@ Riot about that CoC nerf & other stuff, have you…

Spoofghoul · 2016-11-18T14:23:18.094Z

Making CoC scale with bonus health? Will totally prevent the abuse cases like for example Riven taking it, i would be fine with riven taking it if she built a lot of health Other Resolve tree changes Also why don't we swap unyielding & Legendary guardian, in fact make legendary guardian a tier 2 and the new siegemaster tier 1 since it is only useful in lane And make a couple small adjustments Legendary guardian tier2 grants 3-15 armor/mr based on enemies nearby Unyielding tier 5 Grants bonus armor and magic resist based on 1,5% of bonus health which means won't abuse it and it would make it a good mastery on anyone building defense & health at 2k bonus health which is pretty normal for a full build tank or juggernaut this would grant 30 resistances Making it scale with bonus health will also prevent abuse cases. This way Resolve tree will make a lot more sense scaling wise Early tier masteries grant more flat boosts later tiers scale better with your build & play style similar to how Ferocity and Cunning trees work.

RivuoNov 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It was intended that this was a mastery that people could take if they wanted to add some windowed durability to their champion without having to compromise their build path to do so (hence why it's not %bonus health). At the same time, we wanted to make the mastery not so generalist that everybody takes it (eg. Strength of Ages).

I would say your definition of "abuser" in this case is actually something that we desire; sharp masteries that synergise with a subset of champions, but not generally good for everybody. I would imagine in a balanced state that Riven could take any of Fervor (against Tanks for sustained damage), Thunderlords (for quick burst against a squishy) or CoC (if she is facing an assassin and needs to survive) depending on the game. I would agree with you that if CoC is the only mastery that Riven could ever take, then we've failed.

imo adcs are suffering extremely hard right now except for vayne jinx and jhin

RiotNot SurrenderingNov 19, 20164 votes

{quoted}

imo adcs are suffering extremely hard right now except for vayne jinx and jhin

Would agree warlords users seem to disproportionately benefiting at the moment compared to fervor users. Investigating whether that's actually true and will be looking to potentially make some changes in 6.24.

Shadow HazardNov 19, 20161 votes

Will that be along the lines of more looking into the mastery or looking into the champs?

ProfDrDeathNov 19, 20161 votes

Could the reason for that be grounded in what the two masteries give, respectively?

Fervor gives an ADC straight-up more damage after auto-attacking a bit. At the moment, it takes 10 auto-attacks to get full benefit from the keystone as an ADC, which is quite a lot of ramp-up time - and usually, by the time the ADC got 10 autos off (5 seconds into the fight at least), the fight is already decided. Warlord's gives Lifesteal, plain and simple. This is extremely interesting for an ADC, as it allows one to forego buying a Vampiric Sceptre (and sinking 900 gold and an item slot into it) till very late in the game, and concentrate all your money towards reaching that crucial two item spike.

Personally, I think that 10 stacks for Fervor and it not stacking on abilities is restricting the mastery too much. Would it be a good idea to scale it back to 8 stacks and/or have ability hits give 2 stacks with a 5 second CD?

RivuoNov 19, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fizz Enthusiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3y53YMJ8,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-11-19T05:53:43.172+0000)

Would agree warlords users seem to disproportionately benefiting at the moment compared to fervor users. Investigating whether that's actually true and will be looking to potentially make some changes in 6.24.

I like how your post states that you agree with me yet mine gets downvoted and yours upvoted. Classical boards

Anyways... i think that the new shield mastery is a bit excessive and every adc ( except jhin jinx and vayne ) are the only ones capable of doing damage.

The armor pen builds from lucian and MF made their spikes delayed pretty hard and you can literally face tank MF and jhin ult now if you have cloth armor.

Thats just my take on it. I was a 13-6 lucian with lord dom against a rengar who had banshees + thornmail. My ult took about 30% of his health ( fully loaded in him )

Devilangel6161Nov 20, 20161 votes

That may have something to do with the fact armour pen Lucian sucks. But on the point of suffering ADCs, blue ez is still fine and cait is as strong as ever. So and ashes damage are down but there utility is still valuable. The only ones who have suffered are the ones who were bad anyway. Draven, twitch, kalista and tristana.

