@Riot Keep this in mind when making the new champion

Mannny··9 votes·813 views

Please think:

"Does this champion need everything that I want it to have in its kit in order to be viable?"

"Will the things I want in it's kit make it a generalist pick over other champions?"

"If I want this to be in it's kit, will it become too strong?"

Honestly I'm tired of champions like Yasuo who provide everything and a bag of chips into the game. Please Riot think before you add. Your new champion could break the game.

19 Comments

Sexy Jack Rabbit4 votes

I'd really like to see another simple champion released. Every champion nowaday has a bible for a passive.

Frightning2 votes

As much as people complain about Yasuo, he's not actually that strong right now. His win rate is <50% in every elo, and he's rarely if ever played in competitive. I think the biggest issue with Yasuo is actually clarity...for his opponent. Unless you really understand how he works and how to counterplay that, he will smash you. But...if you do...then he's not even hard to beat. (Feel free to pick whatever champ I own (~110 atm) and have me 1v1 a Yasuo, I will probably win that lane.)

To the more general point you are on about: Riot does have a bad habit of overloading kits on new champs (and also overtuning them), especially mobile/high damage champs. I'm not sure how much of that is power creep, versus how much of that is a deliberate attempt to shift the power balance of the game from where it was to some new goal (I am intrigued by the latter possibility, the game could be heading to a very interesting place if it's the latter). If any, riot has been getting better with new champion designs than they were with old ones (cough release Graves/Darius, Talon/Xin Zhao, Vayne+Alistar rework (Season 1), etc.)

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

As much as people complain about Yasuo, he's not actually that strong right now. His win rate is <50% in every elo, and he's rarely if ever played in competitive. I think the biggest issue with Yasuo is actually clarity...for his opponent. Unless you really understand how he works and how to counterplay that, he will smash you. But...if you do...then he's not even hard to beat. (Feel free to pick whatever champ I own (~110 atm) and have me 1v1 a Yasuo, I will probably win that lane.)

To the more general point you are on about: Riot does have a bad habit of overloading kits on new champs (and also overtuning them), especially mobile/high damage champs. I'm not sure how much of that is power creep, versus how much of that is a deliberate attempt to shift the power balance of the game from where it was to some new goal (I am intrigued by the latter possibility, the game could be heading to a very interesting place if it's the latter). If any, riot has been getting better with new champion designs than they were with old ones (cough release Graves/Darius, Talon/Xin Zhao, Vayne+Alistar rework (Season 1), etc.)

Its not about his winrate. He's one of the most frustrating opponents in the game.

Frightning1 votes

Getting outplayed by a mechanically complex champion will always be a frustrating experience. There's no changing that.

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

Getting outplayed by a mechanically complex champion will always be a frustrating experience. There's no changing that.

He's not mechanically complex.

Frightning1 votes

Then who is? Because I can't think of very many other champions that have as many ways to approach a situation as he does. I would think that that would be the most reasonable measure of mechanical complexity (note: there is an important difference between mechanical complexity and difficulty to play, Yasuo, while very difficult to master, is not quite so hard to play successfully).

Anhartamin2 votes

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Mannny2 votes

True, a better example would have been Camille but oh well.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

She really doesn't have poke but yeah, she has more than yas.

At least until her latest nerfs ship.

Rosenwyn1 votes

As much as I hate dealing with stuff like release Ekko (why was this unleashed upon us) I think sometimes people focus on making really flashy champions. And it makes sense - who wouldn't love to see a champion they helped develop being loved, popular, and also seen in competitive play by the best players the world has to offer? We've been having a lot of %health damage, %damage reduction, and #-hit passives along with in general overloaded kits... so it tends to go poorly as far as balance goes. Oftentimes they become overwhelmingly powerful. I think what... Taliyah was pretty much the only champion on release that wasn't horrendously overpowered? It can be difficult to create champions with completely new kits that aren't anything like what we have already (since there is so many champions released already), but I think there is a balance between quality and quantity that needs to be strived for.

