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Tenacity Rework Idea

ModKnightsKemplar··7 votes·1,721 views

BACKGROUND A popular opinion around here is that tenacity is kind of useless. There are so many knock-ups and displacements in the game that getting tenacity can feel like a waste. While contemplating this issue today, I came up with a simple change that might fix it; I was wondering what the community would think.

THE IDEA Instead of lowering the duration of some cc, tenacity should give damage reduction during the duration of any cc.

HOW IS THIS POSSIBLY A GOOD IDEA?!?!?! Because it addresses the issue of being cc'd in a similar way. Basically, it reduces the pain around being cc'd, especially for melee champions that are most likely to experience it. And the reason I think this could be better than current tenacity is because this could apply to knock ups and other displacements.

OKAY... BUT ISN'T THIS A PRETTY DISRUPTIVE CHANGE? Honestly, I don't think so. From the perspective of the people applying the cc, the tradeoff remains similar; you can catch that tank out, but you probably can't kill him. You still want to save your cc for the squishier targets. From the perspective of the tank, this still means that you can dive in front of that Morg binding for your Marksman (excuse me, did I say Marksman? I meant your Mordekaiser, of course) without worrying that you'll be blown to bits for it.

I don't think this is a terrible idea, but if it is, tell me why! If you think I'm on to something, but you have a better idea, please share! Let us discuss, Gameplay Board.

20 Comments

Linna Excel2 votes

I'd be fine if it boosted your armor/mr for 3 seconds.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Loving the brainstorm.

This is why I posted, right here.

Paroe1 votes

Why not make tenacity additive, give tanks sources of it on their tank-specific items.... Or riot just makes it a global change that you cant be chain CC'd by the same hard CC.

Warlord Scrap1 votes

I like the idea but drugs are bad mkay so i hadda vote for that

Who Fed Ru1 votes

Would kind of feel just bullshitty, especially against squishy champions, if you manage to cc them and they just take no damage suddenly. Just wouldn't feel good at all if you can't kill that MasterYi in time while he is cc'ed.

Also, it would kind of defeat the whole purpose of knockups, because then knockups would be the same as stuns as long as Yasuo isn't in the game. It wouldn't be hard at all to code the game in a way to make tenacity affect knockups, but the whole point of knockups is the same as true damage, that you cc the enemy for exactly that duration and nothing less.

And tenacity isn't useless at all the way it is right now, stuns, snares and all the cc affected by tenacity is still the majority by far. Everytime I don't buy item 3111 it feels like I'm cc'ed for years once one hits me.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I don't feel knock-ups are really doing a good job at that. They've become pretty frequent. That might not be a problem except that tenacity exists. And it's pretty useless against a variety of champs with a lot of cc; Nami was the first one to come out that I remember, but since then we've had many more.

Who Fed Ru1 votes

{quoted}

I don't feel knock-ups are really doing a good job at that. They've become pretty frequent. That might not be a problem except that tenacity exists. And it's pretty useless against a variety of champs with a lot of cc; Nami was the first one to come out that I remember, but since then we've had many more.

Actually if you look at that list:

https://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Knockup_champion

There are only 31 champions with knockups, and many of those have been around the game for ages. Knockups really aren't that frequent.

Almost every champion has some kind of hard cc that isn't a knockup, and even champions with a knockup often have other hard cc in their kits that get affected by tenacity.

z63XnLCMwX2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3muHAA8o,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-06-21T22:45:36.353+0000)

Actually if you look at that list:

https://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Knockup_champion

There are only 31 champions with knockups, and many of those have been around the game for ages. Knockups really aren't that frequent.

Almost every champion has some kind of hard cc that isn't a knockup, and even champions with a knockup often have other hard cc in their kits that get affected by tenacity.

Our lastest batch of champions, Zoe, Xayah/Rakan, Pyke, Ornn, Kayn, 3/6 of them has knock ups and the other 2 has some other disgusting mechanic. Such as pyke have a pull which is an airborne skill and can't be reduced by tenacity either.

