The Problem with armorpen

Spoofghoul··6 votes·504 views

Is that you don't give up anything for it

There isn't a trade off in these items

With defense there are always trade offs, does it give health? does it give sustain? or is it a flat pile of armor

With armorpen you get the ad and a bunch of other stuff on top of it in addition to the armorpen

If i want to buy defense vs physical damage i grab armor but then armorpen gets bough in return and my armor doesn't do anything anymore whilst their damage increases on top of it

What if last whisper gave attackspeed What if youmou's gave more cdr and less ad or perhaps movepseed and less ad What if black cleaver gave extra base ad like steraks

Armorpen items are universally good at all stages of the game vs anything and you have 0 trade off in AD or Utility from buying them

These are items made to counter a physical damage counter so the one thing we have to defend vs physical damage has a counter and it gives a buch of the stat we wanted to counter in the first place

There should at least be trade offs

Magic pen has some of the same issues but its less of a problem because magic damage is often applied in a burst and not in dps

11 Comments

Astôlfo4 votes

The trade off is flat armor pen is only good against squishies. Percent armor pen is good pretty much against tanks.

Items with flat armor pen have very low said flat armor pen (10 or so). Items with large % armor pen have lower AD than most AD items.

Also, the tradeoff is that the ones buying said items are the damage dealers, not the tanks. By not buying anything that'd help with survivability (GA, Sterak's, Mercurial, Maw, etc etc), they're trading away survivability as well.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

also the trade off of % arpen is that it needs to be stacked.

Ralanr2 votes

The trade off is that it's supposed to be less AD than getting a flat AD item. At least imo.

Spoofghoul1 votes

but not significantly and this is why when i grab chainvest for example the pen item always wins out over the flat ad item however in the case of flat pen it also wins out over flat ad vs non armorered targets most of the time

I just don't feel like there are any trade offs to grabbing armorpen at all

wheter its LDR giving even more damage to high health targets or Mortals ability to minimize sustain On top of giving 50! ad

It's just a 1 stop shop to invalidate any sort of defense someone spend an entire game building up

Bonus damage to high health targets and grievous wounds should imho be placed on different items for example AD + AS items because we kind of lack those options currently Armorpen in and of itself is already extremely valuable since you get to cut down gold and slot efficiency on on your opponents items

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

lord dominks kind of says fuck all that. am giving you more ad damage. and more armor pen than anything.

GamblerOfLives2 votes

it's flat armor pen..you still need last whisper vs tanks

catastrophicSkil1 votes

i understand the problem but then you would make armor OP and everyone would just build resistances and those champs with highest base damages would become the strong ones at least this is what i'm reading

Also once tank meta declines more and assassins become more common which will eventually happen again maybe after the reworks building Armpen will probably become worse than building straight damage items just a guess though i could be wrong

WoonStruck1 votes

It was never an issue before every AD champ and their mother was buying Youmuu's, Black Cleaver, Duskblade, etc.

Armor would in no way be OP in general. Tabi would just have to be nerfed back to 10% again.

Armor's cost efficiency, amount, and the formula were all gutted since season 1/2, and they weren't considered OP then. It was passives, actives, and HP regen that were over-tuned for the most part.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

{quoted}

i understand the problem but then you would make armor OP and everyone would just build resistances and those champs with highest base damages would become the strong ones at least this is what i'm reading

Also once tank meta declines more and assassins become more common which will eventually happen again maybe after the reworks building Armpen will probably become worse than building straight damage items just a guess though i could be wrong

but its not a tank meta, its an dps meta, and to kill the dps they are reworking the assassins but in doing so that will make tanks more viable again. tanks dont beat dps tanks be burst, burst beats dps and dps beats tanks.

Vekkna1 votes

Honestly, I don't think finished pen items are a problem as much as the early pen on Serrated Dirk > finish item > second Dirk.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

You would have a point if there was an item with Armor pen and crit on it. But there isn't anymore. So yes, you do give up something for it, particularly on adcs. Maybe not enough, perhaps, but there are tradeoffs.

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