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Idea for sighstone/support items. Thoughts?

Shahamut··1 votes·290 views

get rid of base support items. Make Sightstone the base item:

Sightstone 500g

Hp: +100 Gold: +2 Gold per 10 seconds.

Active: Place a sightward. This item holds 2 charges and refills when you back to base.

Now add items for it to build into that based on your build path. Kind of like how EVERY jungler has to have smite and jungle item to succeed. Every support should have a sight stone.

Tankstone (place holder name... Make it GREEN!)

Build Path: Sightstone (500g) + Cloth Armor>>>Chain Vest (800g) + 500g (1800 total)

HP: +400 Armor: +40 Gold: +3 Gold per 10 seconds. Quest (Execution): Execute minions below X health and share gold with nearest ally. Can hold 3 charges. Quest Reward: Gain a Shield that regenerates while out of combat. Executing minions reduces this cooldown.

Active: Place a sightward. This item holds up to 4 charges and refills when you back to base. You may hold down the active button and consume 2 charges to instead place a control ward.

Mage Stone (place holder name... Make it BLUE!)

Build Path: Sightstone (500g) + Amp Tome >>>Aether Whisp (850g) +450g (1800 total)

HP: +150 AP: +40 Movespeed: +6% Gold: +3 per 10 seconds. Quest (Claim): Damaging an enemy champion grants you X Gold. Only procs 1 time for dots. holds up to 3 charges. Put charge up on cooldown for 6 seconds for each minion you kill. Quest Reward: No longer put Claim on cooldown for killing minions. Every so often, your next damaging attack against an enemy champion will reveal them and slow them by 30% for 1.5 seconds.

Active: Place a sightward. This item holds up to 4 charges and refills when you back to base. You may hold down the active button and consume 2 charges to instead place a control ward.

Ruby Sightstone (Make it re... yeah...)

Build Path: Sightstone (500g) + Ruby Crystal/Rejuv Bead>>>Crystalline Bracer (650g) + fairy charm x2>>>Forbidden Idol (800g) + 50g (2000 total)

HP: +500 HP Regen: +100% Mana Regen: +75% Cooldown Reduction: +10% Gold: +2 per 10 seconds. Passive: +10% increased Shielding and Healing power. Quest (Healer): Each time you Heal an allied champion, or block damage to an allied champion with a shield, gain X gold. Can hold up to 3 charges, similar to claim, goes on cooldown for 6 seconds (stacking) if you kill enemy minions. Quest Reward: No longer goes on cooldown for killing enemy champions. Gain an elixir that grants you one skill point.

Active: Place a sightward. This item holds up to 4 charges and refills when you back to base. You may hold down the active button and consume 2 charges to instead place a control ward.

Just ideas :P

6 Comments

archerno12 votes

Ridiculous...

500g for starting item? No potions for supports. Gold generation? 2 per 10 sec? Thats 120g per 10 min. How is support supposed to upgrade to next item? What sustain will support have? Completely gut support role and for what?

Shahamut1 votes

blarh, blarh, numbers, blarh. :P

Just trying to get feedback on the concept not the theoretical gold costs :P

On a more serious note, yeah, the starting cost would be too high obviously. Easily adjusted.

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

blarh, blarh, numbers, blarh. :P

Just trying to get feedback on the concept not the theoretical gold costs :P

On a more serious note, yeah, the starting cost would be too high obviously. Easily adjusted.

Well, its not easily ajusted. If it was less then laners would start with it. Supports would have no reason to start with that. Concept is awful and pointless. Sightstone should be optional item.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

So, Riot wants vision to be streamlined... yet they make items like the jungler items, which is the opposite of streamlined IMO.

Regardless, that isn't the main problem I have with your changes to SS. (Also, the idea of having a SS for different classes of Support isn't a new idea, even if your iteration of it is.)

No, the problem is SightStone. The way SightStone grants vision is too good and at the same time, very boring. Every ward construct follows the same model of a circular area of vision - only the radius and duration of each differing.

Try to follow me on this:

The way wards grant vision is detrimental to the vision game, because players don't have access to how wards grant information. If I'm roaming and I pass over a ward, I have no idea I've done so beyond reading the enemy's movements (assuming they're even visible). This means it's very difficult to play stealthily, as to play stealthily I need information, which wards don't provide inherently.

Even if I see you place a ward, once it turns invisible I can't interact with it unless I have a specific counter-item. This makes it very difficult for players to tune into the vision game - wards grant sight but 2 of the 4 ward constructs are invisible by default, and the other 2 can become invisible by being placed in brush, and none of them telegraph their presence to me besides the Control Ward, and only then if I have put a ward into it's range for it to disable.

Wards granting vision in the way that they do is not very appreciable, as none of their forms of vision are really unique. They all light up the map in the same way.

The implication:

If different ward constructs telegraphed their presence, they could be played around without needing a specific counter-item. This is actual stealth gameplay. If wards had different fields of sight, maybe a cone here, a literal line-of-sight there, then wards could potentially 'miss' enemy champions. If wards can 'miss' enemy champions, they can afford to be more powerful in the way their vision is expressed - larger AoEs, longer durations, effects like TS and other forms of invis detection. If wards can be played around, if they can 'miss', if they are fallible, then they can afford to be FREE. And at the same time, vision becomes easier to appreciate, as players of all skill levels (but especially lower skill levels) become aware of how wards operate, how they cover space, how they control an area and in what ways they're doing all of those things. It also means that ganking becomes very skill intensive, as players have to navigate the enemy's ward defenses, dodging and weaving their way thru the various vision cones and skirting lines of sight - whereas now it's: '1) approach for a gank --> are they running away? OK, it's warded, I'll come back later / use Sweeper or Scryer Bloom or Control Ward and then come back later. 2) approach for a gank --> OK, they don't know I'm here, GOGOGOGO, successful gank resulting in Summoner Spell uses or their deaths.'

Does that make sense?

Shahamut1 votes

What you are saying absolutely does make sense. If all wards were like control wards (Visible, 5 hits, regenerates if not destroyed) and the only way to hide them was in bushes, it would allow for some very different and interesting ward types.

Wards that grant different affects or areas of vision would be cool. But I personally don't think low elo players would buy them :P Replacing the trinket slot with a "ward" spot would be one way to do it I suppose, but if you also make them all free, high elo play gets tedious because there are tons of wards on the map unless you limited how many wards a single player could place. In that case, it could be tedious for the other reason: clearing wards becomes pretty simple.

Different fun ward ideas:

Green: Green wards cast vision in a semi-large cone that oscillates.

Blue: Pings repeatedly when an enemy champion is nearby, small circular radius of vision, detection area slightly larger. Will not reveal invisible units, but will ping.

Red: Small vision radius, similar to blue, but in a slightly larger area will deal damage to nearby wards at a rate of 1 every 2.5 seconds. Eventually disabling them (destroying them).

What are your thoughts on how to actually implement your ideas? And what are the consequences (good or bad) of doing so?

DrugsForRobots1 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/a0coEvWf-ward-variety-sight-options-the-information-war

Those are most of my ideas. I might would do a few things differently now, but that's the gist of it. The point isn't these ideas specifically, but that Riot has so many creative people that they could come up with some amazing ideas to make the vision game really fun and interesting.

I like the idea of an oscillating cone of vision, I hadn't thought of that. Remember though that all / each ward needs to have a way to communicate its presence to the enemy, so they have info to play around it. In the case of your Blue pinging ward, for example, enemies should be able to hear the ping, but not see it. That way they know their position is compromised, but they still know they're relatively safe - they know that the enemy doesn't have vision of them, nor does the enemy know their precise location, only general whereabouts.

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