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State of LeBlanc - A Need for Change

Troy242621··4 votes·1,063 views

Introduction Facts will be used in this post, not opinions or anecdotal experiences with the champion. A TL;DR and Sources section will be at the bottom. I am not arguing she is overpowered or underpowered but rather that her DESIGN is abysmal and needs actual changes. I intend only to facilitate the need for change. Without further ado, I have three primary arguments. The first is the scarcity of counterplay, the second is unequal effort and the third is a violation of standard power curves.

Insufficient Counterplay The average human reaction time is approximately 0.2 second. After this, you must decide which skill/item to use, aim/target LeBlanc and activate it before she teleports back out. Keep in mind her combo can take place in .4 second. This is all assuming that you ANTICIPATE LeBlanc coming. If you do not, your reaction times will suffer considerably. This means that, potentially, it is not humanly possible to react in some instances. Lastly, while she may have lane counters, Riot has taken the stance that counterpicks alone aren't sufficient, as bans exist, as do counter-counter picks and lane swaps. On top of this, what if your team isn't mid lane? She makes your entire game miserable even if you didn't lane against her. This is an oppressive feeling that Riot would likely deem toxic.

Unequal Effort This leads to my second argument. LeBlanc's effort compared to the effort that has to be exerted to stop her is completely unequal. Your reactions have to be nearly perfect on top of seeing her coming to reasonably react to her combos. LeBlanc on the other hand has ridiculously low cooldowns, several panic buttons and CC. She has obscene burst and can completely negate your chance to react to her. In fact, her kit revolves around it (As is reflected in the fact that she used to have a silence as well). All LeBlanc has to do is her same combo every single time, which isn't particularly hard to consistently pull off.

Power Curve and Design Finally, her power curve. Everyone knows she has disgustingly strong power early game, she is infamous for this. Like most mages, she is also extremely potent mid game. Frustratingly enough, she scales well with her snowballing lead should she acquire one, which is quite unlike most early game stomp champions. This is another reason she is so frustrating to play against. Even if you stack magic resistance (Which has poor itemization), MPENN has fantastic itemization. If she doesn't 100:0 you, she can simply teleport out, wait her ~40 second cooldowns out and all-in again. This is, again, not a result of pure numbers but champion design. She can just ignore your input and just do what LeBlanc does, successful or no, and get out Scott free too frequently. Darius was nerfed for having his entire kit back up to re-bully you out of lane every time he killed you. LeBlanc has better scaling than Darius, better mobility, less counterplay but gets a free pass? That is highly inconsistent in philosophy.

Conclusion All in all, whether she's overpowered or not, it's quite irrelevant. Her design is simply horrendous. Poor counterplay, poor power curve, poor kit design, horrible design philosophies and band-aid fixes were all rolled into one to produce such an abomination of champion creation, and it most certainly meets the standards for needing changes. LeBlanc's current state is highly unsatisfactory.

TL;DR/Summary LeBlanc's kit innately denies counterplay and defies traditional templates for an early game champion and needs changes regardless of current power level due to an oppressive nature that Riot has already taken a stance against.

Sources http://biae.clemson.edu/bpc/bp/lab/110/reaction.htm http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime

14 Comments

Troy2426212 votes

Please remember I am not arguing she is overpowered, merely that her design is horrendous. It always has been. It's the context of the game that has changed her overall effectiveness. That does not excuse her design in any way, however.

King Odin1 votes

Insufficient Counterplay The average human reaction time is approximately 0.2 second. After this, you must decide which skill/item to use, aim/target LeBlanc and activate it before she teleports back out. Keep in mind her combo can take place in .4 second. This is all assuming that you ANTICIPATE LeBlanc coming. If you do not, your reaction times will suffer considerably. This means that, potentially, it is not humanly possible to react in some instances. Lastly, while she may have lane counters, Riot has taken the stance that counterpicks alone aren't sufficient, as bans exist, as do counter-counter picks and lane swaps. On top of this, what if your team isn't mid lane? She makes your entire game miserable even if you didn't lane against her. This is an oppressive feeling that Riot would likely deem toxic.

Well firstly she has to actually hop onto her target to deal her damage as opposed to Xerath, Annie, Lux, and Orianna. There is no reason to complain about counter play when all the champions I listed can acually kill you from a distance and long before you get in range. Just because she has a teleport doesn't mean she can't be counterplayed.

