Thresh had the highest pick rate AND win rate at worlds this year

Cloud273·Nov 26, 2015·27 votes·2,224 views

Among supports. Can we nerf him now please?

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/esports/V0WsriPU-champs-seen-at-worlds-a-list

44 Comments

IronwallJacksonNov 26, 20155 votes

You're also forgetting champion ban rates. The top 3 or four champions had 90% pick/bans or higher, with the number one, Gangplank, coming in at an astounding 100%.

It's not all pick/win.

Aeolian MelodiesNov 26, 20157 votes

{quoted}

You're also forgetting champion ban rates. The top 3 or four champions had 90% pick/bans or higher, with the number one, Gangplank, coming in at an astounding 100%.

It's not all pick/win.

The top 4 banned champs were recently reworked champions who were literally breaking the game and imo should've been disabled because they defined all draft phases in Worlds. Had they not been around you could use the ban rate as a legit stat of who was considered strongest.

KONO RUBICK DANov 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You're also forgetting champion ban rates. The top 3 or four champions had 90% pick/bans or higher, with the number one, Gangplank, coming in at an astounding 100%.

It's not all pick/win.

he also forgot shen's iwn rate

TobstersNov 26, 20153 votes

Got tired of thresh? New poppy's W can stop thesh's allies from using his lantern. Which is cool.

So we finally can stop thresh's lantern now. Just pick poppy support if thresh is in the enemy team (lol)

MyozthirirnNov 26, 20151 votes

Poppy W = Azir R On a better cd tho...

ValexforNov 26, 20151 votes

Yeah 'cause you can't just stand on it and prevent the enemy to click on it, you can't cc the opponent before he picks it, or place a wall before it... thresh's lantern is easy to counter/prevent and usually people forget about it's existence...

Mike Hunts ToxicNov 26, 20153 votes

there is nothing to nerf, its his abilities that are op, not any numbers. he would need a rework that changes everything, kinda like lee sin

Aeolian MelodiesNov 26, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mike Hunts Toxic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=40vyFv5H,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-11-26T06:50:29.954+0000)

there is nothing to nerf, its his abilities that are op, not any numbers. he would need a rework that changes everything, kinda like lee sin

That is false. Everything is technically a "number" and Thresh is just as dependent on him as anyone else.

You can increase his CDs, making his abilities available to him less often so misusing them is more punishing. You can increase his mana costs, reduce his mana pool or mana regeneration, so whiffing abilities is more punishing. You can make him squishier, or slower, so he relies more on good positioning to survive. You can lower the range on abilities, forcing him to commit more. You can lower the duration the lantern waits for you to click it, lowering the window of opportunity. You can straight up remove things from him, like the slow after getting hit by Flay.

Thresh is not that special champion who's magically "immune" to getting significant nerfs. He's just not getting them because Riot likes him being a top pick because #lcsplays.

Hinagiku33Nov 26, 20151 votes

Straight up removing things from him would not be a numbers change, it'd be a mechanics change and that's exactly what Mike was talking about.

Thresh has so much utility that he could do 0 damage and still be a contested pick. There are only two outcomes for kits like that:

Thresh gets a few number nerfs that mean jack all and continues to dominate
Thresh gets a lot of number nerfs and has such high cooldowns, high mana costs, and/or reduced CC duration that he is unplayable

Also, if he is not getting significant nerfs because the company likes him being a dominating top-tier pick, I'd say that makes him "magically immune" to significant nerfs.

Mike Hunts ToxicNov 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=40vyFv5H,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2015-11-26T13:25:39.176+0000)

That is false. Everything is technically a "number" and Thresh is just as dependent on him as anyone else.

You can increase his CDs, making his abilities available to him less often so misusing them is more punishing. You can increase his mana costs, reduce his mana pool or mana regeneration, so whiffing abilities is more punishing. You can make him squishier, or slower, so he relies more on good positioning to survive. You can lower the range on abilities, forcing him to commit more. You can lower the duration the lantern waits for you to click it, lowering the window of opportunity. You can straight up remove things from him, like the slow after getting hit by Flay.

Thresh is not that special champion who's magically "immune" to getting significant nerfs. He's just not getting them because Riot likes him being a top pick because #lcsplays.

you can put 0 dmg on thresh and blitz and they will still get guaranteed kills for their team just with how their combos work

ThatH1N1Nov 26, 20153 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Thresh

Number 1 play rate

18th win rate.

He is fine, plus, there is nothing to change numbers wise.

