To this day, the best time I had playing League was during the cinderhulk era

PapaGreg21·May 4, 2018·84 votes·17,209 views

Outside of 3-4 champs that abused the item , the games felt very fair. A couple of small nerfs to Sion, Sejuani and Gragas would have fixed all of the negatives of this season easily. Tanks were allowed to frontline for teams and fights were extended enough that it felt fair and fun. Now people are arguing at their supports and junglers because nobody wants to pick a tank in champ select and the amount of high mobility high damage champions are making it so that you're better off filling your team with a damage dealer with cc over a tank with cc.

Sometimes I think that Riot wants tanks not to be important because they seem to make so many more skins for ADCs than frontliners. Maybe I'm nuts though.

84 Comments

TokogawarufMay 4, 201861 votes

I miss the Time when Botlane didn´t get overrun by 5 People at min 7, before you even get Ult

Wolfalisk318May 4, 201851 votes

I miss the times when mobility was factored into a new Champion's power budget instead of just getting it as a baseline to compete with other un-budgeted mobile Champions released previously.

ColteMay 4, 201827 votes

i miss the old days when people don't get one comboed at lv.1

SwiftKitten88May 5, 20182 votes

{quoted}

i miss the old days when people don't get one comboed at lv.1

i miss the days when "one shot" meant using your entire kit and blowing every single cooldown to kill someone from half hp...

good time

remember this thing called "trading" unless its a tank vs tank fight u dont get that anymore...

Dead flag bluesMay 4, 201820 votes

No no no no no no no no no no

You're talking about the item 3751 item 3025 combo literally bought by everyone ? Even Ekko Akali ?

Slythrin UmbreonMay 4, 201836 votes

that was probably more a problem with Ekko. He continued to do it for awhile after Cinderhulk meta ended.

BattalionMay 4, 20188 votes

This.

yoshi2790May 5, 20182 votes

more a problem with ekko?

Akali Was the one that started this? Ekko Fizz Katarina all did this.

It was a problem with Ap assasins + Tank items. Ekko was just the most broken one.

Slythrin UmbreonMay 7, 20181 votes

Well... It's not specifically a problem with AP Assassins, but yeah I think they would have this problem more often. The problem all of those champions and many others went through was that if your base damages alone pretty much one shot people, you may as well build full tank and one shot people. Especially if your kit also has utility or if tank items also give some base damage.

Teemo LeeSin and Swain when he was overbuffed. To a lesser extent, Anivia kind of has this problem, but she's more counterbalanced then the others and doesn't actually one shot people without some ap so people don't mind tank Anivia builds as much.

saltranMay 4, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dead flag blues,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3N9xIakk,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-05-04T17:34:53.637+0000)

No no no no no no no no no no

You're talking about the combo literally bought by everyone ? Even ?

Tankassasin flashbacks

Feel ApathyMay 4, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Tankassasin flashbacks

item 3111 item 3068 item 3065 item 3025 item 3026 item 3075

Poppy Ekko Fizz Gragas

KeevalroyMay 5, 201811 votes

That was season 6, and most of the issues were from the bullshit keystone update. The op was referring to season 5 with the NON-broken masteries.

LordGeovanniMay 5, 20181 votes

Ekko was intended as a bruiser (to have that option) What made this a problem to me was that Ekko has free damage on passive and w and a free slow and speed up on passive back then when his q already had a slow It would have been okay on ekko if he lost his w passive and His Passive lost the speed boost. He Also had all of his spells doing too much base damage. I dont mind ekko as a bruise but ap bruiser ekko should have had these items as his main items item 3040 item 3151 item 3116 item 3115 item 3089 item 3060 (ap armor version) these should have been his damage items but his spells base damage his passive no cooldown and his w passive and had a perma slow when coupled with his q even without w active made him not need those.

3TWarriorMay 5, 20182 votes

I thought he was intended as an assassin/fighter hybrid

it's been too long since the classes made sense, but from what I remember, bruisers were tougher than fighters if I remember right?

SpyKayleMay 5, 20181 votes

Yup. Think Darius, Garen, Trundle, Nasus.