You're not supposed to react to her blink you're supposed to react to her Cooldowns. It's like saying how do you counterplay when Lux lands her snare and E-> Ult combos and kills you just becuase of one snare?

Troy2426212 votes

I have to disagree. Lux and Orianna are telegraphed, and Annie is binary and is a one-trick pony. Stay out of range and she can't do much to you. LeBlanc's combo times are quicker than human reaction times in some situations.

Also, LeBlanc IS ranged, and can teleport back out insanely quickly. Is it impossible? Of course not. Is it unreasonable and completely unequal in effort? Absolutely. You need to remember the context, it's not a simple equation.

Irelia Bot1 votes

{quoted}

I have to disagree. Lux and Orianna are telegraphed, and Annie is binary and is a one-trick pony. Stay out of range and she can't do much to you. LeBlanc's combo times are quicker than human reaction times in some situations.

Also, LeBlanc IS ranged, and can teleport back out insanely quickly. Is it impossible? Of course not. Is it unreasonable and completely unequal in effort? Absolutely. You need to remember the context, it's not a simple equation.

You were playing Gragas and didn't go for a more tanky item until it was later on. You were jsut another squishy for her to kill and a single negarton and a health crystal does not stop leblanc's burst when already ahead. Your vel'koz likely didn't know how to play agaisnt a leblanc or perhaps the enemy hec actually ganked an immobile mage a few times and got leblanc Rolling.

9/2/3 is not even that crazy of a score for a leblanc but you are coming on here and complaining about it so I am arguing with your point since it seems like a bunch of hot air.

Troy2426211 votes

I never used anecdotal arguments for the same reason you shouldn't. The sample size is tremendously small. So many more variables exist than just LeBlanc that it means virtually nothing.

I didn't do well that game, nor did any lane. It's hard to farm gold when you're busy putting out fires. See the above statement, and once again refer to the fact that I am NOT arguing she is overpowered.

Goosetard2 votes

I think some people are oversimplifying his argument...

The crux of it isn't that there is zero counterplay, it's that the counterplay is extremely difficult, and the reward for successful counterplay typically varies from "you get to not evaporate" to "you sorta broke even that trade." Contrast this to Leblanc, who, except in some very specific matchups, risks fairly little for reward which ranges from "you evaporated the enemy/they have to leave lane or die to your next rotation" to "you broke even that trade."

As for all the champions you listed, the rely on keeping an enemy within their optimal engagement range and pay for failing to do so because of their glaring lack of mobility. If an enemy can force an engagement at a different distance they can typically succeed. This is not the case with Leblanc.

Troy2426211 votes

This precisely and concisely sums up what I'm trying to get across. Nicely put.

Irelia Bot1 votes

So what you are saying is that you were out of position, had no map control through wards to keep track of enemies general locations, and got blown up by a burst assassin who if she could not kill a target in under 2 seconds would be killed herself by 3 auto attacks from an ADC?

Yeah that is part of the problem ADC can kill assassins almost as fast as assassins can kill them.

Troy2426212 votes

Baseless assumptions. I never play ADC, and usually play tanks. I don't get bursted down by LeBlanc unless she is obscenely fed. Vision or no, she can do this in the middle of lane against her laning opponent, and I NEVER play mid lane, either. That's assumption number two.

If your intended implication is that ADCs are overpowered, I'm not here to debate that. Even if they were, it doesn't excuse broken designs like LeBlanc to fight it, or you run into power creep.

Not going to argue I'm never out of position. I'd like to point out, however, that even Zed in all his teleporting glory still has risk to going in. You can react him him. Rengar as well. I hardly think you can hide behind the "But she's an assassin," excuse when no other assassin combines CC, obscene mobility, low cooldowns, one of the fastest combo times, extreme safety and massive burst into one kit.

I usually do fight for vision control, and I usually jungle. She does this in the middle of lane >_>,...

HamburgerJunior2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=47ap2PYR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-03-10T18:45:17.972+0000)

So what you are saying is that you were out of position, had no map control through wards to keep track of enemies general locations, and got blown up by a burst assassin who if she could not kill a target in under 2 seconds would be killed herself by 3 auto attacks from an ADC?

Yeah that is part of the problem ADC can kill assassins almost as fast as assassins can kill them.

Gratz, you didn't prove a point that nobody was trying to make.

