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Senna is on the Wiki, and my thoughts....

Illabethe··2 votes·2,298 views

The wiki has been updated for Senna now..... sort of.

Other than what people already know, there's two things I think are important that weren't previously known.

#Absolution ON-TARGET COOLDOWN: 4

ABSOLUTION: Senna's basic attacks and Piercing Darkness Piercing Darkness on enemy champions apply Mist for X seconds. Additionally, Damage rating takedowns to nearby enemy Champion icon champions, large Minion icon minions and Monster icon monsters by allied champions spawn Wraiths after X-seconds near the killed unit for a few seconds.

Senna's next basic attack or Piercing Darkness Piercing Darkness on Misted champions or Wraiths collects their mist. The same target cannot be collected more than once for a set duration.

Collecting from a Wraith destroys it. Collecting from a Misted champions deals 1% − 16% (based on level) of target's current health Attack damage bonus physical damage to them.

RELIC CANNON: Senna doesn't gain Attack damage icon attack damage per level (growth) and her critical strikes deal only (30% + Infinity Edge item 16.25%) AD bonus physical damage, but her basic attacks deal 20% AD bonus physical damage and grant her 10 / 15 / 20% of the target's movement speed as Movement speed icon bonus movement speed for X seconds.

Additionally, Spellthief's Edge item-line grants adaptive force instead of Ability power icon ability power.

Senna gains Attack damage icon 1 bonus attack damage per Mist collected, every 20 Mists gains Range icon 25 bonus range and 15% critical chance, and 35% of the excess critical chance is converted to life steal.

Summary: Senna has a nerf hammer to her outright damage RIGHT OUT THE DOOR!

  1. She cannot gain AD growth. It has to come from items or being aggressive.
  2. Her Critical Strikes only do 130% Damage (146.25% with IE) Damage (Huge rebuff on critting)
  3. Her Double tapping a champion will do a chunk of current HP damage.
  4. Crit Chance Surpassing 100% Will be converted into Life Steal at a 35% Rate!

In other words, suppose Senna has item 3031 item 3046 item 3508 and 80 Stacks of Mist. The result is 700 Attack Range, 130% Crit Chance, which converts into 100% and 10% Life Steal.

(I think this is one of those areas Riot May tweak once she gets going, because that's 3 items).

#However, when you consider her outright damage nerf:

On 80 stacks she'd have 63+ 80 AD + 150 from items = 63 + 230 AD.

Basic Attack: 293 + (.2293) = 351 Damage Crit with IE: 293 + (.4625293) = 428.5125.

Add in the missing HP Health and you get her damage on double taps.

Not impressive at all as an ADC, who most with the same items are doing 700+ damage.

#HOWEVER, she is one of the rare few who can hit 100% Crit, and that extra 10% Life steal would make her a much higher sustain adc.

Piercing Darkness TARGET RANGE: SENNA'S Range icon ATTACK RANGECOST: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 MANACOOLDOWN: 15

ACTIVE: Senna fires an spectral bolt in a fixed X-units line from her in the target Champion icon champion's, Turret icon turret's or ward's direction, Heal power healing allies hit, and dealing damage to non-turret, non-ward enemies hit.

DAMAGE: 50 / 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 (+ 50% bonus AD) HEALING: 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 (+ 25% AP) (+ 40% bonus AD) #Targeting a turret, or if the ability collects one or more Absolution souls or Damage rating kills an enemy champion, Heal power heals Senna for a reduced amount.

REDUCED HEALING: X / X / X / X / X (+ X% AP) Senna basic attacks reduce Piercing Darkness' cooldown by 1 seconds.

The highlighted part is a serious gate to Senna's early game viability. Q only heals Senna IF she meets one of these criteria. if she uses it and has not absorbed souls, and isn't near her turret, she cannot heal herself!

#Last Embrace

ACTIVE: Senna throws a globule of Black Mist in the target direction that sticks onto the first enemy hit.

After an X-seconds delay or when the target dies, the Black Mist spreads out of the target, dealing damage and Root icon rooting the target and enemies for a few seconds.

DAMAGE: X / X / X / X / X (+ X% AP)

It's a ROOT folks. Nothing more. Aoe is small enough that people should be able to escape being secondarily bound by it.

