It's weird how nobody complains about Ravenous Hydra......

dunder kill·Jun 29, 2017·76 votes·5,546 views

Yet currently are or have been huge balancing problems in the past.

being melee-only is purely coincidental. Surely.

96 Comments

Anonymous AliasJun 29, 201713 votes

No one complains about ravenous hydra because everyone is crying about how op life steal is on ADC. Because an ADC is marksman, they cannot build ravenous hydra.

OtterlyLostJun 29, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anonymous Alias,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3KjwKQ49,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-06-29T10:43:45.094+0000)

No one complains about ravenous hydra because everyone is crying about how op life steal is on ADC. Because an ADC is marksman, they cannot build ravenous hydra.

Again, no. No one complains about it because no one buys it. Not even the champions that can use it will buy it. Riven can use it but doesn't buy it because she can get death's dance and any bruisers that want a Tiamat Item are going to go Titanic instead of Ravenous because it actually gives damage and tankiness. I haven't see a Ravenous built on anyone since Titanic came out; Titanic and Death's Dance have officially murdered the item.

As for life steal, there are plenty of Melee champions who abuse the ever loving shit out of lifesteal right now. Riven, Illaoi, Fiora? They all abuse it to hell and back and are a lot more toxic to me.

The EcdysiastJun 29, 20174 votes

To be fair, you're over exaggerating how far back the usefulness of Titanic over Ravenous extends. It only started replacing Ravenous because you can heal from Titanic's cleave with Dance's healing ('cause you know, they totally didn't remove all spell vamp items to prevent certain casters from healing or anything).

EuthenaasiaJun 29, 20172 votes

Potentially the biggest double standard i've ever seen in a game

Big LincolnJun 29, 201710 votes

because ravenous blows ass

the majority of bruisers will get more mileage out of Titanic now that they're forced to go into tank-heavy builds just to avoid being chewed up in teamfights, and making them less DPS and more burst goes hand in hand with titanic's much burstier active

only one i really bother with it is garen

AptestJun 29, 20177 votes

I am complaining. Tiamat is a bad item and should be removed with both of it's derivatives. They are BOTH unhealthy for the game because they provide fast pushing to champions that should not have this quality, and remove "being able to push" from the list of qualities you can look for in a top laner.

Variks the LoyalJun 29, 201745 votes

Sinking gold into an item that allows you to waveclear is a trade off and opens options more than it limits them. Moreover, the cleave effect does consume some of the item's power budget, which is why you rarely see Ravenous Hydra built anymore on anyone but Trundle, Fiora, and Riven (And the later two favor DD nowadays mostly anyway).

Tiamat and it's later versions are honestly some of the best designed, most balanced weapons in the game. They provide options for your build with clear strengths and trade offs, and can be used in unique ways with certain champions.

darkmatchwaldoJun 29, 20175 votes

Wait i've just been building both item 3074 and item 3812 on riven am i doing it wrong?

HyperiönJun 29, 20171 votes

No, but there are better items to replace Rave Hide.

SH AzykanJun 30, 20171 votes

no there really isnt, the tiamat active is core on riven in her combos...

HyperiönJun 30, 20171 votes

If you look at a lot top riven mains, in both NA and Korean servers, it is either Lethality, or Cleaver into deaths dance, GA, LDR and Merc Scimmy.

Ravehide isn't built very much on her anymore unless she is really ahead.

SH AzykanJun 30, 20171 votes

really because the top 2 builds on Op.GG still get ravenous and lolalytics says tiamat or ravenous are ended on over 60% of the time in higher elo and the top korean riven player still builds tiamat

HyperiönJul 3, 20171 votes

Do you watch any of the Challenger Riven mains?

It is hardly ever built anymore unless really ahead.

EedatJun 29, 20173 votes

dont forget MonkeyKing

Variks the LoyalJun 29, 20171 votes

I thought he preferred Titanic?

EedatJun 29, 20172 votes

Tank MonkeyKing is trash. You need a lot of flat AD

It Hertz When IPJun 29, 20171 votes

Isn't it still a build option on Mundo? Dude stacks some serious health and lacks waveclear, seems like a perfect fit for him?

Over InnsmouthJun 29, 20172 votes

Sunfire and W is all the waveclear you need.

BoilTheOilJun 30, 20171 votes

sunfire sucks rn tho

Over InnsmouthJun 30, 20171 votes

I mean, they did buff the minion damage to 200% so it is technically better for waveclear. That being said, Titanic is pretty good on Mundo anyway, so it's not a bad option.

Tails9016Jun 30, 20171 votes

Wait I always thought item 3748 was better on trundle, with the hp scaling on the damage

Variks the LoyalJun 30, 20172 votes

The Life Steal synergizes much more with his ult and W; Life Steal scales better with resistances than a lot of health items, which is why full tank Renekton with Ravenous Hydra has been really good before. With Trundle, the Life Steal goes great with the resistances from ult and bonus AD from Q, as well as the increased healing from W.

Also, Ravenous has arguably better waveclear, since it isn't directional, and Trundle has extremely, extremely bad waveclear.

RewtJun 29, 20175 votes

Rav was broken as fuck a very long time ago. then they nerfed it.

dunder killJun 29, 201720 votes

Was it now? Let me check this patch by patch history of Ravenous Hydra. Nope.