HamburgerJunior1 votes

{quoted}

Introduction Facts will be used in this post, not opinions or anecdotal experiences with the champion. A TL;DR and Sources section will be at the bottom. I am not arguing she is overpowered or underpowered but rather that her DESIGN is abysmal and needs actual changes. I intend only to facilitate the need for change. Without further ado, I have three primary arguments. The first is the scarcity of counterplay, the second is unequal effort and the third is a violation of standard power curves.

Insufficient Counterplay The average human reaction time is approximately 0.2 second. After this, you must decide which skill/item to use, aim/target LeBlanc and activate it before she teleports back out. Keep in mind her combo can take place in .4 second. This is all assuming that you ANTICIPATE LeBlanc coming. If you do not, your reaction times will suffer considerably. This means that, potentially, it is not humanly possible to react in some instances. Lastly, while she may have lane counters, Riot has taken the stance that counterpicks alone aren't sufficient, as bans exist, as do counter-counter picks and lane swaps. On top of this, what if your team isn't mid lane? She makes your entire game miserable even if you didn't lane against her. This is an oppressive feeling that Riot would likely deem toxic.

Unequal Effort This leads to my second argument. LeBlanc's effort compared to the effort that has to be exerted to stop her is completely unequal. Your reactions have to be nearly perfect on top of seeing her coming to reasonably react to her combos. LeBlanc on the other hand has ridiculously low cooldowns, several panic buttons and CC. She has obscene burst and can completely negate your chance to react to her. In fact, her kit revolves around it (As is reflected in the fact that she used to have a silence as well). All LeBlanc has to do is her same combo every single time, which isn't particularly hard to consistently pull off.

Power Curve and Design Finally, her power curve. Everyone knows she has disgustingly strong power early game, she is infamous for this. Like most mages, she is also extremely potent mid game. Frustratingly enough, she scales well with her snowballing lead should she acquire one, which is quite unlike most early game stomp champions. This is another reason she is so frustrating to play against. Even if you stack magic resistance (Which has poor itemization), MPENN has fantastic itemization. If she doesn't 100:0 you, she can simply teleport out, wait her ~40 second cooldowns out and all-in again. This is, again, not a result of pure numbers but champion design. She can just ignore your input and just do what LeBlanc does, successful or no, and get out Scott free too frequently. Darius was nerfed for having his entire kit back up to re-bully you out of lane every time he killed you. LeBlanc has better scaling than Darius, better mobility, less counterplay but gets a free pass? That is highly inconsistent in philosophy.

Conclusion All in all, whether she's overpowered or not, it's quite irrelevant. Her design is simply horrendous. Poor counterplay, poor power curve, poor kit design, horrible design philosophies and band-aid fixes were all rolled into one to produce such an abomination of champion creation, and it most certainly meets the standards for needing changes. LeBlanc's current state is highly unsatisfactory.

TL;DR/Summary LeBlanc's kit innately denies counterplay and defies traditional templates for an early game champion and needs changes regardless of current power level due to an oppressive nature that Riot has already taken a stance against.

Sources http://biae.clemson.edu/bpc/bp/lab/110/reaction.htm http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime

I agree with most of the points you make here other than the "insufficient counterplay" panel. There are many, many ways to deal with leblanc. Namely, any response to her dash. I feel like they could fix leblanc just by making her Q a skillshot. That way if she misses that you'll take far less damage from her combo and she'd be exposing herself to danger by dashing in regardless. Cause you know, leblancs damage secretly comes from Q.

Not There Senpai1 votes

Riot has made statements on Anti-Fun, and I'll make a point on how LeBlanc is anti-fun.

With Anti-Fun being a mechanic that is fun to use but horrible to play against, the mechanic is anti-fun if playing against it is far worse (less fun/toxic inducing) than playing it.

LeBlanc is very anti-fun, and any time you see Leblanc on the other team (since you can ban her in draft) in Teambuilder or whatever else, it's always "Oh boy, another LeBlanc." She doesn't need vision, and the opposing team's jungler ganks her, she can to QRW either him or the other laner and get 1 guaranteed kill and escape. I completely agree with you, that sort of champion design has no place in League of Legends.

Irelia Bot1 votes

You are still acting like it was because leblanc is OP and not because their team played better then yours.

Zahz1 votes

arent all ap burst mages supposed to try and burst you down before you can react? She has counter play in the fact that she is garbage in a team fight so if you stay together and use proper positioning she can do literally nothing to u

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