Paroe2 votes

{quoted}

Our lastest batch of champions, Zoe, Xayah/Rakan, Pyke, Ornn, Kayn, 3/6 of them has knock ups and the other 2 has some other disgusting mechanic. Such as pyke have a pull which is an airborne skill and can't be reduced by tenacity either.

"Knocks" - that being all re-positional CC - arent affected by tenacity. And repositional CC is the current flavor riot likes.

Who Fed Ru1 votes

{quoted}

Our lastest batch of champions, Zoe, Xayah/Rakan, Pyke, Ornn, Kayn, 3/6 of them has knock ups and the other 2 has some other disgusting mechanic. Such as pyke have a pull which is an airborne skill and can't be reduced by tenacity either.

Even then, combined they still have way more other hard cc than knockups.

5050BS1 votes

You would work the % damage Reduction so its not god like on Tanks but meaningful on squishys.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Actually, I think it should be the opposite.

The whole idea of tenacity, imo, is to give melees a fighting chance against ranged champs. If they are always cc'd, they can't reach the backline.

For a squishy, you should be aiming to avoid cc altogether, and even if you do weather the cc with damage reduction, you're still super squishy after that and you'll still die. I think this version of tenacity would actually be less useful on squishies for that reason.

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

{quoted}

Actually, I think it should be the opposite.

The whole idea of tenacity, imo, is to give melees a fighting chance against ranged champs. If they are always cc'd, they can't reach the backline.

For a squishy, you should be aiming to avoid cc altogether, and even if you do weather the cc with damage reduction, you're still super squishy after that and you'll still die. I think this version of tenacity would actually be less useful on squishies for that reason.

What if it's someone like graves. His build focuses on reducing damage, death dance, pd, red smite, wouldn't that put him over the edge if he then gains more damage reduction during the only time you can burst him which is when he's CC'ed. Especially if you have him slowed, he would then gain damage reduction allowing him to fight you.

Doge20201 votes

{quoted}

What if it's someone like graves. His build focuses on reducing damage, death dance, pd, red smite, wouldn't that put him over the edge if he then gains more damage reduction during the only time you can burst him which is when he's CC'ed. Especially if you have him slowed, he would then gain damage reduction allowing him to fight you.

Well that would only happen if he builds tenacity. But if you fight him with somebody that deals true damage then you can still kill him while he has that damage reduction. True damage can’t get reduced by damage reductions I believe.

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

{quoted}

Well that would only happen if he builds tenacity. But if you fight him with somebody that deals true damage then you can still kill him while he has that damage reduction. True damage can’t get reduced by damage reductions I believe.

Good point.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Or we could just make knock-ups affected by tenacity like it should be..

I know with dota, they do this thing where X works vs Y unless its an ultimate..

D357R0Y3R1 votes

i feel like tenacity needs help

but i'm so SICK of damge reduction and true damage being implemented in the game

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I mean, if we're gonna have all the true damage... might as well get some damage reduction to slow things down a little bit, right?

I'm aware it won't directly counter the true damage, but it will everything else. Seems like a win to me.

DearPear1 votes

IMO the champions that has to be CC'd to be killed are going to profit massively from that, which is not a good idea. Also, some champions that rely on short bursts during short CCs will simply see their DPS drastically reduced.

Also, how do you handle soft CCs such as slows that can be perma applied? Are we getting a perma defense buff when permaslowed? Because slowing a person might equal helping them instead of crippling them.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I don't think it will be that bad on people like Yi. If he itemizes into a ton of tenacity, then he'll lose quit a bit of his threat. Seems like a fair trade-off. One of the other comments suggested armor/mr boost; that would help also.

As far as perma-slows, that's an issue, but not a huge one imo. I mean, we're not talking 50% damage reduction here. Maybe 10-20% tops? If you're getting kited around, having 20% damage reduction that you have to give up damage for seems pretty fair to me.

I do think immobile melees have it a bit hard in this game, and this is an idea that could help them out, especially at higher elos where they struggle the most. At least, I hope it would.

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