3TWarriorMay 5, 20181 votes

I was thinking more along the lines of JarvanIV LeeSin (though he doubles as an assassin), Leona (not sure if right as her damage would put her in line with them but she was a tank with high burst damage, so, class definitions in league have always been shaky), Renekton RekSai (lower damage but much more tanky) Olaf

etc

where fighters are more like: MasterYi Aatrox Gangplank (though he is now more bruiser than fighter) , etc , where auto attacks were a large part of their damage but they could build durable and benefitted from hybrid items

it's a kind of weird system looking back at it, but at least it worked

come to think of it, it seems that the difference between bruisers and fighters were two things: durability and burst damage compared to sustained damage

to add to your thoughts, juggernaut seems to better define the champs you picked as it became a fairly distinct identity of "don't get in their range without proper setup" or "raid boss" status XD

SH AzykanMay 5, 20181 votes

Leona top or jungle 100% is a bruiser, support she can only really be called a tank.

LordGeovanniMay 5, 20181 votes

Fighter bruiser the words are interchangeable for the overall class now. It was fighter before season 6 now they call the overall class bruiser.

SleepcomaMay 5, 20181 votes

still more healthy than the current meta

BattalionMay 4, 201818 votes

I miss the old Spirit items for jungle. That was fun times.

Edit: Look at this thing of balanced beauty: https://i.gyazo.com/c41d11d32027e3041a1be42cb7070b7b.png

nelogisMay 5, 20181 votes

That was truly the best time in league IMO.

BattalionMay 5, 20183 votes

That item alone, Spirit Stone, gave League the largest jungle diversity of any season. Not that Season 3 was my favourite season, but that kind of jungle sustain (to match the increased jungle difficulty) meant that many, many champions could be taken into the jungle.

MimrMay 5, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I miss the old Spirit items for jungle. That was fun times.

Edit: Look at this thing of balanced beauty: https://i.gyazo.com/c41d11d32027e3041a1be42cb7070b7b.png

Yeah, back in S3 where looking at an offensive item in the shop as a jungler was a bannable offense... no thanks.

BattalionMay 5, 20182 votes

That's definitely not true. You can look up "Season 3 Jungle Builds League of Legends" and check for the links with dates in the year of 2013. I see a lot of Master Yi & Udyr guides, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say that when I see those champions being suggested to build 2 damage items first after the Spirit Stone, that that's a sign that you're probably exaggerated profusely.

MimrMay 5, 20182 votes

{quoted}

That's definitely not true. You can look up "Season 3 Jungle Builds League of Legends" and check for the links with dates in the year of 2013. I see a lot of Master Yi & Udyr guides, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say that when I see those champions being suggested to build 2 damage items first after the Spirit Stone, that that's a sign that you're probably exaggerated profusely.

Udyr was pure Phoenix tank if you took your games seriously. Yi is an exception to a rule. And yes, of course I'm exaggerating, but jungle was very tank and support focused because S3 jungle income compared to other roles was the lowest ever in League history, and defensive/ utility items have historically always been more gold-efficient than offensive ones. It was the era of tank Rengar and Ancient Golem/ Sunfire Cape Nocturne.

I very well remember a comment at a Xin Zhao guide in S3 stating "what is the value of offensive items on Xin?". Today we would all go LMAO, back then it sparked a serious debate because the primary ranked build on Xin was Madreds Razor/ Locket/ Runic Bulwark despite Xin being obviously designed as an offensive AD champ. Partly because of the ridiculous utility offered by the Locket/ Bulwark combo, partly because even champions like Xin had too little income to afford offensive itemization.

z63XnLCMwXMay 4, 201817 votes

I miss the times when we had Nemesis draft.

ModCaptainMårvelousMay 5, 20181 votes

The time that proved there are no "terrible" champs. Just terrible comps. (5 ADC vs. a team of "shit" champs and the latter usually won.)

FilDaFunkMay 4, 201811 votes

I play a lot of ARAM games, but something I noticed was that games with tanks were quite a bit more fun to play. Not so much where there is an imbalance, but the fights are MUCH more interactive, they're not over in a split second. Thsi is very similar to mages - the game requires careful trades and focus on objectives.