#Curse of the Black Mist EFFECT RADIUS: X

ACTIVE: Senna dissolves into a cloud of mist, gaining Movement speed icon bonus movement speed and Ambush 2 camouflaging herself for a few seconds. Allied champions in the mist are also Ambush 2 camouflaged.

Allied champions who emerge from the mist appear as Sweeper Drone icon obscured wraiths to enemies X-units away from them for a few seconds. Performing a basic attack or casting an ability breaks the effect. This cannot happen more than once per cast.

Here's my points I want people to absorb about this ability:

In other words, they are only camouflaged as long as they do nothing!

Furthermore,

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/champion-preview/senna-abilities

(They've updated the English Abilities on this site)

-If Senna she temporarily becomes targettable (like Akali) -Senna is always right in the middle. -The E does NOT make them immune to damage/CC/etc. -If you come into proximity with Camouflaged champions, they will be revealed!

In other words, Engaging on the Cloud will REVEAL TARGETS, because that counts as them APPROACHING YOU.

So Please; don't freak out before you encounter it.

#Dawning Shadow TARGET RANGE: GLOBALCAST TIME: X

ACTIVE: Senna fires a beam of dim spectral light in the target direction.

Senna and allied champions hit are Hybrid resistances icon shielded for a few seconds, increased for allies hit by the central beam.

SHIELD:» X / X / X / X / X (+ X% AP) Enemies hit by the central beam take damage.

DAMAGE: X / X / X / X / X (+ X% AD)

Different scaling on each aspect. She will not have a strong barrier if she builds AD; She will not have a Strong Ult if she doesn't build AD. #Center champs get barriered MORE

My opinion: The Passive does the opposite to Senna of what a similar Passive does to Jhin. While Jhin escalates on his own, and is granted insane sums of AD for relatively free, Senna has to earn hers, and even then, its effective strength is 1/5 of what the stated value is (20% Bonus damage, extremely poor synergy with Crit rate)

It'd almost be better to build her Crit-Less, if not for the overcapping feature giving Life Steal, for more reliably high AD/AP, and focusing on building up her Mist count for Crit.

I'm willing to bet the strongest builds here will be item 3026 item 3031 item 3508 item 3146 item 3094 or something to this effect.

18 Comments

TheReaperLoL2 votes

look again Okay, you're right about crit not being that great on her, but that doesn't mean she won't be a strong carry with the right build. although her crit dmg is nerfed, that doesn't change the fact that she can get 50%+ crit chance with one IE and stacking decently. Let me predict for you what's going to be the most broken build on Senna (unless she's nerfed before release)

Muramana is gonna the first item you go for, once fully stacked she'll give her the mana she needs so she won't run out in 2 Qs and also gives her bonus damage on her Q/R. After Muramana, you go for full lethality Items (Although I'm unsure how good these items are on PBE right now) Assuming riot stays on the current track demanding you only get two lethality items for the passive bonuses, I would personally get Dusk+the new item that gives a ton of attack speed (lethality Item choice can change depending on the player). The last two items I would get are Infinity Edge and Essence Reaver ( with these two items you should have near 100% crit ) although she doesn't benefit from crit damage as much as other champs, she still deals bonus damage nonetheless.

This champ relies heavily on its abilities to deal damage, hence stacking AD/lethality will make her abilities deal good damage with her crit lethality autos.

The keystone I would take is Hail of Blades(not a must I think, but just personal preference).

Now here's a standard all in combo with this build. you go in with you E, auto to proc dusk and crit, Q then auto, W then auto (W scales well with physical damage and has really high base damage so landing it is crucial) and once they're rooted finish them off with R (the R has excellent damage 500 base at max rank with a 100% scaling of your TOTAL AD not BONUS AD) have fun oneshotting people :D

Now, this entire build was just talking about her damage, if we factor in the fact that her Q cooldown is lowered with autoing, the fact the it heals for a crazy amount and scales with AD, the fact that it has stupid range, the fact that her W not only deals a ton of damage for some reason, the fact that it can AoE root for 2.25 sec (that's a long time in league btw, and don't say other champs can easily walk out of it because that's not always gonna be an option depending on the fight/part of the map they're in, and let's not forget that the root will proc instantly if the W kills the target :D), the fact that her E is literally Pyke W, Akali W and Neeko W in one that effects your entire team (if you've played against just one of these abilities you'd know how annoying they are. the camo is removed if they walk too close to you, but the fact that you can't tell which champion is which until THEY'RE LITERALLY ON YOU IS HUGE IN TEAMFIGHTS), and finally the fact that her R is a lux GOD RAY with no travel time that deals a ton of dmg and also shields your allies if they're just a lane width away from it, and IT'S COMPLETELY GLOBAL.

