Yo riot, when the fuck are you nerfing lucian?
He has been dominating botlane ever since patch 8.11, and you even buffed him in 8.18 to try to get him into words 2018, and you didn't nerf him after worlds was finished.
52 Comments
Salamencę26 votes-3 ad
The Trent7 votes-3 ad
to be fair... nerfs like this literally pushed a dominant jungler like Graves into barely playable. You shouldn't underestimate something like that lol. Lucian's slightly higher base stats are what make him playable. It's not like he has 20 more attack damage than other adcs.
Neptunia xoxo20 votes[{quoted}](name=The Trent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3aUo0H8U,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-01-28T01:29:05.406+0000)
to be fair... nerfs like this literally pushed a dominant jungler like Graves into barely playable. You shouldn't underestimate something like that lol. Lucian's slightly higher base stats are what make him playable. It's not like he has 20 more attack damage than other adcs.
The actual fuck am I reading rn
Nevrankroaton2 votesGraves lost more than 1% WR with this nerf. So it wasn't a shitty nerf by any means but board like big numbers and big stuff.
DeusVult1 votesGraves lost slightly more than 1% win rate but maintained a high play rate. The 3 AD loss hurt his early clear, but only by about 3-4 seconds on a full clear. And given that Graves is a monster in the jungle and has been since his rework, and that is why you see the 3 AD memes.
Meanwhile less played champs will get hit with huge nerfs and almost never be seen again, despite rocking a less than 5% play rate
Elphrihaim2 votes[{quoted}](name=Neptunia xoxo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3aUo0H8U,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-28T05:08:08.230+0000)
The actual fuck am I reading rn
A misleading piece of information established from lack of understanding of a character innate.
(Graves's Base AD going down by 3 means, due to New Destiny, that his basic attacks deal 4.2 less damage at level 1 and 6 less damage at level 18, and his Critical Strikes deal 7.8 to 11.2 less damage respectively. Is it still a comparatively small nerf? Yes, but it can easily add up.)
GayFluffyUnicorn4 votesBarely unplayable lululul.
Just as a reminder graves got: base hp buffed, W got a massive 90% slow, more E resistance, ult CD buff.
But it's fine, he lost 3 AD and that took some % of his winrate.
This is basically the opposite of balanced but whatever i'm going to explain this to you with my favorite example: Nocturne got his fear duration and ult blackout duration buffed, made him super broken AND obnoxious to play against. Ofc riot nerfed everything EXCEPT those things, yes numbers wise he seems "balanced" apart from that he is still super obnoxious and cancerous to play against BECAUSE of these buffs and the nerfs shockingly did not adress this.
Same as basically every single nasus buff did not make him better as a champion but more miserable to fight against. The lifesteal buffs were the most obnoxious ones where you are now barely able to actually push him out of lane. Ult Q buff and ult resistance buff just made him have accelerated scaling. Super obnoxious ticking time bomb you have to play against. Still a shit champ noone cares about.
Dr Dog1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Trent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3aUo0H8U,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-01-28T01:29:05.406+0000)
to be fair... nerfs like this literally pushed a dominant jungler like Graves into barely playable. You shouldn't underestimate something like that lol. Lucian's slightly higher base stats are what make him playable. It's not like he has 20 more attack damage than other adcs.
graves wasnt unplayable his winrate dropped temporarily but thats it, he was THE number one jger up until this match actually, well tied with kha for number 1 i mean
Javi Is Here16 votesI know -5 ms
TsunamiSS16 votesMaybe I'm biased, Lucian main here, but I don't get why people can't see that Lucian is a symptom of a larger problem; the larger problem being outsized damage everywhere. Lucian provides me, the adc, a reliable way to:
- Evade a gank by a jungler that has literally been camping my lane for 1.5 minutes
- Evade mage "supports" that can spam high damage abilities and make it otherwise impossible to lane
- Evade hook "supports" that chunk me to 1/4th health with one rotation if I misplay
This is also why, I'm assuming, Ezreal is a good high elo pick as well (in addition to his insane damage output proccing his W).
To put it another way, look at the ADCs that are suffering. All of the "stand still and right-click" ADCs are all in the gutter due to the incredible mobility and damage creep that we are currently seeing. They have no time to scale (~3 items) whereas the mobile ones such as Kai'sa, Lucian, Ezreal, Vayne, all have an impact with 1 to 2 items and can bully the opponent ADC.
Does Lucian need a damage nerf? Sure, I can agree there, but that nerf should be in conjunction with a larger damage nerf, not just to him.