Cry about changing him alllll day if you want, they won't do it.

Death by GlamourNov 26, 20152 votes

Technically shen leona and tahm had higher win rates

Cloud273Nov 26, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace 1n your hole,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=40vyFv5H,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-26T01:08:54.387+0000)

Technically shen leona and tahm had higher win rates

I guess technically this is true, but Thresh was picked at least 4x more than all of these champs. But I'm not going to draw a conclusion based off of so little data. All of these champs were played less than 5 times. Thresh was played 21 times at worlds this year. There's something seriously wrong with this. It's like we have no diversity among supports. It's like, "I'll just pick Thresh and we're good".

Death by GlamourNov 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I guess technically this is true, but Thresh was picked at least 4x more than all of these champs. But I'm not going to draw a conclusion based off of so little data. All of these champs were played less than 5 times. Thresh was played 21 times at worlds this year. There's something seriously wrong with this. It's like we have no diversity among supports. It's like, "I'll just pick Thresh and we're good".

Well hes the utility supp thats good at wvery thing

JedenVojakNov 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

There's something seriously wrong with this.

Why?

This seems more a matter of perception than anything else. "Being chosen a lot" is not a legitimate reason for nerfs; it means he's generally considered useful, vs more niche or specialist supports.

If you think he needs to be nerfed, you should at the very least be able to say where he's overpowered an needs nerfs... but you don't. You simply have a nebulous assertion that "he's the most chosen support, therefore he must need nerfs in some way".

Every marksman in the game will buy item 3006 as opposed to any other shoe choice; clearly that item must be OP and in massive need of nerfs.

RedCycloneNov 26, 20152 votes

But muh skillcap muh lcs plays muh skillshots

magic poleNov 26, 20152 votes

yeah he's pretty bullshit that he has so much utility yet huge damage and tankiness (compared to other supports)

nami/janna/lulu with comparable utility have no where near his damage / tankiness. Get them caught out and they will easily drop. Thresh? nope 2x massive slow and aoe shield baby and passive stacking armor. oh yeah and ill suppress you as i run away

blitz has his tankiness and pick potential, yet with severe drawbacks and less damage

braum has more tankiness but less utility,less damage, and much less pressure

alistar has more tankiness but much less damage

...

Another forgetten factor that he has (that most supports do not have, except Blitz), is that his mere presence forces you to position differently. You can say that about any champion, but thresh's presence is much more influential, very high, slightly behind blitz's

TobstersNov 26, 20151 votes

Blitz can do way more damage than Thresh. Plus his ulti does AOE damage while thresh's ult only hits one person

magic poleNov 26, 20153 votes

thresh's ult only hits one person

lol

TobstersNov 26, 20151 votes

Well it can slow multiple people but it only damages the first one.

PoskeNov 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=magic pole,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=40vyFv5H,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-11-26T05:32:37.199+0000)

lol

It does dmg once ...

His ultimate is trash ...

KieferrNov 26, 20152 votes

Thresh is very popular among PROFESSIONAL GAMERS = nerf him so it will be increasingly difficult for us normal people to play him. Amazing logic right there. Hey let me try: Ryze 100% winrate in worlds = nerf Ryze. Too strong. That 41% winrate is too overbearing for me.

kaltenashesNov 26, 20152 votes

so if we're nerfing skarner,swain

while we're at it, galio pick rate was never lower, can we nerf him too?

The OasisNov 26, 20152 votes

You know the Thresh mains would never stand for any meaningful nerf to their Waifu. Just look at Lee Sin - They try to nerf him and the lee mains launch a crusade.

LiziLOLNov 26, 20152 votes

the only way to tune him down is to completely gut him

his kit is just too good no matter how much u nerf him, until he is literally unplayable, he will remain top pick

CoolKnightSTNov 26, 20152 votes

Thresh is far from broken. To give a example between the differents:

5x (4W 1L)= 80% winrate (note that this was the prenerfed Tahm) ; Banrate 8 times
21x (11W 10L)= 52% winrate (this was the prenerfed Thresh, only penetrates bonus armor) ; Banrate 6 times

Thresh was always a support that provided peel unknown by previous designed supports. Notice that all support after Thresh besides Bard has this high pickrate ( Braum TahmKench ).

Add this point Thresh is fine, every time riot changes something it's a indirect nerf to him. He might have a lot of options. He's never the best add something and every time a new support get released his loses a strength into one of this area's. Before Braum we had the shielding Thresh build. Before Bard we had the Talis gank assist Thresh build. Not because it was the best build. Before TahmKench was picked Thresh as peel support for any hyper carry. We didn't picked it because he was strong in that area. We just picked it because it was the best option add that moment.