If you can't realize how ridiculously overtuned this champ is, I genuinely don't know what to tell you...

I haven't spoked much about her passive because I feel that part of her kit can be fairly balanced if they either nerf the amount of stats you get from stacking, or nerf how many stacks you can get, right now It is way too high.

Illabethe1 votes

  1. Q has no single target function, so it won't proc a Muramana. The only ability that does is her W, which only the initial part would proc.

  2. Her Auto attack speed is HEAVILY gated. Although they are bad at describing it, she has a .5 second delay between auto attacks that you CANNOT REDUCE. Most champions have a .2-.3 Second Delay so this is SIGNIFICANT.

  3. Lethality is an interesting take. Given she can gain Crit, Lethality + Crit is potentially broken.

Here's my problem with your assumptions:

I've actually played Senna on PBE. Here's what I found:

  1. In a controlled environment, it takes Senna about 17 minutes to hit 20 Mist souls, 22 minutes to hit 40, .... etc, and about 31 minutes to hit 80. IN A CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT, aka when players aren't making her life hell.

  2. This is what people are scared about: her massive range gain from stacks. Although her rate of fire is slow and cannot keep up with other adcs at all, she's insane at killing RUNNERS...... ONCE STACKED. In a perfect environment, 80-100 stacks results in a range where Senna can outrange turrets, and Q can extend to hit what seems like 2 adcs away. In other words, you can't peel.

Still.... this is controlled environment scaling. So far on the PBE, the most I have seen is 48 stacks, which is insignificant.

  1. Q doesn't heal insane amounts unless she's built AP, and the self healing gets reduced.

  2. Neeko and Morg root is 3 seconds. This is max level Zyra root.

  3. I've actually hit and failed to kill a 20% Lucian with a fully built Lucian with her Ult. It's 500 base at tier 3, with a small bit of scaling. The primary benefit is it adds 150% of Mist souls to the barrier. The 100% AD is misleading because it doesn't crit, and her AD numbers stay small.

In real play: I have yet to see a Senna be more impactful to a PBE game than an Ekko or Pyke. Ekko and Pyke are slaughtering games so fast Senna is irrelevant.

TheReaperLoL2 votes

Okay, I don't know if you've noticed, but her Q applies on hit effects. So it will proc Muramana and Dusk (could be a pbe bug tho), but even if it didn't. you're not getting Muramana for the on-hit passive, you're getting for the mana and bonus AD.

I don't really know how it takes you 17 mns to get 20 stacks, when I've seen people literally hit 100 stacks before 30 mns in game that was going moderately well for them (you might wanna work on your stacking)

I don't get what you mean by calling PBE a controlled environment. It's a game and it's no different from live servers, there are good players and there are bad ones.

Yes the Q doesn't heal for an insane amount, but when you consider the fact that she can also deal damage with it at the same time while hitting multiple targets (teammates and enemies) you can't deny how impactful this ability can be if used properly.

Yes Morg and Neeko Q root for 3 sec, I never said that was okay. Those abilities are just as annoying and cancerous, Morg is one of the best supports in the game because of her insane CC and Neeko is absolute hell to lane against because her E can go through minions with extended range... but you're right, my problem with the W isn't that it can root for that long. It's the fact that is has stupid range (like all of her abilities) and it's AoE, not to mention it has really good damage, so executing people with it to get the instant root isn't that far fetched.

"a bit of small scaling" ? are you serious ? do you genuinely think that a 100% ratio of TOTAL AD is small ? her AD numbers DO NOT by any means stay small if you, once again STACK WELL. It's very easy to get around 400+ AD on her with any decent build. 500 base + 400 AD, how much damage is that ? and what do you even mean by "the 100% AD is misleading because it doesn't crit" ??????????????????????? it's a scaling, there's nothing misleading about it, you build damage then you deal it, why would it crit ?

