Just a reminder.
If something having adequate counterplay make it too weak. Then it’s a failure by design.
Just a little something riot seems to forget.
15 Comments
DalekZec4 votesAh...the point of a counter is to make another weak. There is no "too weak". If Syndra E can counter Lee Sin's Q, does it mean Lee is a failure?
The correct thing to say is: If something has little to no counterplay, then it's a failure by design.
The thigh guy1 votesAh...the point of a counter is to make another weak. There is no "too weak". If Syndra E can counter Lee Sin's Q, does it mean Lee is a failure?
The correct thing to say is: If something has little to no counterplay, then it's a failure by design.
No. Syndra e counter lee q is counterplay. If you removed thay interation because it made lee too weak in general, then lee would be a failure. But that isn’t the case.
DalekZec2 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3jwZjJjZ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-05T21:30:54.089+0000)
No. Syndra e counter lee q is counterplay. If you removed thay interation because it made lee too weak in general, then lee would be a failure. But that isn’t the case.
Then what is the point you're trying to make exactly? That too much counterplay will become toxic?
The thigh guy1 votesThen what is the point you're trying to make exactly? That too much counterplay will become toxic?
Counterplay and counter picks are two very different things.
DalekZec1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3jwZjJjZ,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T23:31:31.310+0000)
Counterplay and counter picks are two very different things.
And? That's it? They may be 2 different elements for the sake of fairness but how exactly are they involved to determine if a champion is a failure or not? The only thing a champion can be a failure if there's little to no counterplay. But with what you said "adequate"(satisfactory or acceptable in quality or quantity.) Which means at an acceptable and fair amount. So how is an acceptable and fair amount of counterplay gonna spell a big failure to a champion?
I think you chose the wrong for this 1 mate.
The thigh guy1 votesAnd? That's it? They may be 2 different elements for the sake of fairness but how exactly are they involved to determine if a champion is a failure or not? The only thing a champion can be a failure if there's little to no counterplay. But with what you said "adequate"(satisfactory or acceptable in quality or quantity.) Which means at an acceptable and fair amount. So how is an acceptable and fair amount of counterplay gonna spell a big failure to a champion?
I think you chose the wrong for this 1 mate.
No. I didn’t. And I’m not saying too much counterplay = failure.
To little counterplay = failure.
I’ll use akali as another example.
What is her counterplay? Oh. She’s melee.
What did they do. Oh. We’ll give her 39 dashes and 59 ms steroid. Okay. So not her counterplay is invalidated.
Jhin. What’s his counterplay? Squishy immobile.
What did riot do? Oh well let him run around at 950 ms whenever he crits.
Release rework Aatrox. What was his counterplay? Dodge the highly telegraphed q.
What did riot do? Gave him 3 fucking dashes to aim it with.
If a champion is too weak, because they have counterplay that is accessible to everyone, they are a failure. You cannot change my mind.
Malz is a perfect example of a champion with adequate counterplay. If you choose to not build a qss. Or a banshees, and don’t dodge his highly telegraphed silence. You are going to get fucked.
But if you do any of these things. He isn’t nearly as strong.
There is no option for this for say riven. Or urgot. Or yi.
DalekZec1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3jwZjJjZ,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-06T00:25:06.479+0000)
No. I didn’t. And I’m not saying too much counterplay = failure.
To little counterplay = failure.
I’ll use akali as another example.
What is her counterplay? Oh. She’s melee.
What did they do. Oh. We’ll give her 39 dashes and 59 ms steroid. Okay. So not her counterplay is invalidated.
Jhin. What’s his counterplay? Squishy immobile.
What did riot do? Oh well let him run around at 950 ms whenever he crits.
Release rework Aatrox. What was his counterplay? Dodge the highly telegraphed q.
What did riot do? Gave him 3 fucking dashes to aim it with.
If a champion is too weak, because they have counterplay that is accessible to everyone, they are a failure. You cannot change my mind.
Malz is a perfect example of a champion with adequate counterplay. If you choose to not build a qss. Or a banshees, and don’t dodge his highly telegraphed silence. You are going to get fucked.
But if you do any of these things. He isn’t nearly as strong.
There is no option for this for say riven. Or urgot. Or yi.
Akali is designed by CertainlyT. He's allergic to counterplay anyway.
Jhin I'm not sure how he works. Isn't it attack speed that makes him go fast? Like that build where he goes all sonic but isn't that hurting in terms of damage?
Aatrox got nerfed and has only 1 dash now. Give that thing a break already.
"If a champion is too weak, because they have counterplay that is accessible to everyone, they are a failure. You cannot change my mind."
Well I guess I'm talking to a wall. Maybe you haven't noticed, but everything is available for us in terms of counterplay. Doesn't make a champion a failure. What makes a champion a failure is if there is little to none counterplay. Even if you're playing vs something that counters you, you can still counter it.
CrazyMonkeyCZ1 votesSo every single low elo stomper pick is bad design?
The thigh guy1 votesSo every single low elo stomper pick is bad design?
Is it wrong? Would you say yi is good design? “Me right click after 25 minute. Me win!”
How about garen. I have never once said. Wow. That garen just mechanically outplayed me. No. It’s either he wins because of his kit auto winning the matchup. Or he gets hard stomped.
Light Burner1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3jwZjJjZ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T20:56:52.520+0000)
Is it wrong? Would you say yi is good design? “Me right click after 25 minute. Me win!”
Is that a complaint about adcs?
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3jwZjJjZ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T21:00:45.024+0000)
Is that a complaint about adcs?
Adc has to worry about positioning and dodging cc to not be instant killed. Yi just has to run at them with his ult on and a qss ready.
Not to mention they don’t get to afk farm with no contest. So they are constantly dueling with someone that isn’t a npc.
Light Burner1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3jwZjJjZ,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T21:02:20.354+0000)
Adc has to worry about positioning and dodging cc to not be instant killed. Yi just has to run at them with his ult on and a qss ready.
Not to mention they don’t get to afk farm with no contest. So they are constantly dueling with someone that isn’t a npc.
So its a yi complaint? Im trying to find out what you're complaining about
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3jwZjJjZ,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-05T21:08:30.949+0000)
So its a yi complaint? Im trying to find out what you're complaining about
Yi was an example. Riot keeps putting shit into kits to counter their own counterplay.
Fiora is a perfect example of this. Oh. You randomly get marked. And if she hits the mark she heals get a shit ton of ms and deals a fuck load of damage.
Natural response. Okay. I’ll just keep that side away from her.
Riots response. Oh. She gets a dash and a ms steroid so she can easily hit it.
It was just a question. I personaly think that game needs few of these for new players.
“Me right click after 25 minute. Me win!”
I'm getting adc vibes.
The thigh guy1 votesIt was just a question. I personaly think that game needs few of these for new players.
I'm getting adc vibes.
Previous reply.
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