Why garen isn't played in LCS

Tychusfindlay919··5 votes·5,312 views

It seems to be general consensus that garen has:

#1 sufficient damage

#2 sufficient tankiness

#3 a fine ultimate that fulfills its job well (although perhaps a tiny CD buff may help)

So what is garen's issue that makes him essentially UNPLAYABLE in LCS and even just higher ranks in general? He has ZERO CC and he has NO DECENT WAY TO CLOSE GAPS (remember that garen is ALL MELEE unlike other top laners like darius who can pull people in or cc in other ways). It's almost impossible to play garen in team fights unless you load him up with a bunch of anti CC and speed buff items (think mercurial scimitar and boots of swiftness and what-not) that then dampens his ability to do what he should be doing from the start (tanking hard and doing decent damage while waiting for an opportune time to execute someone before he has to run back/die).

His early game is absolutely fine and needs no buffs, and his late game doesn't need any sort of damage or tank buffs.

So I propose that his Q not only removes all speed debuffs, but also grants him immunity to all slows and makes stuns and snares 25% shorter for 3.5 seconds after level 4 is unlocked.

This should make it so that Garen can better close gaps between the enemy team without breaking his already sufficiently strong and bully-centric early game.

Thoughts?

18 Comments

Tyrone Lannister4 votes

He gets kited to hell and back

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tyrone Lannister,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3vBkWPZw,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-02-29T22:50:39.023+0000)

He gets kited to hell and back

And this potential buff is intended to address that because slows right now stop him too easily. otherwise, he would be able to close distances for the most part.

We might even need to make it so that each level also gives +2.5% movement speed bonus to the 30% (becomes 40% at level 5).

Tyrone Lannister1 votes

I suffered enough garen back in the juggernaut days. The idea of a 3.5k health pseudo tank with villan active sounds terrifying. But then again i play and can condemn pesky demacians away

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tyrone Lannister,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3vBkWPZw,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-02-29T23:53:44.859+0000)

I suffered enough garen back in the juggernaut days. The idea of a 3.5k health pseudo tank with villan active sounds terrifying. But then again i play and can condemn pesky demacians away

True, but this isn't meant to turn him back into the OP juggernaut, it's only meant to make him have a way to close a gap, you know, like EVERY other top laner melee champ played in League right now (darius = has pull, nautilus = has pull, jax = has jump, trundle = has ranged slow and self speed, malphite = has ranged slow and ranged gap closing knock up, etc. etc.).

Tyrone Lannister1 votes

How low cd is his q? Curious

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tyrone Lannister,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3vBkWPZw,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-01T00:00:08.524+0000)

How low cd is his q? Curious

Garen's Q has an 8 second cooldown after auto attacking with the decisive strike buff.

So basically, if Garen activated his Q and immediately auto attacked something, he would have to wait 8 seconds since activation.

If garen activated his Q, and auto attacked 3 seconds later with decisive strike, he would have to wait 11 seconds in total since he first activated his Q.

If garen activated Q and never auto attacked and allowed his Q to simply expire after 4.5 seconds, then he would have to wait 12.5 seconds in total since he activated his Q.

Death by Glamour2 votes

Bad teamfight.

Ult isnt that great. Long cd for a lane bully and negated by 1300g

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace 1n your hole,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3vBkWPZw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-29T22:30:37.728+0000)

Bad teamfight.

Ult isnt that great. Long cd for a lane bully and negated by 1300g

So make his Q and W have smaller cooldown timings (allowing him to poke more often)? And for his ultimate being negated by (I assume) hexdrinker, isn't that true for many other magic abilities?

And his team fight is bad because, as I noted, he has no effective way to close gaps except a mediocre cleanse with a small speed boost that gets countered by any slow no matter how tiny after initial activation.

Death by Glamour3 votes

Hes still outclassed not to mention he is a lane bully designed to shut down his lane opponent.

Lcs is all about the tramfights and objective control

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace 1n your hole,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3vBkWPZw,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-29T22:40:20.273+0000)

Hes still outclassed not to mention he is a lane bully designed to shut down his lane opponent.