Posui Gart2 votes

they are only camouflaged as long as they do nothing!

Just like every other camouflage in the game

If Senna she temporarily becomes targettable (like Akali)

Just like every other camouflage in game, except that they usually just end without reapplying

Senna is always right in the middle.

But her allies can be anywhere else

The E does NOT make them immune to damage/CC/etc.

Just like every other camouflage in the game

If you come into proximity with Camouflaged champions, they will be revealed!

Just like every other camouflage in the game This shit is op. It can't save her from an assassin, sure, but its a team-wide camouflage. And, knowing how camouflage works now(breaking at something like 400 range), you have to stand in almost melee range just to dispel that shit

Passive for absolutely 0 reason gives her MS. Yeah sure we can't have an immobile adc or support in the game anymore, I get it, but she already has her E that gives her MS.

Q, W and R are fine. It looks like R gives almost no time to dodge, but i dont think it's going to hit for Lux ult levels of damage.

Her AAs look like lasers. Anyone knows if Yasuo can block them with his W?

Illabethe1 votes

No Camouflage is OP. I can kill a Kha Xiz mid stealth. Twitch's is only powerful because of his R, otherwise it's not that strong.

Akali's reapplies.

Twitch's resets.

And,.... so use melee champs? or Aoe burst? not like the game has any of that......

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/VqrQZsEj-just-got-to-play-versus-a-senna-who-knew-what-she-was-doing-not-impressed

Posui Gart2 votes

No Camouflage is OP

Really? Eve can W-Q from outside reveal range Twitch can AA from outside reveal range(without even ulting) Rengar can jump from outside reveal range For a stealth type that is supposed to be an "out-of combat" invisibility, thats quite op

so use melee champs?

Great, a champion that counters everyone who somehow don't want to be in melee range. Xin ult does that too, but its an ult, and he is still visible and can be hit with cc

Aoe burst?

There are almost no spells with as huge AOE. And it's not like she can't dodge them, she has +ms on that shit. And usually 1 AOE spell cant oneshot people I agree that this spell can be balanced eventually, but why the fuck every new champion has an uncounterable safety in his kit?

Illabethe1 votes

Being scared of Evelynn's WQ just means you're a bad player still thinking about the most basic use of her kit. REAL Evelynn's 90% of the time don't even use W except as an anti-escape tool that slows the target down. E is her most powerful ability, and the reason she can almost 1 shot, doesn't need W or Q to do it.

Also, Evelynn is Stealth, not Camouflage (different mechanics)

Twitch is only powerful because of his R's target penetration and increased range. Realistically, he can do his job even without the Camouflage. That's a balance issue, not Camouflage.

Rengar is one of the easiest champs in game to counter, unless fed (If you give him 5 trophies level 3, yeah. Your game is going to suck). Armor and then CC = caged Rengar.

I've destroyed Senna with Nami. I'm just telling you how to beat a Camouflage she maybe gets to use correctly TWICE in the course of a game.

Amumu AurelionSol Annie Cassiopeia Chogath Diana Heimerdinger Fiddlesticks Katarina Kennen Neeko Morgana Malphite Lux Riven Shaco Vladimir Ziggs Zilean Zyra

Aoe burst anyone?

Senna is losing hard in PBE almost 80% of matches. Part of that is people not knowing how to play her. Part of that is the fact Ekko is absolutely dominating before Senna can even exist. Right now, Ekko is the #1 most broken thing on PBE.

Posui Gart2 votes

Being scared of Evelynn's WQ just means you're a bad player still thinking about the most basic use of her kit. REAL Evelynn's 90% of the time don't even use W except as an anti-escape tool that slows the target down. E is her most powerful ability, and the reason she can almost 1 shot, doesn't need W or Q to do it.

Can she use W without being revealed? Yes. Can she use her Q from outside of reveal range? Yes. Thats all I said. Nothing about Eve being op or W being stronger than E.