When the game is overloaded with ADCs, however, they do so much damage and it is so difficult to get close. In all such games (2 or 3 ADCs per team) minions are cleared, one team happens to do it faster, so sits on enemy tower. Cannot engage, not a fun game.

TheSingularityMay 5, 201811 votes

It was the perfect time of "we need X to counter Y"

One team has fighter, tank, mage, vayne, brand So we pick fighter, diver, assassin, caitlyn, sona.

Now it's just pick X X X X X And we'll pick X X X X X smash them into each other and see what happens

Papa AndreiMay 4, 20187 votes

My favorite was patch 5.18, right when i joined the game. It was so much fun

SleepcomaMay 5, 20182 votes

I started playing around 5.10 and boy, do I miss those days.

remakoroMay 4, 20186 votes

What? What kind of madman would force his support to pick a tank if he can pick enchanter?

LordGeovanniMay 5, 20181 votes

Its usually the mage mid or assassin jungle/ top that calls for it.

Athenes LuluMay 4, 20184 votes

That's when playing ADCs actually feel like shit because things like Naut can press E, deal 800 damage with only tank items, and gives them a slow and painful death. It's just as bad if you're a mage trying to do something.

Okay, fine, that's an overexaggeration, but I guess this is why Boards loved Cinderhulk era so much.

RocketRelmMay 4, 20183 votes

Honestly, a lot of people complained when cinder hulk era was "out" on boards too, at least some of the popularity is a lot of people thinking about things and going "I didn't realize how good we had it".

CronofugeMay 4, 20184 votes

Tbh I liked Enchantment: Juggernaut better, just like the old prerework Spirit of the Ancient Golem. I'm fine with tanks that aren't easily stopped by cc but %hp increase has been a balancing nightmare. Not as much of a nightmare as %health true damage, whoever thought that was a good idea wasn't thinking straight.

AyzevMay 4, 20183 votes

{quoted}

they seem to make so many more skins for ADCs than frontliners

They're just more popular. There's more people that enjoy slaughtering with tons of damage than people who like to just hold others in place and be tanky.

SpecterVonBarenMay 5, 20182 votes

I think it's more that most ADC's are very human looking.

JPLangleyMay 4, 20182 votes

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Yets4240May 4, 20185 votes

What does season 1-2 meta have to do with Cinderhulk era over three years later?

ThefrostyvikingMay 4, 20182 votes

OP you´ll get downvoted to oblivion by all the non tank melee, assassins and skirmishers in particular, as well as non hypercarry marksmen if you keep this up x)

Only tanks and hypercarry marksmen ever like tank metas.

LordGeovanniMay 5, 20182 votes

Season 5 cinderkulk meta was great for bruiser Taric Yorick Jax JarvanIV Nautilus ( yes bruiser i was building him wits end ap bruiser for about a year top then) Olaf Pantheon Rengar Trundle Skarner ( pre Rework) Warwick Skirmishers only work when tank items are good because they share those same tank items and beat tanks because they go lifesteal.

ThefrostyvikingMay 5, 20182 votes

I know there were some exceptions like Jarvan and trundle because of their kits still working well against tanks.

But pre rework Yorick? Pre rework rengar?

Pantheon? Jax? Vi?

None of these guys ever liked to deal with a enemy team consisting of 4 tanks and a long range hypercarry marksman.

It was the same as it was just at the end of season 7, pros were seriously picking 3 dedicated tanks, 1 AP tank and a AD hypercarry and just standing ontop of eachother because no one did any damage if the marksmen died.

It was by far one of the most stale and slow metas we ever had..........not saying that the excessively fast ones like the assassin metas are any good either but that was just beyond painfully boring, a real snoozeparty where everyone just sat around waiting for either marksman to finally powerspike enough to do any damage against enemy tanks so they could finally get moving.

I am fairly sure that was some of the quickest nerfs to an item and its users we ever had aside from the juggernaut fiasco.

