I understand you want to win the laning phase and do some damage, but realize that you are giving up on utility, which is more useful in the late game as it multiplies team power. Also, build that sightstone to ward because you WILL get ganked to hell and back because you are squishy and don't build defense. Also, a mage "support" is more vulnerable to assassins and dive fighters than a utility support.
Big Lincoln7 votesno utility?
aoe silence, point and click suppression
AoE root, AoE knockup and zoning power
AoE murder
i'm not seeing it.
JamesTheMage171 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3aefAzkF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-02-02T17:49:27.913+0000)
no utility?
i'm not seeing it.
AoE murder lol.
TyrekGoldenspear1 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3aefAzkF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-02-02T17:49:27.913+0000)
no utility?
i'm not seeing it.
Ah, AOE murder, the best kind.
chipndip16 votesHere's what you don't get. Hell, here's what NO ONE gets: Who fucking cares about defensive utility (Not literally, so don't insta-downvote me. Follow me on this.)? The real point of supports outside of all the side jobs we layer the job description with to make it sound all big and important is to be strong early so you can help your carry, who's gonna need to scale, get a good head start into scaling faster while you steadily fall off. If you do that, you did your primary job.
Now, follow me here. Remember when 
utility was actually really potent early
? Yeah, that got nerfed because EVERYONE HATED IT. Because of this, supports in the traditional sense aren't as strong early anymore, so people are turning to mages with strong bases to do the support job, because the REAL support job is to be strong early to help someone, that's usually pretty weak early, get strong faster. Whether I'm doing that by making sure you don't die ever or I'm doing that by making sure the enemy doesn't live longer than 2 minutes in the lane is up to me, but if my carry scales in harder and faster than their carry, that's the main concern. If we want mages to not be played as supports, something has to be done about traditional picks so they can be stronger early without people hating their play patterns. Now, be honest, would you REALLY want traditional supports to be stronger in lane, given their usually non-interactive play styles? If so, the solution's simple.
sobi9991 votesI agree, I main soraka and her early game healing sucks and the adc has no choice but to farm safely. The items do help these traditional supp but their base healing/shielding is too low early game.
chipndip11 votesBut will people actually appreciate a strong Soraka, given what her play style is (hang in bushes/fow and spam W)?
sobi9991 votesI don't think so as well but then they shouldn't complain about burst mages as well. As far as i know people also hate janna spamming shields as well because that doesn't cost her self health sacrifice and only mana. People complain about leona stunning them for ages. Moaning will always be there but what does the majority prefer? Burst mage or utility supp? I would say mid is 90% of the time Burst mage and 1 of them is more than enough in a team.
chipndip11 votesUnfortunately, that's the wrong answer, and for a few reasons:
These mages fight you. Balancing them into the role offers, surprisingly, healthier gameplay when they're strong instead of someone spamming big ass sustain from a spot you can't reach without playing stupid. Even if getting chunked feels worse, the gameplay itself is better from a design standpoint. Think of it like this: Do people appreciate a good Bard landing Q stuns, roaming around for chimes, and landing his ult, or do people like seeing Janna break her E button? Interactivity offers healthier gameplay, and the mages, surprisingly, offer more of that than at least the majority of enchanters.
You guys keep acting like taking damage from a support is the devil's trademark or some shit. Man up, already. If the classic supports weren't so impotent, we wouldn't need these mage ones right now. Some classic supports, like Sona and Lulu, were designed around the notion that they were decent offense/defense pivots, and back from versions ago they had more damage, not less, in their kits. What happened? It got nerfed. We're denying the identity of some of these champions with this mindset, and NO ONE CARES. People are more than ready to whine about the ramifications of that, though.
It doesn't matter how many people are damage dealers or not. I'd love to say that we really only need two carries on the team, but my jg's still gonna pick Lee with my top lane picking Riven or Yasuo. Why is it that people think they have to literally force support into being what they want it to be for them, but our top laners and junglers won't do the same? In actuality, you pick what should work, and what works is getting that early lead for your late-game carry. If killing the enemy 5 times does that more than keeping my carry alive through 5 all-ins, I'm picking the former. THAT'S how it is.
SasoriAkasuna3 votesWhat late game? Games end between 20-25 minutes in this meta.
Maximum Morde1 votesCool story, but how about you worry bout yourself and I'll worry about me.