I think the general aesthetic for a lot of champions (new and reworked) has been great, though - so there is some positive things in the mix. But I think part of the issue is when a champion is assigned either a really gold efficient passive (eg crit is a very expensive stat and Yasuo gets an extra 50% so basically items, effecting primarily a totally different class altogether, has to be balanced around one champion) or basically a "free item" (eg Malzahar passive) tends to create difficult balancing situations. It's unfortunate it can cause such an unhealthy game state, especially for the people who honestly find themselves so drawn to a particular champion (be it aesthetic, general kit, etc) who just want to play them.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

i want a permanently flying champion that doesnt have wall collision or unit collision. i dont care if you refuse to give him any and all abilities except that 1 passive.

Skias1 votes

No max health % damage, armor pen or true damage, goddamn it.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

yasuo does in fact need everything he has in his kit. yes, camille would have been a better example.

shes like a diver and skirmisher in one. she has a kit like a sqsuishy skirmisher and the base stats and a defensive steroid like a bruiser.

Mannny1 votes

A worthless shield he gains from simply walking is not something he "needs".

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

A worthless shield he gains from simply walking is not something he "needs".

he needs it to deal with ranged damage and poke. utilizing his shield and his shield reset properly.

the only real problem yasuo has is that his crit passive doesnt work out as well as intended. it makes him cap out on crit after 2 items which means beyond that he has no incentive to go for a squishy melee adc build over a bruiser items.

Mannny1 votes

Why does he need it to deal with ranged damage if ranged damage and poke are his only weak point? We've seen situations like this before, where Riot covers up the weak points of champions with huge strong points like Jhin who is not supposed to have high mobility for a reason, however, has massive bursts of speed all around his kit and has range of 2 screens away. It doesn't matter if he has no mobility if you won't ever see him shooting you. Same with yasuo, it doesn't matter if he has a weakness to long range if his passive gives him a free shield.

Erockandroll1 votes

I'm going to play devils advocate here, but asking Riot to think before overloading a champions kit, may be asking too much.

In part, it expects Riot to have an understanding of how players are going to use said champion. Which they won't know until after it's has been released. And in some cases (like with Azir) their power will go unnoticed because it's locked behind a multitude of Bugs.

Your also Asking Riot to have a way to objectively measure the weight of a particular mechanic. Take say, Kalista, who has a good kiting mechanic, a good duo lane mechanic with her support, and her rend mechanic gives her team a bump in neutral objective control. That is only like 3 perks in her play style, yet people have pointed to Kalista as Overloaded. (I don't think Riot thought it was on release.)

And yet, Riot seems to be alright with bringing them in on the strong side, as that actually gives them decent data on how players use them, and know how exactly to roll back the numbers.

The real issue with Champion kits, is more the skill curve that make a champ viable in one ELO and garbage in another.

Mannny1 votes

The situation can go both ways.

Overloading a champion can result in very bad cases, and cases that are too good. Azir is a great example of a bad case, and a case that is too good would be Camille who brings too much to the table. Overloaded champions tend to never do well in LoL and they always pose issues later on. Simple champions are easier to deal with and abide to the bigger player base anyways.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

The situation can go both ways.

Overloading a champion can result in very bad cases, and cases that are too good. Azir is a great example of a bad case, and a case that is too good would be Camille who brings too much to the table. Overloaded champions tend to never do well in LoL and they always pose issues later on. Simple champions are easier to deal with and abide to the bigger player base anyways.

While you have a point, their are potential problems with even a simplistic kit.

Part of it is that with a simpler kit, such a champion may become binary (not saying that even complex kits arn't) or potentially become stats checky. And if Riot finds it to be a balancing issue, they have fewer levers to work with. And it can be difficult to add new mechanics, without some level of art and coding.

Also, since we have so many champions as it is, it's becoming harder to make a simplistic kit, without it looking like a knockoff of another champion. And a lot of times, Riot may end up creating mechanics that are totally new and untested. Which could appear as overloaded, even if said champ was a standard passive, 3 abilities and an ult.

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