SkiasNov 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It was intended that this was a mastery that people could take if they wanted to add some windowed durability to their champion without having to compromise their build path to do so (hence why it's not %bonus health). At the same time, we wanted to make the mastery not so generalist that everybody takes it (eg. Strength of Ages).

I would say your definition of "abuser" in this case is actually something that we desire; sharp masteries that synergise with a subset of champions, but not generally good for everybody. I would imagine in a balanced state that Riven could take any of Fervor (against Tanks for sustained damage), Thunderlords (for quick burst against a squishy) or CoC (if she is facing an assassin and needs to survive) depending on the game. I would agree with you that if CoC is the only mastery that Riven could ever take, then we've failed.

Its actually not great on Taric either. Unreliable single form of CC.

SpoofghoulNov 18, 20161 votes

Ok Ok

I Understand and i guess it's ok for Riven to take it i mean i like such mastery design better anyway

But then what about fervor/warlords/windspeaker/Bond??? Not exactly usable by many champions. I mean why shoudl riven have say 5 keystones to choose from but say, Brand only gets 1.

And what about the other things i suggested changes to how resolve scales, it's kind of opposite to the design philosophy of the masteries as a whole right now.

Ariel the CruelNov 18, 20162 votes

I mean why shoudl riven have say 5 keystones to choose from but say, Brand only gets 1.

Sivir Ricochet blades doesn't even proc Thunderlord's. All the key-stone suck!

Devilangel6161Nov 20, 20161 votes

Soviet runs warlords tho. You never ran Thunderlords on sic she needed to scale not burst

Ariel the CruelNov 20, 20161 votes

My point is, thunderlord's procs on abilities. But she has an ability that specifically doesn't proc it. Riot went out of their way to give her one less option.

Unless they've fixed it since I last tried.

LeeerzeichenNov 19, 20161 votes

Brand can use coc as well, but it's just not good on him because he usually doesn't want to be in the middle of 5 people.

SpoofghoulNov 19, 20161 votes

yea exactly it's also based on proximity

So it's not exactly great on anyone with long range cc since htye wont be in the middle of the fight anyway so they get a pathetic little shield

Devilangel6161Nov 20, 20161 votes

And depending on what you class as his one keystone he actually has 2. Dft and Thunderlords work

Ariel the CruelNov 20, 20161 votes

Fiddlesticks I've been loving his ult synergy.

HazyCloud7Nov 19, 20161 votes

What about in the case of Hecarim? Would you consider him an abuser of CoC? Personally I think it lets him get away with delaying items that provide both health and resistances without making an appropriate trade off for doing so.

Devilangel6161Nov 20, 20161 votes

So basically makes the tri force rush in the jungle super safe before transitioning into tank...

The Sword SaintNov 19, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fizz Enthusiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3y53YMJ8,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-11-18T21:22:26.901+0000)

It was intended that this was a mastery that people could take if they wanted to add some windowed durability to their champion without having to compromise their build path to do so (hence why it's not %bonus health). At the same time, we wanted to make the mastery not so generalist that everybody takes it (eg. Strength of Ages).

I would say your definition of "abuser" in this case is actually something that we desire; sharp masteries that synergise with a subset of champions, but not generally good for everybody. I would imagine in a balanced state that Riven could take any of Fervor (against Tanks for sustained damage), Thunderlords (for quick burst against a squishy) or CoC (if she is facing an assassin and needs to survive) depending on the game. I would agree with you that if CoC is the only mastery that Riven could ever take, then we've failed.

I've been cautiously excited about CoC opening a new play style for Riven, but wary of actually practicing with it out of fear that if it becomes viable there will be changes that make it no longer something Riven can or should take. It sounds like you're saying here that it wasn't an oversight, and I shouldn't be afraid to play Riven with CoC because it's not going to be nerfed for her to prevent her from using it, am I reading that right?

@ Riot about that CoC nerf & other stuff, have you considered . .

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