Aquafuge1 votesthen that's not really a SUPPORT role is it? Or is it the definition of support is unclear at this time? All the mage support ( and i use the term loosely ) I have seen are not supports, they claim to be support but cs, try to farm kills ( I've even seen mage supports hold off a skill shot to last hit a kill their carry was just securing ), and complain about no vision . If you are claiming to be a support then be a support, that means you make choices to benefit your team, not your k/d/a, get a sightstone , clear wards, and try to help your carry secure kills, only time a support should be taking a kill is if it's to save their carry or to finish the one that got away.
Maximum Morde1 votesonly time a support should be taking a kill is if it's to save their carry or to finish the one that got away.
That is pure opinion(and an often incorrect one). Every match is different.
Aquafuge1 votesIf the support is intentionally KSing their carry are they really a support? If a mage wants to go be a mage in bot lane fine just don't blow smoke up the teams A** about and say support.
Lauchmelder1 votesKSing in a way you mean it doesn't exist in a team based game.
Aquafuge1 votesbut is it not the supports job to try and get a carry ahead early, an adc should be able to out damage a true support unfortunately too many mage supports are there just to act as a carry and as such it just hurts the team because trying to build 2 carries in the same lane means both are only 1/2 as strong as they could be.
Lauchmelder1 votesIf you'd tell that to me ingame I would go an support top and mid.
A support is not a babysitter for his ADC. If I take the first 3 kills in lane I have better chances to defend said ADC.
The support is a support for his team. I actually encourage leaving the toxic crybabies down there in a 1v2 lane while getting the other 2/3 players ahead.
Aquafuge1 votesI agree a Support should support the entire team and part of that is sacrificing getting kills to make their carry as strong as possible, as opposed to 2 carries trying to power up in the same lane. If you have 2 carries trying to power up in the same lane and i'm running a typical support/carry meta, my carry will always be that much stronger then either of yours and most likely then both by mid game which is where most games are ending, so offensive mage supports don't really help a team, if they want to carry in bot as a mage fine, but be honest about it so they can maybe get a proper support that will actually support their rise to power and not hinder it
Lauchmelder1 votesThere's no difference in power between 2 carries with half the damage output and 1 carry with the full damage output.
Aquafuge1 votesbut there is a difference in itemization, a carry that can reach their full build in 1/2 the time will snowball faster then 2 that take twice as long, and if the one carry starts snowballing earlier the 2 may never get the chance.
RogueWill1 votesthen that's not really a SUPPORT role is it? Or is it the definition of support is unclear at this time? All the mage support ( and i use the term loosely ) I have seen are not supports, they claim to be support but cs, try to farm kills ( I've even seen mage supports hold off a skill shot to last hit a kill their carry was just securing ), and complain about no vision . If you are claiming to be a support then be a support, that means you make choices to benefit your team, not your k/d/a, get a sightstone , clear wards, and try to help your carry secure kills, only time a support should be taking a kill is if it's to save their carry or to finish the one that got away.
Farming kills is not completely bad (in fact is probably good on a damage based support). Is not like you aren't gaining anything from it, you get assist gold and around 2 waves of minions as and advantage. That is a pretty solid lead, the extra 150g won't make much difference to you but it will do wonders on your support.
Aquafuge1 votesthe reference i was making to csing wasn't waiting for the carry to get ahead, the support started with doran's ring, and jumped in on last hitting right from the word go, the adc up and quit and we lost as a result, I'm fine if players want to go APC bot lane, but just be honest about and be willing to accept if your team vetos the choice.
JamesTheMage171 votes
AoE knockback, AoE slow, AoE stun
AoE stun, AoE slow, another AoE slow, frikking wall that cuts off movement
AoE knockback, AoE slow (that also scares enemies off)
AoE and DoT stun that effects EVERYONE, multiple other ways to stun
AoE slow, AoE knockup, team damage amplifier, built in tankiness
Shonjl1 votesThe funny thing is they aren't giving up utility. Common mage supports like Malz, Annie, and Brand have CC in their kit so they still are useful in that aspect. But unlike things like Braum, they deal damage so something to be feared. The best CC is death after all. Braum may be annoying, but when his ADC instantly burst, he is worthless punching bag. Also since there is 2 damage dealers, he can't do his job since he can only all in 1 person.
There is no reason to not pick Mage supports right now.
