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The real problem with runes is the damage creep

Jefftiffy··33 votes·1,468 views

I literally can't build tank and live more than 1s in a 1v1 anymore. It's pretty damn sad.

Lethal tempo actually is the least offensive damage mastery because it doesn't get rid of any of the weaknesses of the champs that use it and I think should be the base power level of the other runes.

Press the attack literally just amps everyone's damage and adds burst. But it's in the precision tree? The burst shouldn't be there and the damage amp should be only on the person proccing it and maybe 10%.

I just saw Fleet Foot on Jhin and I literally couldn't catch him as Volibear with Q up and T2 boots and homeguard from base. He outran me and never slowed down even after my Q finished. Like wut? So even if I catch him he would just heal it back? Uh Riot? IDK maybe it's just a Jhin abuse case. Maybe lower his MS bonus on crits?

Kelptomancy. Not even an Ezreal problem here. It's broken in general for ranged champions. It should be about 40% less effective on ranged champs as it is pretty abusive even as a support. The other option is make the items that you steal not worth gold or at least as much, but I feel that would feel really bad on melee champs and wouldn't solve the problem. Yes this is damage creep as people get gold sooner and even get damage from it.

Arcane comet is stupid early on especially when combined with Scorch. Maybe make scorch's cd 30s that scales down to 20s at level 11 and remove the CDR on hits from comet as it already scales down on its own.

Celerity + any champ that loves MS is becoming pretty abusive like Hecarim. Literally I can almost one shot people with just trinity + youmous + E + ghost. They usually die to one Q + an AA after wards unless I snowball hard early. Maybe lower the damage to 6% from the current 8% bonus MS.

Predator for some reason refreshes when you upgrade your boots. That should be removed. Also probably should only add like 30-70 (currently 60-140 base) damage base to the first hit as the scaling is actually pretty good on it.

Electrocute's AD and AP ratios are insane and honestly should be halved. (I can get almost 600 damage out of the thing as mid game veigar or built AD assassin like wtf)

Dark harvest is hard to gauge with how fast games are ending.

And then there's gathering storm. The most useless rune in the set because the game is decided way before it actually becomes good. Just make the thing activate every 8 minutes instead. IDK about your opinion but 10 minutes for half a item 1036 (not even half of item 1052 ) is pretty fucking shit.

37 Comments

PokladnicaZla10 votes

RITO somehow thought that that making 3 offensive tree compared to the inferior resolve tree was a good idea. Hey,who doesn't like the games ending in 15 min? -___-

PhDs Nuts8 votes

Creep? These runes are a damage full sprint through a bunch of empty beer cans.

Red Wreckage3 votes

Gathering storm is really really really shit. I get 5 AD at 10 minutes. There are other runes that give 10% CDR or boots at that mark.

And tempo feels just useless compared to Press the attack, at least on melee champs for me. take 1.5s to get in effect, the other carry has already bursted you down with press the attack in that 1.5s.

Daddy Ants3 votes

{quoted}

And then there's gathering storm. The most useless rune in the set because the game is decided way before it actually becomes good. Just make the thing activate every 8 minutes instead. IDK about your opinion but 10 minutes for half a item 1036 (not even half of item 1052 ) is pretty fucking shit.

They could knock it down to every 8 minutes but I'd say reduce the AP and AD bonuses it gives by 20% to offset the 20% reduced time it takes to get the bonuses.

Something like -

8 min: +6 AP or +4 AD (was 8 AP 5 AD) 16 min: +18 AP or +11 AD (was 24 AP 14 AD) 24 min: +39 AP or +22 AD (was 48 AP 29 AD) 32 min: +64 AP or +39 AD (was 80 AP 48 AD) 40 min: +96 AP or +58 AD (was 120 AP 72 AD) 48 min: +134 AP or +87 AD (was 168 AP 101 AD)

Nyarlathοtep3 votes

wait WAIT WAIT HOLD ON A SECOND. Did i just read someone complaining about comet and SCORCH?! Are you kidding me?! Comet dmg at early levels IS LESS THAN AN AA. Not only that BUT ITS 100% dodgeable. And dont let me start on scorch. Pathetic dmg, no scaling, cd AND delay. God people these days complain with everything.