Also, Evelynn is Stealth, not Camouflage (different mechanics)

There are 2 types of stealth: camouflage(revealed by nearby champions and control wards) and invisibility(not revealed by champions and control wards). Eve's passive is camouflage

Twitch is only powerful because of his R's target penetration and increased range. Realistically, he can do his job even without the Camouflage. That's a balance issue, not Camouflage.

Yeah and we also have lvl2 jungle Twitch cheese because he can walk in his aa range without being noticed

Rengar is one of the easiest champs in game to counter, unless fed (If you give him 5 trophies level 3, yeah. Your game is going to suck). Armor and then CC = caged Rengar.

Again, im not talking about champions being op or not, just their stealth mechanics. Rengar can attack from further than reveal range, which is what I think is op because there is nothing they can do to him before he jumps or runs away

I've destroyed Senna with Nami

So if a champion lost at least 1 game, all his abilities are fine and balanced?

Aoe burst anyone?

I didn't know Cass can aoe burst. Or Shaco. Or Zilean. Most of these champions have either targeted spells, not-wide skillshots that they cant just throw at the whole cloud, or rely on dashing in first.

Senna is losing hard in PBE almost 80% of matches

Thats how it should be for any new champion. Especially one that is made to scale into late. And the one whose main safety tool is countered by mobile enemies. Still, there is literally 0 reason why she has to have mass stealth tool.

p3tm4ster1 votes

She's beyond broken, I just watched frogger play her on PBE her ult goes off so fast that tryn didn't even have time to react before she killed him. She has disgusting range and damage. She's my vote for next permaban.

Aredethe3 votes

I'm dling PBE atm. We'll see. P.S. Frogger probably 100% maximized her Passive stacking.

Also, PBE is full of both pros and nubs. Tryn may have been a nub.

p3tm4ster1 votes

That the thing he wasn't even playing her aggressively, he was just testing her out for the first time ever and she's just so busted that be basically melted tryn.

Aredethe2 votes

I can hardly tell in my first game that had her in it.

Result: Pyke Top and Ekko Mid dominated game so hard, that Senna on both sides was extremely muted in capacity. Had a MF mid vs Ekko, Yasuo vs Pyke. Both fed, as did bot.

Senna on my team ended 2/9/2. I had a better score as Morg jung. Then servers went down. Fun.

P.S. Not a single person spoke english.

nm10101 votes

Wiki is incorrect, her crit is not 130%, it is -30%. As in she goes from 200% damage on a crit like a normal champion to 170% damage. Her IE crit damage should be 187.5%.

Illabethe2 votes

Wiki is actually correct. The difference is the wording. The passive describes a Crit's additional damage while you're seeing it as a 35% Reduction from 200% (Crit's normal double)

Ie.... 30% Additional Crit damage = 130% of base damage OR 200% - .35*200% = 130%

Her crit damage is nowhere near 187.5%.

Even with 677 AD, I only crit for 970-1080. That's not 187.5%

nm10102 votes

Whoops, its 35% reduced crit damage not 30%. Either way, it is definitely not a wording difference. One is a multiplicative effect, the other is a flat reduction. These are significantly different.

Your/the wikis's proposed crit model:

30% (bonus crit damage) x 1.25 (IE modifier) = 137.5% crit damage

677 x 1.375 = 930.875 damage before any armor

The actual crit model:

65% (bonus crit damage) x 1.25 (IE modifier) = 181.5% crit damage

677 x 1.815 = 1228.755 x roughly 25 armor = ~983 damage

Illabethe2 votes

One is phrasing in terms of bonus damage from crits. The other is phrasing in terms of overall. The math is an identity property of algebra between what you are arguing, and what I am.

100%X + 30% = 200%X - 35%(200%X)

P.S. On 677 AD with 58 Lethality she barely manages to hit 1138 crits on minions.

nm10102 votes

Well, they done fucked something up because I just went and grabbed numbers from the PBE. She does ~135% base and ~158% with IE which match neither formula. My numbers were off because I forgot about her free on hit damage which was pushing her damage per shot up significantly. The wiki is probably supposed to be the correct numbers though.

Illabethe2 votes

Part of it is Senna seems to get an unnoted temporary AD bonus when she absorbs a ghoul. Late game with 120 stacks, I've seen some of the temp spikes be like 37 AD, before reverting to normal. It's a mess of code.

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