2. Support champions are boring. Most supports are the most uninteractive characters in the game. Although the recent support reworks and releases have been much more fun and impactful, the traditional support is thought of as "heal this, ward that:, "tank this, cc them", etc. If you're lucky you'll secure a kill or win a teamfight.

  3. Support itemization is F'd up the A. Bruisers like Fiora, Camille, and Irelia all share one item: Trinity Force. Mages all share Morellonomicon, etc. Supports? Good luck finding a unified core to work from. All supports have become jacks of all trades, masters of none. You can build literally anything on anybody and it could work because nobody knows what the hell is going on anymore.

  4. Do you want to know why people don't like to autofill into supp? Because you die. A lot. And you can do nothing about it. That's why mages like Vel'Koz and Zyra have become so popular. They help their team and can hold their own if pressed.

as someone who has mained supportfor the past few seasons since i starteed league, back in season 3, IT IS A THANKLESS TASK. thank you for seeing that. when not playing with friends, usually all of my games rely on the skills of the carries.

It has become boring, i feel as i'm not the one trying to cs, supports can watch the game as a whole, watch their team win solo trades early or lose them, then saying "well our top is the only one fed so i guess my best shot is to cover their ass and hope they can carry us."

Itemization is garbage. nothing is consistent. buy sightstone, then build against the enemy, not for yourself.

Thresh was my go to support for so long. I feel that his passive soul scaling was a great idea to add to his lantern and flay, but could have been the key to a support who, if he keeps getting souls, thats what would make him strong in a game, not having to cover the adc for their weaknesses and losing out on gold.

some games end and you and the enemy support will be so underleveled it is hilarious. Riven got fed? while she makes it to lvl 18 im still siting here at lvl 14 or 13 sometimes.

If a jungler ganks early, how likely is he to get a kill or 2? suddenly your role as support goes from maybe i can hurt the laners and help trade to, oh shit don't die. unless your a full on mage "supporting" you have no chance of punishing, let alone killing, an enemy jungler who knows what they are doing. your role in the game becomes team cheer leader or ff@20 because you suddenly have next to no ipact inthe game without dying in the process.

The support role does suck currently, it will almost certainly suck unless something is overtuned, or your a brand nuking the enemy botlane while ez is farming up his tear. i think that is how someone gets bored and decides to bring someone like ziggs bot, he is a fun champ who does a great deal of dmg via poke, suddnely he is the apc and now adc's are being replaced. this is hilarious to watch btw as supprts still suck. plz let adc's become cs farm bots as a role. have the mage carries replace the suppors entirely. that will spice up this meta.

wow what a rant...

Ahristocats3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EI3NdrE,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-20T17:40:19.247+0000)

what do you guys think

i enjoy this situation because it's rare that i get support in high elo, most of the time i get my secondary role which is top lane.

Support is by far one of the most played role in high elo, simply because of Karma Zyra Malzahar Brand Velkoz that are overpowered as fuck -lane bully -utility -AOE damage in teamfight

yeah, tell me more about fixing supports

the support role is fine what isn't fine is the balance of the role

Big Lincoln4 votes

i even said mage supports needed to be tuned down lol. not sure if it's just them that are the problem but you barely even see tank supports b/c all 5 of those just counter them so hard.

the support role is fine what isn't fine is the balance of the role

so the support role isn't fine, if it's dominated by champions that aren't even traditional supports in higher elo

like the only actual support i even see often these days is Janna. soraka lulu, even nami is a rarity now

Ahristocats1 votes

Nop, janna and thresh are the only one nami is rare soraka disappeared

either you nerf the mages or you buff supports

Unironic SJW1 votes

we had this problem with Annie 2 years ago, it was fixed by:

Nerfing her bases and buffing her scalings Making her utility level dependent (stun gains duration at level breakpoints).

Annie is still viable at support, but she's no longer oppressive. You can do the same thing for Brand, Malz, Velkoz and Zyra.

sheldonbunny2 votes

What do I think? For starters, that i'm tired of people telling me how not fun a role is that I have a genuine blast playing. And while it's not the majority, there is a faithful number that agree with me.

The rest of the theory crafting bores me at this point since nothing new is getting said and all ideas have been brought up. To be frank, I don't care if supporting is ever popular. It will always draw in a specific crowd, just like every other role. Some of us just simply like working in the background to get our team to victory.

The real issue is the playerbase's need for glory, and that's an inherent flaw of humanity. Good luck finding a fix to that.

Aptest2 votes

As a support main, my main gripe with the champion pool is that most support champions have a very straight forward kit. There really are not many high mobility, high outplay potential, consistently mechanically demanding characters in the support roster.