Jefftiffy2 votes

{quoted}

wait WAIT WAIT HOLD ON A SECOND. Did i just read someone complaining about comet and SCORCH?! Are you kidding me?! Comet dmg at early levels IS LESS THAN AN AA. Not only that BUT ITS 100% dodgeable. And dont let me start on scorch. Pathetic dmg, no scaling, cd AND delay. God people these days complain with everything.

Uh when you do 80-90 damage on an ability and add in a free 30 from scorch and then a possible 30 from comet (which isn't as slow as you make it seem). That's about 140-150 damage at level 1 from just a single ability. Add in an AA and thats around 210-220 damage from 2 attacks. Between all champs the health pool at level 1 is as low as 450 and as high as 600. So it can either 50% someone or do 1/3 their hp at level 1 not including ignite or the true damage mastery if they have CC on their first ability. Comet isn't really that bad either. You have to be movement impaired by at least 10% slow to not be able dodge it meaning that you have to predict them hitting you to dodge it in the first place and MR is lower than in the past.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

wat? 140 dmg? Are you for real now? I mean yeah, xerath with a q at level 1, scorch and comet will deal 145 dmg, if the target has 0 mr. Which is not possible. All champs more or less have 30 mr ( lvl 1 ) which means that magic dmg deals 30% less dmg. Which means that the dmg of that 145 is 101. So yeah fk calculations amirite?

Also in order for the spell to deal that much dmg at lvl 1 it has to be also dodgable. Like xerath's. The mastery that deals bonus true dmg also applies AFTER the target is cc ( for example, if a target is hitted by the e of xerath he wont take true dmg, he will take from the following spells for a small duration. Which means that this cant happen in lvl 1 ) And NO i can assure you that you can evade the comet even with 10% slow even with no movement speed buffs. And yeah it was about damn time to lower a bit mr ( through the removal of runes ) because 1 mr item, and magic dmg becomes irrelevant.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

wat? 140 dmg? Are you for real now? I mean yeah, xerath with a q at level 1, scorch and comet will deal 145 dmg, if the target has 0 mr. Which is not possible. All champs more or less have 30 mr ( lvl 1 ) which means that magic dmg deals 30% less dmg. Which means that the dmg of that 145 is 101. So yeah fk calculations amirite?

Also in order for the spell to deal that much dmg at lvl 1 it has to be also dodgable. Like xerath's. The mastery that deals bonus true dmg also applies AFTER the target is cc ( for example, if a target is hitted by the e of xerath he wont take true dmg, he will take from the following spells for a small duration. Which means that this cant happen in lvl 1 ) And NO i can assure you that you can evade the comet even with 10% slow even with no movement speed buffs. And yeah it was about damn time to lower a bit mr ( through the removal of runes ) because 1 mr item, and magic dmg becomes irrelevant.

I mean most champs sit at about 22 MR base from my experience and 22 MR is almost nothing.

Blinding Dart TARGET RANGE: 680 COST: 70 / 75 / 80 / 85 / 90 MANA COOLDOWN: 8 Blinding Dart ACTIVE: Teemo shoots a dart at the target enemy, dealing them magic damage and Blind icon blinding them for a short duration. MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+ 80% AP) BLIND DURATION: 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 / 2.25 / 2.5

And you get AP to start. Your argument automatically is invalid. Teemo with 20 AP = 96 damage on Q.

Nyarlathοtep

I mean most champs sit at about 22 MR base from my experience and 22 MR is almost nothing.

Nope the lowest base mr is 27 for sejuani. The biggest base mr is 33.5 ( mega gnar ). So yeah bullshit.

Blinding Dart TARGET RANGE: 680 COST: 70 / 75 / 80 / 85 / 90 MANA COOLDOWN: 8 Blinding Dart ACTIVE: Teemo shoots a dart at the target enemy, dealing them magic damage and Blind icon blinding them for a short duration. MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+ 80% AP) BLIND DURATION: 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 / 2.25 / 2.5

Oh ffs man give him a break. He is teemo his only job is to make his enemy miserable. He cant really do much else until he gets reworked.