Let me compare its stats when it was first released to its stats now:

Release (Preseason 3):

+75 attack damage +15 health regen per 5 seconds +10% life steal UNIQUE PASSIVE – CLEAVE: Your attacks deal up to 60% of your attack damage to units around your target - decaying down to 20% near the edge. UNIQUE ACTIVE – CRESCENT: Deals up to 100% of your attack damage to units around you - decaying down to 60% near the edge - 10 second cooldown.

and now?

Current:

+80 attack damage +100% base health regeneration +12% life steal UNIQUE – CLEAVE: Basic attacks deal (20% to 60% AD) physical damage to units around your target – (20% AD near the edge) (350 units radius). UNIQUE – CRESCENT: Deals (60% to 100% AD) physical damage to units around you – (60% AD near the edge) (400 units radius) (10 second cooldown).

ParoeJun 29, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Was it now? Let me check this patch by patch history of Ravenous Hydra. Nope.

Let me compare its stats when it was first released to its stats now:

and now?

When it was hilariously broken the passive stacked. Having 5 tiamats meant you had an AoE 100%AD - 600%AD ratio on your basic attacks.

AwesomeGuyDjJun 29, 20172 votes

{quoted}

When it was hilariously broken the passive stacked. Having 5 tiamats meant you had an AoE 100%AD - 600%AD ratio on your basic attacks.

Twitch ult

ParoeJun 29, 201712 votes

{quoted}

Twitch ult

... I cant tell if youve missed the point or not. Tiamat - and by that hydra - used to be hilariously broken due to its passive stacking. Its passive stacking (and fiora 1v5ing with her ult with only 5 tiamats) was what got the whole "unique passive" thing started.

Kosm1KJun 29, 20172 votes

Twitch ult used to let him proc the aoe with the entirety of his ult

dunder killJun 29, 201713 votes

You couldn't stack Hydras...... You could only stack Tiamats.....

item 3074 didnt even exist until preaseason 3.

item 3077 stacking was an issue in Season 1

What are you talking about? Stacking Hydras was NEVER a thing

MelledoneusJun 29, 20172 votes

I remember full bloodthirster build Zed.

Fun times.

RyrynounetJun 29, 20171 votes

1K ad ? 8D

BarcidJun 30, 20171 votes

I still prefer 6 RoA's on Singed with MS runes.

Andrey0345Jun 30, 20171 votes

Why not 6 tiamats?

Spice POWAHJun 30, 20171 votes

Sivir W

Need Gold 4 TentJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Twitch ult

Gangplank stacking tiamats with wriggles, that was funny

CowseedJun 29, 20171 votes

You can't count this because that wasn't a Hydra problem. That was just an item ability problem. Remember Evelynn + item 3068 ?

RyrynounetJun 29, 20174 votes

False !! Evelynn + item 3068

dunder killJun 29, 20174 votes

Nope. item 3074 was always a unique passive. What you're refering to was stacking item 3077 which was not unique

HaIlMonitorJun 29, 20175 votes

I really hope they just nerf Draven instead of DD... but I like that item on AD casters... like its supposed to be used on...

FilDaFunkJun 29, 20174 votes

I can only see people building item 3748

rtbf221651412Jun 29, 20174 votes

I remember a time when fighters could build attack speed without sacrificing hp and armor; and they were ranged.

Oh wait.

Akali is SO HOTJun 29, 20173 votes

Old Rageblade with the AoE is kinda what it would be like if ranged champions could use it to.

aka broken

Sire HippingtonJun 29, 20172 votes

Well, Lifesteal is only strong if you can consitently use AAs, which ranged champs can and melee usually can't, easy as that.

Funnny side note, even for most melees, Titanic is nearly always prefered as the 'tanky-hydra' just offers a much stronger burst-active than the 'damage-hydra' and the same damage per AA past 3500 hp, and you would need to deal 3333 post mitigation AA-damage to lifesteal the 400 hp that titanic offers, which few melees can do outside of lane.

DarkRitualJun 30, 20171 votes

Ravenous is more of the duelist Hydra. They need to last long enough in a fight to keep their ability rotations firing off. Riven Fiora Irelia being prime examples. Titanic gives better waveclear on top of the health (while also scaling with health from other items).

SkorchJun 29, 20172 votes

I mean i see a few item 3748 complaints, and thats because IMO its probably just the better item.

Also are you saying no ADCs should be able to build Lifesteal, because thats just kinda... no.

TotalJerkJun 30, 20171 votes

The problem with Titanic is that it's good on basically every Melee champion.

SkorchJun 30, 20171 votes

Yeah tiamat being taken on like shaco and WW to boost clear time really annoys me for some reason.

TotalJerkJul 3, 20171 votes

Tiamat benefits BOTH DPS and burst champions. The passive gives dps classes waveclear, and the active gives burst champions even more burst.

Agent CorgiJun 29, 20171 votes

I've seen footage of back when Ravenous Hydra was not a "Melee-only" item. Makes me glad Champions like this guy Twitch don't have full access to it's damage. Pre-rework Fiora was also a thing back then as well, let's not forget that.