Can someone explain why Warwick's the epitome of balance?

Seenan·Jan 31, 2018·2 votes·484 views

I hear it pretty often. Just wondering why.

15 Comments

JamareeJan 31, 20183 votes

He has clear wells designed flaws and weaknesses but strengths that go along with it.

His chase game is terrifying but in turn his ability to run away is shit, you know what he is going to do and there is room to play around his kit.

His ultimate is also fair for what it does, unlike the only other suppress in the game which is just a point and click, he has to aim his so his reward of the hardest cc in the game is justified.

WanderingHobbitJan 31, 20181 votes

If you could give me some tips on my thread "Perma ban warwick or nah" Id appreciate it.

Hèntaî Jan 31, 20181 votes

Or right here :p

SeenanJan 31, 20182 votes

{quoted}

He has clear wells designed flaws and weaknesses but strengths that go along with it.

His chase game is terrifying but in turn his ability to run away is shit, you know what he is going to do and there is room to play around his kit.

His ultimate is also fair for what it does, unlike the only other suppress in the game which is just a point and click, he has to aim his so his reward of the hardest cc in the game is justified.

This I don't believe. His ability to run away is pretty well-off if there's at least one low hp champ and/or if he activates his damage reduction/fear. And he can ULT away if anything, which is nearly a screen-away ult...with a decently low CD.

There's no risk to using his fear/damage reduction, since it goes off even if CC'd. Imo, they need to remove the damage reduction portion of that. He's already a bruiser, why does he also need a fear that pretty much can't be stopped if he gets close?

6th best jungler on na.op.gg.

Chembaron YamadaJan 31, 20181 votes

His W passive doesn't help him running away, since it just grants out of combat movement speed. If you keep attacking him, he doesn't get the MS.

And yes, he can use his ult to get away. But you can prevent even that. The hitbox at the start of the jumpmis pretty wide, if someone is standing next to him, he can block his way and therefore prevent the escape again. Think like bodyblocking an escape for Vi with Q.

JamareeFeb 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

This I don't believe. His ability to run away is pretty well-off if there's at least one low hp champ

Do you know how situational it is to have a low health opponent on the total other direction you are that isn't attempting to pincer you?

and/or if he activates his damage reduction/fear

Yeah, and you can still poke him and bait it out, just back up and wait a bit, or position yourself on the outside of it so you will still be in range when he roars. There is clear counterplay even to his roar unlike says Fiddle's fear.

And he can ULT away if anything, which is nearly a screen-away ult...with a decently low CD.

You know that while being slowed or without speed buffs (both things he won't have while being chased), it only goes 275 range away right? Besides, if you are using your ultimate to escape, you aren't doing your job as a Warwick.

There's no risk to using his fear/damage reduction, since it goes off even if CC'd. Imo, they need to remove the damage reduction portion of that. He's already a bruiser, why does he also need a fear that pretty much can't be stopped if he gets close?

To give him actual ganking pressure pre six? That was one of Warwick's biggest problems pre rework, he couldn't gank pre six, sure now with his bite and speed boost he is better at it, but without hard CC of some kind, junglers tend to be really subpar at ganking.

They don't need to remove it, it is there to allow him to dive into a team and not immediately die.

6th best jungler on na.op.gg.

Ok...what is your point?

Morgana is the 6th best mid laner

Sion is the 6th best support

What is the point you are trying to make here?

DuskDaUmbreonJan 31, 20181 votes

Because of a few reasons.

First off, he's had the least balance changes of everyone (besides intentionally dumpstered champions) since his rework (I think, besides the stat update everyone got, he had one other change), and he's maintained a fairly close to 50% winrate.

Second, is because he feels relatively fair to fight. He doesn't feel unfair, he doesn't feel broken. And what makes that amazing is that, not only was he a problematic champion pre-rework (Sole purpose was to nuke the ADC with his R in late game), it's that he's a draintank, and Riot has constantly had problems with those in the past (See: Aatrox, Darius, Akali, Fiora, Kindred (sorta), Nasus...). And, on top of that, it proved that CertainlyT is amazing for game balance...as long as he's kept in check.

WanderingHobbitJan 31, 20181 votes

If you could give me some tips on my thread "Perma ban warwick or nah" Id appreciate it.

SeenanJan 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Because of a few reasons.

First off, he's had the least balance changes of everyone (besides intentionally dumpstered champions) since his rework (I think, besides the stat update everyone got, he had one other change), and he's maintained a fairly close to 50% winrate.