Hammermancer2 votes

Yeah because damage, mobility, and tank creep weren't already a thing

what this did was exacerbate the situation on all of these until it became healthy again by allowing them to coexist

by opening more avenues to be abused, your playstyle is now naturally countered by various other playstyles

the game can not be locked into a full tank meta again at this rate, or a full assassin meta

And quite franky a super fast adc is probably the best way to deal with the issue of adcs needing a defensive stat since they should get 1shot but they shouldn't be helpless

Jefftiffy5 votes

[{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3NLken2v,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-13T07:17:59.255+0000)

Yeah because damage, mobility, and tank creep weren't already a thing

what this did was exacerbate the situation on all of these until it became healthy again by allowing them to coexist

by opening more avenues to be abused, your playstyle is now naturally countered by various other playstyles

the game can not be locked into a full tank meta again at this rate, or a full assassin meta

And quite franky a super fast adc is probably the best way to deal with the issue of adcs needing a defensive stat since they should get 1shot but they shouldn't be helpless

Right now the only thing I see right now is everyone being erased in 1s. Doesn't matter if its the ADC doing damage to a tank or a full built assassin jumping on a carry.

I never thought I would see a more cancer meta than the lethality meta but this one is literally just everyone has fuck tons of damage. The tank runes for the most part are complete garbage and the damage ones are insane. Utility ones are all situational and actually feel like a choice if you choose to take them (aka handicapping yourself most of the time).

Hammermancer2 votes

sooo everyone is op?

sounds like its balanced then

Jefftiffy6 votes

[{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3NLken2v,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-13T07:44:31.227+0000)

sooo everyone is op?

sounds like its balanced then

Except tanks and bruisers. So basically league entered a state where whoever has the most damage wins now. Fuck peeling the ADC they are already dead fucking do more damage than them and built minimal defense to make you live the extra .25s because building full defense is only going to buy you .75s longer. You can't say that is good for the health of the game. And most of the boards agrees from what I can tell about the damage being insane. No one is complaining about utility or weaker early game or people living too long. Literally its like yeah build damage and if your kit isn't better than the enemies' you lose.

Let's put it this way. I can Q someone as Teemo and drop them to 60% hp with 1 aa added in at level 1. Tell me that isn't a problem.

Hammermancer3 votes

Idunno man, you can just outplay people

Jefftiffy4 votes

[{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3NLken2v,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-13T07:50:36.779+0000)

Idunno man, you can just outplay people

I mean let's watch you outplay a Zed running at 500+ MS at your carry from over a wall who ults to dodge all your cc, not even for the damage and blows them up in .25s then leaves and just spams laugh because literally the only thing you can do to outplay that is zhonya's mid ult animation and CC the shit out of him or rush a item 3026 and hope you live when you pop back up.

Red Wreckage6 votes

there was this guy who posted him playing morde against vayne top. level 1 fk farm, vayne just came at him 2 AA and 1 Q. morde with 40% hp left running toward bush.

AT level fking 1. no minion is even half HP.

counterplay? swap lane with adc?

Hammermancer1 votes

well morde is known to have a low skill cap

vayne is known to have a high skill cap

that guy should go play someone else with a high skill cap, go be fucking zed/riven/jayce/gp

you know... real champions

not morde

Red Wreckage2 votes

really? thats your argument?

/

Hammermancer1 votes

Morde isn't a champion he's a statue

notice me Sin pi1 votes

[{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3NLken2v,comment-id=0000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-11-13T14:11:48.442+0000)

vayne is known to have a high skill cap

yes, she certainly has decently high skill cap. With the emphasis on CAP. aa >> aa >> Q >> aa is nowhere near high skill mechanics; it's something even a pre-lv30 would easily pull off. Hell, i can even pull it off with consistency using laptop touchpad ez pz

And also, the reason vayne is high skill champ is cuz she has zero tools to input damage outside of 550 range, which makes her vulnerable during teamfights. There's none of that risk when laning 1vs1 against a morde as well.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

Morde was downed to slightly over 50% health.

And he started Dark seal and full damage runes x)

He was basically a AP melee ,,,mage.

I did math on that and i found that nearly any ranged champ in the game could have done the same or more damage doing the same thing.

Mages would have to throw in a spell though, which is pretty easy to hit because Morde's base movespeed is literally among the lowest in the entire game.