Z3Sleeper2 votesYup pretty much this. Self-reliance is a thing most ADCs don't have and the reason why those ADCs are underperforming in this meta.
Combine self-reliance with an itemization path that isn't gutted to oblivion and you have your better high elo ADCs for this meta.
Even Vayne is skipping on early crit and going for on-hit. Ashe is actually doing fairly well too since she's a pretty safe champion and rushes BotRk.
LTK KoRo5 votesI'd say that it's good that "stand still and right-click" ADCs are bad while ADCs which don't feel miserable to play against (outside of Vayne) are strong.
Seriously, i'd play everyday vs Ezreal/Lucian/Draven/MF rather than Vayne/Tristana/Sivir, being forced to end game in 25-30 minutes just because enemy ADC is the ultimate win condition after this time is silly and outdated design. Teams should play like a team, not like ADCs+4 slaves (like it was pre 8.11)
HàrrowR2 votesDon't know why you're getting down voted for speaking your mind, and you're right, half the adc rooster is unplayable unless you happen to have a good support + paired against old gen champions that don't have 10 dashes and an execute in their kit that will do 50% of your hp.
I mean i still love champs like Jinx,Cait,Twitch, but going up against Akali,Zed,Sylas,Yas,Viktor etc. it feels so horrible, at least as you say Lucian can E out of the way, Jinx throws out her E and watches zed ping his mastery emote while he dashes over it
CorruptedScythe8 votesRito wants all the adcs to be as strong as Lucian. So.. never. He's supposedly the baseline ADC. It's shitty, but that's what they said.
Karfuss6 votesRito wants all the adcs to be as strong as Lucian. So.. never. He's supposedly the baseline ADC. It's shitty, but that's what they said.
Riot wasn't referring to Lucian's strength, they were referring to his design.
Thematically, Lucian IS a fantastic ADC. As is Jhin for that matter. They don't rely on crit percentage RNG, and their damage is high yet consistent and predictable. They're both choreographed (Jhin's 4th shot mechanic and Lucian's double tap), and they don't rely turning their pistols into ridiculous gatling guns.
They are designed in a way that ALL ADCs should be designed. Not all stacking crit and attack speed to become different flavours of ranged burst cannons.
Now Lucian is overtuned because his passive hitting twice in quick succession, applying on hit, is allowing him to abuse the hell out of BOTRK while even building items like Black Cleaver and Frozen Mallet. The latter most certainly was never intended. He needs on-hit and the ability to crit removing from his passive, while increasing the AD scaling of it by 10% (from 55/60/65% at level 1, 7 and 13 respectively to 65/70/75%) and perhaps giving him a slight boost to auto-attack range to be more in line with everyone else as a compensation buff.
Votable Jester4 votes{quoted} and they don't rely turning their pistols into ridiculous gatling guns.
presses r
Just was a little funny, your point still stands of course.
DerPunkt1 votesWas just about to say this
HàrrowR1 votesHonestly Lucian and Vayne are my most played champions and i do think that they're the way that ADCs should be, especially in an era of pyke/brand/zyra supports where no one gives 2 shits about protecting you.
Their kits have everything an ADC needs, mobility, damage, Lucian has burst, Vayne has CC etc.
Its no wonder why they're so popular, they just deal a lot of damage while being mobile and hard to kill, comparing them to Cait for example, and i played tones of games and tested it out in practice tool aswell, you literally can't top Lucians damage even if you spammed your traps on the dummy, and thats Lucian without BOTRK, nevermind that Lucian also has lifesteal hp and damage reduction when he goes 
.
The other good Marksmen archetype for me would be Ashe, but i feel like current itemization doesn't allow her to do the damage needed, she has CC and Utility, but lacks damage
Fîedler7 votesThe SJW departement at rito will never touch this black champion.
saltran1 votesYeah not like they gutted him whe he was meta on midlane for 2 patchs.
rabirinsu5 votesThey won't. He's black. If you nerf black champion it's racism.
Minimac20003 votesPlz buff klepto annie
SanKakU1 votesAnnie isn't mana hungry why not just take Grasp instead? Or be normal and take Comet/Electrocute.
Minimac20001 votesOmg. Twas a joke. Read the poster's name
saltran1 votes9.3
Chief Mayonnaise1 votesThey're not planning on nerfing him, they're planning to bring other bot laners to his power level.
Wild Geese1 votesNext patch crit is improved so, next patch.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesThe crit rework is coming soon.
It will rework Essence Reaver, so perhaps Lucian will be taken down a peg.
Daddy Ants1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3aUo0H8U,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-01-28T07:20:17.782+0000)
The crit rework is coming soon.