TL:DR Thresh was the first in the so called new generation of supports.

IronwallJacksonNov 26, 20151 votes

I, for one, welcome our new support overlords.

RandomoniumNov 26, 20152 votes

He didn't have the highest win rate. His win rate was barely above 50% (11W 10L), same as it is in most elos. For all the complaining people do about Thresh he has consistently stayed around the 50% win rate patch after patch. He's strong in the right hands but definitely not overpowered.

CherysseNov 26, 20151 votes

They should control him or tone him down a bit, he is TOO POPULAR,

PartholonianNov 26, 20151 votes

What does this even mean? Why should Riot want him to be less popular?

I know why it's bad for a champion to be too unpopular, but how will targeting the popular champions help with that?

Hinagiku33Nov 26, 20151 votes

Because if Thresh is picked every game, then only one other support can be in each game besides Thresh

That means every other support has low pick rates because they aren't as good as Thresh

If being unpopular is bad as you say, and that unpopularity is directly caused by another champ being too good...

...then it sounds like either every support needs to become Thresh-tier or Thresh needs some heavy toning down.

CherysseNov 26, 20151 votes

Thresh as it all, scales, stacks damage-armor, deals damage, utility, he can save you, he can shield you, he has cc, he can make big plays... yeah, he needs to loose something.

BeatzBoyFTWNov 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Among supports. Can we nerf him now please?

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/esports/V0WsriPU-champs-seen-at-worlds-a-list

Riot: Oh shit, QUICK MY MEN! WE HAVE TO FIND AN ALTERNATIVE FOR THIS!! looks left & right without haste .... ..... .......... Swain : ......uh, wut? Riot: Oh, hello :3 Swain : ......help

BronzoidNov 26, 20151 votes

Why?You aren't playing at worlds and his solo queue win rate is poop

JedenVojakNov 26, 20151 votes

How would you nerf Thresh?

PartholonianNov 26, 20151 votes

People complain about his damage a lot, if he ACTUALLY has good damage, that would be a place to nerf him without affecting his core strengths (playmaking). Same with Tahm, both of them are designed in a way where they really don't need to do significant damage to be useful (unlike say Leona, because she has to go ham to land anything except ult, without her passive damage her teammates wouldn't be able to kill the person she's locking down and she would just die uselessly).

On the other hand, if the complainers are full of shit and he actually does Braum level damage or lower already while being squishier than the true tank supports, then there isn't as much room to do something like that.

JedenVojakNov 26, 20152 votes

Well, according to champion.gg comparing his damage average to other supports... the only support that does less damage than him on average is Janna. He's outdamaged by tank supports like Braum and Leona, and does significantly less damage than Tahm Kench.

Thresh is chosen entirely for his raw utility and play making ability - he's very commonly chosen for those reasons. Just because he's popular doesn't mean he needs nerfs, it means that the overall perception by the player base is that he a supports that's generally useful all the time.

GamblerOfLivesNov 26, 20151 votes

Tresh received a nerf when i joined league:P..they nerfed his shield.It used to shield all champs:).Also,they nerfed his ulti.I don;t remember how..but it wasa big nerf. And tresh can't be nerfed..his kit is problematic..but he one of the most fun champs in league;)

Earl EulrichNov 26, 20151 votes

http://oracleselixir.com/statistics/international/2015-world-championships-champion-statistics/

not sure why you´d nerf a Champ with only 44%winrate, when litterally everyone else had 50%+ - and Tahm even getting to >70%.

ValexforNov 26, 20151 votes

Thresh is perfectly fine, he's less tanky than other tank supports, he's HARD (you don't just spam skill and hope one connects) he's got less range than other ranged champs, his q is easy to dodge, his e requires perfect mouse positioning (i'ts easy to fuck up e and let an opponent escape), don't ask for a Thresh nerf, but improve your positioning, since if you find him strong, you are probably bad at positioning yourself.

warpenguin555Nov 26, 20151 votes

That moment when you run out of space in the title XD but yeah, he only had the most wins, not highest win rate

IS3E531E3F964391Nov 26, 20151 votes

gotta nerf janna dough

Cloud273Nov 27, 20151 votes

Someone once said that traditional support are garbage. I can now say with certainty that this is true. Soraka, Nami, and Taric (heal type supports) weren't picked even once.