He craps on some melee matchups but he get's run over by ranged, twice so if running full damage.

Elkington VI1 votes

{quoted}

Except tanks and bruisers. So basically league entered a state where whoever has the most damage wins now. Fuck peeling the ADC they are already dead fucking do more damage than them and built minimal defense to make you live the extra .25s because building full defense is only going to buy you .75s longer. You can't say that is good for the health of the game. And most of the boards agrees from what I can tell about the damage being insane. No one is complaining about utility or weaker early game or people living too long. Literally its like yeah build damage and if your kit isn't better than the enemies' you lose.

Let's put it this way. I can Q someone as Teemo and drop them to 60% hp with 1 aa added in at level 1. Tell me that isn't a problem.

Maokai seems to be doing alright, but most are struggling I agree. Bruisers in particular are in a weird spot. There isn't a rune path that really accomodates them. The resolve path isn't enough compared to what the others offer, which would be okay if bruisers didn't have to spec into defense.

AirKingNeo1 votes

That's a lie if I ever heard one.

Sammystorm1 votes

Eh preseason is always super high damage. Every pre season has been like this.

Trias0001 votes

It's season 8 now. What changed?

Sammystorm1 votes

Quite a bit actually. AS the year goes on damage will decrease. We see this trend every year. Although that is serious commitment to go 4 months back.

Nea1041 votes

Velkoz as a "support". The end.

AirKingNeo1 votes

I literally can't build tank and live more than 1s in a 1v1 anymore. It's pretty damn sad.

That's a huge exaggeration if I ever heard it. Also tanks aren't supposed to 1v1. Shocker, tanks are only good late game now like they're supposed to be.

Jefftiffy3 votes

{quoted}

That's a huge exaggeration if I ever heard it. Also tanks aren't supposed to 1v1. Shocker, tanks are only good late game now like they're supposed to be.

1s isn't necessarily how long it takes to engage. You could just run away. And as long as items like item 3035 exist tanks can never have a late game because ADCs are the late game because they are meant to shut down the mid game spikes that tanks get. Right now tanks don't even get there. You build maybe a single defensive item because the damage ramps so fast now that you only really get gold efficiency from 1 unless you have built in tank stat modifiers like Malphite stacking armor against an all AD team because he gets extra armor and extra health to help use that armor and damage for building it and has a gap closer that counters people trying to kill him. It's almost as if you need the perfect storm to beat a damage dealer now as a tank or bruiser.

I mean sure you can live longer than 1s but at that point you have no way to escape because you are a tank. You aren't getting out at that point and unless you have already done your job which is pretty hard to do when you may have up to 2s of time to do it ignoring the enemy team having CC.

AirKingNeo1 votes

WHAT? TANKS ARE LITERALLY A LATE GAME CLASS? WHERE IS THE DELUSION THAT LAST WHISPER MAKES TANKS LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE COME FROM? HAVE YOU SEEN SEJUANI, MAOKAI, OR CHO'GATH? RAMMUS?

Jefftiffy2 votes

{quoted}

WHAT? TANKS ARE LITERALLY A LATE GAME CLASS? WHERE IS THE DELUSION THAT LAST WHISPER MAKES TANKS LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE COME FROM? HAVE YOU SEEN SEJUANI, MAOKAI, OR CHO'GATH? RAMMUS?

Now let's put them against a late game ADC. Who is going to win that 1v1. Most of the time the ADC. Tanks are in no way a late game class. They have an okay early game and excellent mid game and then fall off late game.

Just ask any pro player or any high tier player. Just because they have a late game fantasy does not make them a late game champ. It just puts them above average in their class at that point. Because tanks can't really solo kill someone all they can do is offer engage and peel. Sejuani spikes mid game and falls off late game. Maokai is all game about the same effectiveness. Cho gath just runs at you late game and blows up if he misses his Q or has no CC on his team to let him catch you.

All I can say is your inexperience and lack of maturity is really showing in your post.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Tanks aren't good 1v1, and the 1v1 would be an equal fight so it goes either way.

Yeah, you should ask any high tier player. Tanks are the best late game class for the top lane. Did you also just ignore the facts all three tanks you listed tank barely any damage?