Lcs is all about the tramfights and objective control

Yet pantheon is still played even though, outside of his ultimate, he too is essentially just a lane bully for the most part.

If the lane bullies actually DID their BULLYING job (like pantheon), then i think we would see more use of them in higher ranks as opposed to just gold and below.

Death by Glamour1 votes

He got a huge unintentional buff tho.

All those new armour pen items and steraks basically changed him from having to build fairly tanky to an assasin build path with maw and steraks keeping him alive.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace 1n your hole,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3vBkWPZw,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-29T22:46:37.815+0000)

He got a huge unintentional buff tho.

All those new armour pen items and steraks basically changed him from having to build fairly tanky to an assasin build path with maw and steraks keeping him alive.

Doesn't change the fact that he was, is, and always will be, a designated lane bully who was purposely designed to be like that. Why is he the only VIABLE lane bully in higher ranked play even though he ISN'T THE ONLY lane bully? I'm not asking for another juggernaut age (I think it's safe to say that we ALL HATED THAT), but I think rarely played bullies like garen need love.

Lil Lewd Witch1 votes

{quoted}

Yet pantheon is still played even though, outside of his ultimate, he too is essentially just a lane bully for the most part.

If the lane bullies actually DID their BULLYING job (like pantheon), then i think we would see more use of them in higher ranks as opposed to just gold and below.

Pantheon has barely been played in the LCS. I have only seen it in one match, and Im including Champions league in the Asia leagues also. Thats not a good example at all

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spase Blitz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3vBkWPZw,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-02-29T23:19:06.996+0000)

Pantheon has barely been played in the LCS. I have only seen it in one match, and Im including Champions league in the Asia leagues also. Thats not a good example at all

In which case, all the more reason as to why bullies need love. LCS right now has turned into tankfest tops with a heavy emphasis on tanky, CC champs like malphite, nautilus, and poppy. The only champs used that don't fit that description are fiora, graves, and gangplank.

But here we are with multitudes of melee bully-champs that never see any use not only in LCS, but even in higher elos in general. They need to have appropriate buffs so that they're stronger than they are now but not as strong as when the juggernauts reigned over the map.

Dominick Destine2 votes

Garen has a very powerful kit coupled with high defensive stats.... this alongside arguably the most devastating single target ultimate in the game (Against the villain).

However the counter-part to those strengths is that he has a lot of counter play, arguably more counter-play than any champion not called Sion. In the highest levels of play (LCS) his weaknesses are made far more prominent and exploitable.

That is why.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3vBkWPZw,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-02-29T23:15:51.992+0000)

Garen has a very powerful kit coupled with high defensive stats.... this alongside arguably the most devastating single target ultimate in the game (Against the villain).

However the counter-part to those strengths is that he has a lot of counter play, arguably more counter-play than any champion not called Sion. In the highest levels of play (LCS) his weaknesses are made far more prominent and exploitable.

That is why.

A powerful kit except for the fact that on top of having no CC at all, he is also FULLY MELEE (his ult is ranged but barely, other more prominent champs like nautilus and darius and malphite have ranged CC abilities like pulls and gap-closing knockups and slows) and his only gap closer (his Q) isn't as strong as it should be.

Hence, his Q is the focus of this thread, because if his Q got its much needed buffs, he would be a viable (but not BROKEN) champion.

Meep Man1 votes

Garen would definitely be picked IF Kalista wasn't such an amazing ADC pick in the LCS right now.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3vBkWPZw,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-03-01T01:01:04.433+0000)

Garen would definitely be picked IF Kalista wasn't such an amazing ADC pick in the LCS right now.

Yeah but her ban rate makes that irrelevant.

That's part of the team building process. You map out what team you want to pick, and you eliminate the hardest of counters.

It'd be no different than banning garen if your top laner wanted to go jax.

Garen isn't being picked in LCS right now because he is (and this will shock many lower league players unlike myself) underpowered.

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