It will rework Essence Reaver, so perhaps Lucian will be taken down a peg.
Lucian will benefit from that ER heavily.
What is one of Lucian's weaknesses? Mana usage.
What does Essence Reaver return? Mana
He'll get 3% missing mana back every time he uses his double shot.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesLucian will benefit from that ER heavily.
What is one of Lucian's weaknesses? Mana usage.
What does Essence Reaver return? Mana
He'll get 3% missing mana back every time he uses his double shot.
It gives him less AD.
It no longer gives flat mana.
And he loses the Essence Flare passive, which is the part he abuses the most if I recall correctly.
That should do at least something.
Daddy Ants1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3aUo0H8U,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2019-01-28T14:38:20.017+0000)
It gives him less AD.
It no longer gives flat mana.
And he loses the Essence Flare passive, which is the part he abuses the most if I recall correctly.
That should do at least something.
Yeah it'll do something but it won't knock him off the top.
Caitlyn and Tristana getting stronger will help also.
Nevrankroaton1 votesBuff the rest so they can compete with him/scale better early and then let's see if lucian is truly the huge problem everyone talk about.
Brambleback1 votesWhen are they nerfing 
though... this champion turns games and then becomes unstoppable.
HàrrowR1 votesWait what, you actually think Jinx is strong
Brambleback1 votesyes. [slayer-jinx-unamused]
Daddy Ants1 votesWait what, you actually think Jinx is strong
In gold and below, sure.
Naon1 votesSo... I'm just waiting for the day riot makes a champ that has a 1hit ko on their Q W E R because lets be honest. League of 1shot is getting boring really quick. It's like an achievement if you survive 3 hits, can't wait to see the buff they are giving the other adcs. Going to be so fun to see them buff this class, then buff assassins again to compensate, rinse and repeat. Honestly, can our next champ just be called "Sir 1shot" and he just insta kills anyone who crosses his path. Come on riot youre getting close as it is. Make sure to add on 1-2 passives per skill as well and also make his base passive something like infinite dashes. No one deserves to survive in this game.
GodlyBane1 votesCould you imagine if a non burst champion kills you with an e auto q auto attack? Yea me neither
HàrrowR1 votesLucian IS a burst champ, that's why he falls of late game when he can't kill tankier enemies as quickly as Tristana for example
200220121 votesFirst we need to see what the new crit changes will do, then adjust ADs accordingly
Thefrostyviking1 votesOP i have a question.
Since you find Lucian to be OP, do you also find Thresh to be OP?
Peel for my ADC1 votesAs a support player I'm glad he's meta , he's not broken by any means just a great early AD that falls off late . If you hate him so much ban him , hes not that hard to survive in lane
Daddy Ants1 votes[{quoted}](name=Peel for my ADC,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3aUo0H8U,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2019-01-28T16:25:50.857+0000)
As a support player I'm glad he's meta , he's not broken by any means just a great early AD that falls off late . If you hate him so much ban him , hes not that hard to survive in lane
He doesn't fall off anywhere near as hard as he used to, none of the early game ADC's drop off that hard anymore.
Exceptions are Ezreal, Kalista and maybe Draven.
Before you reply with "BUT TANKS ARE TANKY LATE GAME, HE CAN'T KILL TANKS"
He can.
are in his core build.
Nightblue3gg1 votesProblem with him is that he is the only good adc.Hes not OP, the rest are just traash
JohnnyNeverSins1 votesGotta thank that pathetic skin his buffs came with,they'll nerf him eventually,after he has fucked every single fucking ranked game and steals your LP.
ShakeNBakeUK1 votes[{quoted}](name=Klepto annie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3aUo0H8U,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-01-27T20:29:36.598+0000)
He has been dominating botlane ever since patch 8.11, and you even buffed him in 8.18 to try to get him into words 2018, and you didn't nerf him after worlds was finished.
more like when are they buffing the rest of the ADC lineup to be at Lucian's level amirite
Sex With Annie1 voteswhere is this elo where lucian is just stomping everyone so hard they go to boards to complain about a 50% wr champion?
Daddy Ants1 votes[{quoted}](name=Jhin Wíck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3aUo0H8U,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2019-01-28T22:00:48.866+0000)
where is this elo where lucian is just stomping everyone so hard they go to boards to complain about a 50% wr champion?
50%?
He's 52% on most of the reputable stats sites.
No I don't mean champion.gg, That site is a joke.
Frog goes moo1 votesthey actually announced they are nerfing him in 9.3. Him and ezreal.
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