You might be inexperienced. Here's a question, why do tanks counter Fiora?

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Tanks aren't good 1v1, and the 1v1 would be an equal fight so it goes either way.

Yeah, you should ask any high tier player. Tanks are the best late game class for the top lane. Did you also just ignore the facts all three tanks you listed tank barely any damage?

You might be inexperienced. Here's a question, why do tanks counter Fiora?

They don't. They lose to a well built Fiora.

http://www.lolcounter.com/champions/fiora

She wins against damage dealers and tanks. She loses to early game bruisers. The only reason she can do poorly against tanks if they can deny her the early game she is meant to have because they have ways to innately counter act her damage. But the second she gets ahead they fall apart hence why bruisers are higher up on the list because it relies less on her screwing up.

Fiora isn't a late game champ either. You want to compare late game champs to tanks look at Vayne Ashe Azir Yasuo Veigar Irelia Nasus Jax Kayle.Tristana KogMaw . Only one is a true tank and that's Nasus thanks to Q infinitely scaling and even then he loses 1v1 to late game adcs because they can fight him 1v1 and win. Tanks only utility in the game late game is their CC and burst in the case of Nasus and Cho gath. Plus you can't cite thornmail as it is considered one of the least efficient tank items currently thanks to item 3076 being stupid broken early on and Riot has stated they wish the address this.

Tanks will never ever come close the an ADC in the late game as long as bruisers rush item 3071 and ADC's have item 3035 and item 3153 tech choice or item 3139 scim second tech choice or item 3022 as their 3rd tech choice. There is a reason why 2 teams were just pumping ADC's full of item 3504 item 3190 item 3107 buffs for all of worlds. It's because the ADC is the late game. You either help them get their faster or deny the enemy ADC their late game. item 3504 made it so that it was much easier to do the former than the later leaving the entire game on the back of the ADC.

IDK what part of a tank running up to an ADC and getting shot for 1k+ damage about 2 times a second screams late game to you. Sure they at about 2.5k damage but their is an entire team and that's only the first 1s for the carry. Most team fights last at least 4s. Your tank is probably going to be dead before the second second unless your team nuked their carry. And if the case is the ADC isn't doing damage to the tank it's because they never built tank buster and have inherently screwed themselves over or the game is at mid game and not late game.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Ok, since you're fundamentally wrong, here's why tanks counter Fiora (outside of Bramble Vest).

Fiora sucks when people force fights. What class is best at forcing fights?

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Ok, since you're fundamentally wrong, here's why tanks counter Fiora (outside of Bramble Vest).

Fiora sucks when people force fights. What class is best at forcing fights?

She is literally a duelist. She isn't going to lose a 1v1 to anything but another duelist or a hard counter if she plays correctly. The way you counter Fiora is to outrange her and kite her down or bait her parry. If she never wastes her parry she will win every fight thanks to her parry either being able to prevent you from CCing her, stunning you, or lowering your AS making you trade worse. She trades favorably and leaves. All she has to do to counter your in is predict you and back off until you wasted your CDs. I mean it's like saying that Gnar is countered by her because she can go in. I never lose to Fiora as Gnar. Why? Because I know she wants to go in. So I just sit back poke her down little by little and win lane in the long run.

The only way you beat her as most other champs is to either outplay her or go in much harder than she can. And there are very few that can and most of them are manaless hence they counter her just by not having the long term gate in lane. Her biggest counters are Garen Renekton Gnar Shen. All manaless champions who excel at winning extended trades and lanes thanks to only having a CD limiter.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Garen isn't a counter to Fiora because Garen loses all matchups. Gnar counters every top laner so you can't really list him (like Jayce). Renekton is a lane bully so no shit, but I'm unsure about Shen.

Also, not sure matchups has anything to do with disputing the point:

Fiora sucks when people force fights. What class is best at forcing fights?

Trias0001 votes

If Riot isn't intending to do anything about this stupid snowball meta (I guess it's pointless at this point to ask e.g. for tower buffs so that we can at least play safe and not get deleted under tower if we're behind), then they should at least:

  1. Let us surrender at any point in the game, without the need of a unanimous vote.
  2. Let us just leave the game whenever we want.

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