I have a very specific view on what support role is currently lacking. As I've expressed it at great length this past week in other threads I refer you to go look for my opinion there. The TL;DR is that the XP and items issue is a red herring that distracts from the real problems, and that solving the real issues will result in solo lanes and junglers losing out on fun.

For this thread, I would like to ask you a question. You, specifically, do not play support on this account. Why? Why do you prefer your lane over support? What are the things you enjoy most about your role? What are the things that, if you could do them as a support, would make you play support? Is there a power fantasy that you think is lacking in the support role? What kind of power fantasies should exist in the support role? Which of those are denied now? What kind of power fantasy, even if it is in your mind not suited for the support role, if it exists for supports would make people who are currently playing mid, jungle and top desire the role?

Big Lincoln1 votes

You, specifically, do not play support on this account. Why?

i do play support though, i have 260k on bard and mastery 7 for him and taric, and i have janna as a pocket pick.

i'm not playing support in season 7 if i can help it, because i would rather not play a role where im guaranteed to build the same 4-5 items each game. not to mention mage supports are too strong for both of my mains to handle in lane; no thanks.

What kind of power fantasies should exist in the support role?

strong debuffs, less hard CC, less shield/heal shit. just a good, old fashioned buff support.

Ahristocats1 votes

you asked me if you should download dota2 you should definitly do it to try their support and then having ideas on how to improve league's supports

sheldonbunny2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4EI3NdrE,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-01-20T18:41:33.859+0000)

i do play support though, i have 260k on bard and mastery 7 for him and taric, and i have janna as a pocket pick.

Still would consider you more a Bard main than a support main. I was the same way until I started forcing myself to play and understand most of the meta and a fair bit of the off meta picks. Diversity is a wonderful thing.

Aptest1 votes

what kind of items would you like to see? what kinds of debuffs? if there is a new support champion, what would be your ideal set of abilities for that champion?

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Honestly, I'm not even sure it would matter.

Many people just don't like playing supportive roles in video games, preferring to be the damage-oriented "carry".

They can try to improve the support role, but many people are just predisposed against supporting in general.

Big Lincoln2 votes

most supports in league are fairly low-interaction or low counterplay

it's not really a surprise if they're unpopular overall given how few of them can make big plays beyond a clutch heal or shield, as opposed to the aoe mage supports landing a 5 man ult and shredding people by themselves.

Très Pauvre1 votes

I don't like increasing gold income i think the current pool has plenty of gold to buy items its just items like sightstone, locket and redemption are so absolutely mandatory that it gates you from real choices.

Xp gain is a serious issue if that problem is solved then i think it'll be in an ok spot.

chipndip11 votes

My issue is that people think support is unpopulated because you aren't a carry when, in actuality, it's unpopulated because support play patterns and itemization is more boring than watching paint dry in most instances. If someone tries to point this out? "No, support is FINE. This role is so fun!" Few days later? "Why is no one picking support I'm tired of being auto-filled!!!!!". It's crazy how wild this community is in its own naivety sometimes.

Ralanr1 votes

I agree with not having utility scale with AP. Though I think that would remove most scaling power from supports.

Granted I don't actually know.

sobi9991 votes

Nothing can be fixed up to perfection, the post is implying to improve the role of supports through means of XP and itemization. Atleast make supports feel like they are doing something and are part of the team.

Sire Hippington1 votes

I disagree with supports not beeing fun to play or haveing terrible gameplay patterns. I like playing most support champs, just not the position. The main issues are gold/xp gain and inventory. You have one itemslot for sightstone, one for controll wards, and most likely redemtion and locket and sometimes the active gp/10, so even if you had the gold, you have not much space to use it. And frankly, the one thing that used to be supports big strength isn't that great anymore: warding. Back in the daysm supports might have been ward bots, but they had the tools to wage the visionwar all on their own for the whole team, aslong as the team protects the support from getting picked off in the procces. Now i hardly feel like i can sustain even a baseline of vision, and even for that i have to frequently back to refill sightstone.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Big Lincoln

these "upvote if you agree" threads are cancer
Memes & Games44 comments
268
votes
Look at all this GHOSTINESS
Story, Art, & Sound90 comments
241
votes
viktor changes are awful
Gameplay92 comments
185
votes
Generalists are bad and we want to rework tanks to be not that
Gameplay130 comments
170
votes
Have to say I'm pleasantly surprised by Warwick
Gameplay261 comments
159
votes
Why is Swain getting nerfed
Gameplay229 comments
157
votes