Second, is because he feels relatively fair to fight. He doesn't feel unfair, he doesn't feel broken. And what makes that amazing is that, not only was he a problematic champion pre-rework (Sole purpose was to nuke the ADC with his R in late game), it's that he's a draintank, and Riot has constantly had problems with those in the past (See: Aatrox, Darius, Akali, Fiora, Kindred (sorta), Nasus...). And, on top of that, it proved that CertainlyT is amazing for game balance...as long as he's kept in check.

He's STILL a drain-tank, only now, he's more tankier with his damage reduction.

Alex h8721Jan 31, 20181 votes

Yeah but they reduced his healing, passive healing used to always be active now it only turns on when he's under 50% hp (double under 25%), old ww b/c of this used to be able to build bloodrazor+Bork into full tank and be a monster, he could solo baron on 4 items.

EnderspiderJan 31, 20181 votes

{quoted} And, on top of that, it proved that CertainlyT is amazing for game balance...as long as he's kept in check.

100% agree

zarxus1234Jan 31, 20181 votes

thats just a small crowd. Probably because his rework made him fun to play i guess. I ban warwick every game. He might be the most op champ in the game.

SeenanJan 31, 20181 votes

I personally don't think he's balanced. I think he's a bit on the strong side considering how tanky he is and how much damage he ends up doing...AND he can solo dragon/rift herald at a low level.

This website - http://bestbans.com/ - has him on every 'TOP X BAN' because he has a high influence to win. The only one he doesn't look like he influences is bronze. But Silver until DIAMOND, he has a high influence to win. I don't think that's high balance, nor high mastery since even in Silver, he proves a good winrate.

na.op.gg holds data from plat+ and he even has a decent winrate on that.

He needs to lose his damage reduction, imo. All he needs to build is a ton of health (Titanic...Cinder...) and the damage reduction does the rest. He should need to invest in tanky gear. That, and potentially his global sense.

ModKnightsKemplarJan 31, 20181 votes

People easily get balance and design confused; I do think he's one of the best designed champs in League right now, but he's not the best balanced imo.

The reason DuskDaUmbreon gave is correct; he feels good/fair. But I think it's important to dive into why he feels that way.

WW has windows of power that you can play around. His strengths are clear, his weaknesses are clear. You know what you need to do against a WW or to play alongside one. He's intuitive. These things are underappreciated, especially at high elo where everyone has formed the "correct" impulses around every champ in the game, nearly.

With WW, you don't need a lot of experience for your impulses to be the correct ones. That's why he feels fair. On top of that, he fits his theme incredibly well; his abilities feel like a hunter, so the WW players gets a visceral experience by playing him. Likewise, playing against him can be slightly nerve-wracking, but only for those small windows where you are low hp and WW is nearby. He's influential on any game that he's in without being oppressive.

His numbers are pretty balanced, for the most part, but that will change with the meta as different items or different runes come and go. For the last few weeks he's actually trending pretty strong from some of the data that I watch. What's much more important is that Riot can tweak certain balance levers without making WW feel less like WW. That's part of good design, but doesn't mean he'll always be super well balanced.

SeenanJan 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

People easily get balance and design confused; I do think he's one of the best designed champs in League right now, but he's not the best balanced imo.

The reason DuskDaUmbreon gave is correct; he feels good/fair. But I think it's important to dive into why he feels that way.

WW has windows of power that you can play around. His strengths are clear, his weaknesses are clear. You know what you need to do against a WW or to play alongside one. He's intuitive. These things are underappreciated, especially at high elo where everyone has formed the "correct" impulses around every champ in the game, nearly.

With WW, you don't need a lot of experience for your impulses to be the correct ones. That's why he feels fair. On top of that, he fits his theme incredibly well; his abilities feel like a hunter, so the WW players gets a visceral experience by playing him. Likewise, playing against him can be slightly nerve-wracking, but only for those small windows where you are low hp and WW is nearby. He's influential on any game that he's in without being oppressive.

His numbers are pretty balanced, for the most part, but that will change with the meta as different items or different runes come and go. For the last few weeks he's actually trending pretty strong from some of the data that I watch. What's much more important is that Riot can tweak certain balance levers without making WW feel less like WW. That's part of good design, but doesn't mean he'll always be super well balanced.

See my recent post.

He needs to lose his damage reduction, imo. All he needs to build is a ton of health (Titanic...Cinder...) and the damage reduction does the rest. He should need to invest in tanky gear. That, and potentially his global sense needs to go.

He can gank from virtually anywhere if the person is low hp cause he runs at mach-10.