@RiotStaikk on Riot Ghostcrawler's recent Twitch Q&A

SteelMankind·Feb 17, 2017·5 votes·2,651 views

Towards the very end, Ghostcrawler mentioned that skirmishers are "juggernauts with less armor" in response to the question,"Why is Ekko considered a skimisher and not an assassin?"

My understanding of the skirmisher class was that they're light, melee fighters with excellent sustained damage and combat mobility. I don't really see what they have in common with raid-boss juggernauts at all.

Does this mean that, internally, Riot is not in agreement on champion classes? Because his definition seems very different from yours.

13 Comments

RiotGhostcrawlerFeb 17, 20176 votes

I'm not sure if Statikk will respond, but here is my thought process.

We used to just have "Fighters" in League, which was mostly just a loose association of melee dudes. For awhile, we made an internal distinction between "light fighters" and "fighters." The light fighter idea evolved into Skirmishers.

Juggernauts have high sustained damage, short range, and are not squishy. Think Nasus or Garen.

Skirmishers have high sustained damage. short range, and are squishy. Think Tryndamare or Fiora.

You can argue that Juggernauts have lower mobility and target access, which I think is legit, but I still think squishiness is the main differentiator.

We also feel like we understand Juggernauts better than Skirmishers since we haven't done a Skirmisher update yet.

In terms of Ekko, whether a champ does more burst or sustained damage helps to determine whether they're an Assassin or a Skirmisher. I feel Ekko uses burst windows, but that does depend on how you build him. Assassins also have more target access that Skirmishers, but that's even more nuanced.

Hope that helps.

TyrekGoldenspearFeb 17, 20171 votes

Thanks for the answer. Is there a way for us to see previous Q&As that we missed?

SteelMankindFeb 17, 20171 votes

Twitch VODs

SpideraxeFeb 17, 20171 votes

Do you feel anything is problematic regarding the skirmisher class at the moment for when you do do an eventual Skirmisher update

AhristocatsFeb 17, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Assassins also have more target access that Skirmishers, but that's even more nuanced.

which makes me+other high elo players wonder why yasuo can teleport from 1300 range on targets

don't get me wrong, yasuo isn't op but i just wonder why in his design he's allowed to ulti on allied knock ups

SteelMankindFeb 17, 20171 votes

That does help alot, thank you for taking the time to answer my question.

I suppose Ekko is a skimisher in a similar vein as Riven in that both have sustained damage thats CD gated - their "right click you to death" prowess is lower than Mr. Yi's or Tryndamere's. Ekko does have a ranged basic ability, however.

Ekko ult is certainly an assassin tool if used solely as an escape button a la Zed or LeBlanc, but using it to its fullest capabilities (waiting until youve lost some health, dodging CC, using it for damage) is more in line with a skirmisher ability. The movespeed bonus from Ekko passive proc, the W shield/stun delay, as well as the W execute passive also makes more sense to me on a skirmisher's kit than an assassin's.

Variks the LoyalFeb 17, 20177 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure if Statikk will respond, but here is my thought process.

We used to just have "Fighters" in League, which was mostly just a loose association of melee dudes. For awhile, we made an internal distinction between "light fighters" and "fighters." The light fighter idea evolved into Skirmishers.

Juggernauts have high sustained damage, short range, and are not squishy. Think Nasus or Garen.

Skirmishers have high sustained damage. short range, and are squishy. Think Tryndamare or Fiora.

You can argue that Juggernauts have lower mobility and target access, which I think is legit, but I still think squishiness is the main differentiator.

I'd argue that they're more different than that. Skirmishers are typically significantly less kitable than Juggernauts; Skirmishers like Riven and Fiora have plenty of dashes and movement buffs to keep up with people.

Skirmishers also have, what I'd call 'clever durability.' Instead of being tanky up front, they're 'tanky' through unique and special use of their abilities. Fiora cancels damage with her parry. Yasuo blocks damage with his Wind Wall. Master Yi denies damage through Meditation. Tryndamere refuses to die. Etc.

AmazoXFeb 17, 20171 votes

Back in Season 6, A Riot Employee stated that Skirmishers are those who have sustained damage with Strong defensive tool(s) E.G Ekko Chronobreak & Parallel Convergence. Yasuo Wind Wall & Way of the Wanderer. Fiora Parry & Healing from Grand Challenge. Mastery Yi Alpha Strike & Meditate. Riven Valor & Ki burst. Tryndamere Undying Rage.

Sexy Jack RabbitFeb 18, 20171 votes

Tryndamere also has his on-demand healing with W, and I would argue Fiora's second survivability feature would be her passive lifesteal, her ultimate does heal her, but it's more situational.

AmazoXFeb 18, 20171 votes

Fiora's healing is only applied to herself If the player chooses to go aggressive so but hey It counts towards sustain & a bit of defense so I suppose you are right.

Jeddy017Feb 17, 20171 votes

Do you think that one day, Skirmishers will get their own class update that will help more defined the class? Skirmishers often feel like they're either assassins or divers, especially to those who don't know about the updated class system.

Stars ShaperFeb 17, 20171 votes

I think that the feeling of "squishiness" is usually not viewed as a mere matter of stats but also about "kill opportunities" that said characters have.

Let me clarify... While of course being tanky, Garen & Nasus can be easily killed once any1 start the kiting or gets a good shut down on them while Ekko can just R back or use his shield for an AoE stun or even Zhonya and get away from trouble. So the matter of being squishy also takes in account the chances you have to kill said target.

Hexs FortuneJun 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure if Statikk will respond, but here is my thought process.

We used to just have "Fighters" in League, which was mostly just a loose association of melee dudes. For awhile, we made an internal distinction between "light fighters" and "fighters." The light fighter idea evolved into Skirmishers.

Juggernauts have high sustained damage, short range, and are not squishy. Think Nasus or Garen.

Skirmishers have high sustained damage. short range, and are squishy. Think Tryndamare or Fiora.

You can argue that Juggernauts have lower mobility and target access, which I think is legit, but I still think squishiness is the main differentiator.

We also feel like we understand Juggernauts better than Skirmishers since we haven't done a Skirmisher update yet.

In terms of Ekko, whether a champ does more burst or sustained damage helps to determine whether they're an Assassin or a Skirmisher. I feel Ekko uses burst windows, but that does depend on how you build him. Assassins also have more target access that Skirmishers, but that's even more nuanced.

Hope that helps.

We need a skirmisher update. They are currently above and beyond their stated weaknesses and strengths