LordGeovanniMay 5, 20181 votes

Current pantheon assassin build didnt exist back then Panteon was just as much a diver and fighter as Vi as his assassin build didnt yet exist. Jax thrives in drawn out fights and beats tanks by virtue of hybrid scaling (not that you ever saw 3 dedicated tanks because burisers were so good top lane.) and idk how you consider Jarvan IV more anti tank than Vi. Yes Yorick I am one of the few players who claim to have great success on Old yorick even in his nerfed state same with old Galio building mostly ap. Even though Cinderhulk killed his ghouls fast He had a really good time with item 3042 item 3508 in its lifesteal state and trinity force. He dueled evenly bruisers who knew how to counter him and beat anything slower that wanted to come top lane Be it tanks or assassins.

ThefrostyvikingMay 5, 20182 votes

What are you on about? O_O

Pantheon back then when jungling usually went stuff like warrior-tiamant-black cleaver- last whisper-maw and GA.

He basically stacked AD and armor pen and assassinated squishies and low armor targets with that and his high base damage.

That was the most common pantheon i know of from season 5.

Jax likes drawn out fights.....when he deals any damage and isnt CC'ed to kingdom come.

Tanks were much......much tankier back then, anyone without armor pen wouldnt even scratch a season 5 tank,,,,,,remember old maokai with his circle of damage reduction for all his friends inside?

Low CD stun spam was common back then too in tank comps.

Jarvan's passive lets him quickly deal damage to tanks and cleaver was always core on him, trying to stunlock him didnt really stop his ulti from trapping several enemies which guarantees effectiveness......and if memory serves his base damage back then was still so high that a glass cannon ADC would die from a full rotation+1-2 autos all the way until lategame.

Unlike Vi who needs 3 hits to even start reducing armor, and can only briefly CC one target which still needs someone to kill it if she doesnt bring enough damage, and Vi back then didnt build glass cannon.

Drawn out fights? Only actual tanks survived in those because getting stunned 6 times in a row while being shot at by the marksman didnt kill them.

Even the marksmen were prone to instant death because the tanks still had high base damage back then.

I still remember stuff like a full tank malphite ulting past my team to get ontop of me and killing with just basic abilties and a auto attack before anyone could even react.

Then i got resistances and died to basic combo+4-5 autos.

Was a miserable time to be squishy.

And Yorick had to be reworked exactly because of what you described, he was either complete and utter garbage or he was nigh impossible to do anything about x)

Not exactly a paragon of balance there.

I still remember it, cinderhulk meta was probably the third most generally hated one, only trumped by the assassin meta and the ardent one......and ardent meta was largely a tank one as well.

No meta in which tanks were strong has ever been good for diversity..,,,,,,hells even the pro players tried to use semi tanks instead of enhancers under the ardent meta.....ones that could proc the censer like taric and alistar.

LordGeovanniMay 5, 20182 votes

Tanks had less hard cc in season 5 in a 3 tank team there would be one -two stuns/ knock ups and the majority of cc Tanks had was slows. Stuns were on long cooldown spells See Sejuani ult Malphite ult Maokai q didnt have the knock up Taric E had maybe 18 second cooldown. Only really leona had a low cooldown hard cc spell. What you are describing is how tanks survive now with Shit gold value on their items and all of their 6 items will scale worse 1-1 with any adc or mage item while can only spare 1 slot of magic resist maybe mr boots for a second slot and 4 slots for armor items.

LordGeovanniMay 5, 20181 votes

I dont think sejuani was op during that time Tanks are supposed to deal damage and they sacrifice range for it.

KeevalroyMay 5, 20183 votes

If you didn't think Sej was overpowered in S5, then you either didn't play then, or never had to play against her since she, Gragas, and for a time, Sion were banned nearly every single game. Sej with Cinder and Gromp buff alone was op as hell.

LordGeovanniMay 5, 20181 votes

Never saw sej banned much enemy team almost always played her and id played her myself a bit top. Still dont think she was op she has very short range ad clear windows which most people just kited or lifestealed around. I loved and love facing sion because of the slow as hell q they loaded all of his damage onto people either have to q early or dont hit me with it.

KeevalroyMay 5, 20182 votes

That surprises me. I distinctly remember her at the top of the ban list for months. The only time she wasn't was toward the end of the season.