I'm really questioning the balance philosophy on the new duo

Jefftiffy··3 votes·817 views

So there's Xayah who is pretty insane for an ADC. She has everything an ADC wants except mobility. She has high damage, large amounts of AoE with high scaling, one of the best anti dive abilities on an ADC in the game, and a CC that acts as a zoning tool and hurts on top of it. She does have a somewhat weak early game (she is prone to being dove before 6). But she doesn't really have the big of a weakness early on to make up for her amazing spike at 6 and her pretty insane scaling.

Then there's Rakan who has stupid high AP ratios on his heal making him no matter what going to be AP (I guess it forces him to be squishy even though he is supposed to go in). And the sad thing is if he isn't on the same team as Xayah he is pretty useless. I mean his ult makes for some nice combos and his mobility is nice, but besides his insane healing and ult he is nothing without the Xayah interactions.

The interactions should be there. The problem is that they are too strong. Regardless of the fact that one is strong and the other is pretty weak is besides the point. The interactions should be synergistic but not overbearing. The enhanced recall has its ups and downs and I am personally ok with how it works. How much range Rakan gets on his dash needs to be lowered. Being increased is okay, but I feel that it should be like 100-200 units longer not the almost 400 it is right now.

Then there's Xayah who gets an extra 20% damage on her W that also applies to Rakan. No just no. You can't add damage to her kit like that. An extra 20% scaling is not okay just because of another pick especially on a nonskill shot ability. Her damage should be something like: If Rakan has recently (like in the last 2-4s) damaged or CC'd an enemy add 20% extra damage on those targets while this is active.

I mean don't get me wrong I don't really see that big of a problem on either of them on their own, except for some glaring cases like the way Rakan is being told to go AP yet he is a support who is supposed to be healing and peeling for the ADC. And the fact that Xayah doesn't really seem to be flawed enough early game to make up for her strong late game (which seems to be the focus of her kit as it pretty much invalidates assassins and has a lot of team fight utility). I will admit that they both seem to burn mana like crazy when played aggressive, which is a good thing, but I feel like it isn't enough to fix their problems.

12 Comments

Master Vemira4 votes

is this a troll post? rakan is absolutely busted with or without xayah

AbiwonKenabi2 votes

I agree, I was about to say the same. His Grand Entrance is like a less skilled Heatbutt/Pulverize but add to that his E...I can E to a frontline ally, Grand Entrance, ult their entire team, then E2 out after my spells are on CD. So much CC and mobility. Shielding and healing on top of that. I've been messing around with Windspeakers, saved so many people after dashing like a screen away. With a Lucian even. He reminds me of Lee Sin, except needs a teammate nearby to be effective.

Jefftiffy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Master Vemira,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3IV6ZLRf,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-04-20T04:38:14.115+0000)

is this a troll post? rakan is absolutely busted with or without xayah

I mean he really isn't. Compared to most supports he mostly dashes around and doesn't do much if you dodge is heals. But when he gets them off he is insane. The only thing annoying about him to me is the free shield and the healing. One of which he has to work for to get. The other is just handed to him. His ult is kind of meh and highly situational. He is encouraged to build squishy, so a coordinated team or lane could easily pop or CC him during it causing him to basically become a dead weight in a team fight. Rakan for me quite honestly is fairly weak and mostly stomps in solo or poor coordinated play. I mean the only thing other than that that is kind of weird is that they made him a hybrid of like 4 champs.

whathemath2 votes

I think the forced synergies are stupid to begin with. It's like riot was afraid that another champ would pair better with rakan or xayah and the two wouldn't be played together. I think most players would agree that it's healthier and more interesting if riot allows synergies between champs to be discovered by the playerbase. In other words, synergy is better when it arises organically, rather than riot forcing their ideas about what champs should work well together.

Misticaltom1 votes

It doesn't remove the organic chemistry of other champions.

It's designed chemistry for two champions.

And we got a in lore couple. That's worth many a riot point.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

It doesn't remove the organic chemistry of other champions.

It's designed chemistry for two champions.

And we got a in lore couple. That's worth many a riot point.

If you wanted interactions between champs you make an actual duo champ. Where both are being controlled by one person, not by 2 people. Because then each one has to be strong individually and together, so it leads to a paradox. You can't have them being strong alone because they are broken when together, but if you leave them strong together they are weak apart.

Aptest1 votes

I think what you are saying is correct in theory and in broad strokes.

Its ok to have some small number of exemptions though, as long as they are exemptions and not the design rule. If riot wants to explore the artistic place of a double character with a specific synergy, why should they not?

The problem IMHO is different. Let's say Xayah and Rakan are individually balanced. Then together they get an extra bit of power and become freelo. Otherwise they are balanced together, and individually one of them or both of them is junk.

There are a couple of possible problems. For instance if you pick the less potent of the champions than your ally is pushed into pick the more potent of the duo to make up for your blunder with synergy. Alternatively if you pick the more potent, you will want to badger your ally into picking the less potent because some of the power is given to you so you get to be even more awesome.

SexyBabyJesusZ1 votes

riots probably going to do what they do to newer champs to her by nerfing the fuck out of her

MysterQ2 votes

After sales slow down.

SEKAI1 votes

Yeah I raised my eyebrows when I watched the interaction bit on their champ spotlight.

Like, Rakan's dash more or less doubled the range when dashing to Xayah, which is pretty questionable but I was more or less rolling my eyes and "okay fine"ed it.

Then I watched Xayah's feather proc with Rakan I just laughed "it's gonna be so hard to digest yo".

I'm fine with the duo recall, that's imo definitely okay and a bit cute, but the rest? Hmm k.

Xayah would probably get nerfed pretty quickly, imo, Rakan's double distance dash maybe would take longer to get addressed, considering Riot has this thing where they often don't consider utility a part of the power budget. But idk.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Years back they had discussed why having co-opting champions would be a balance nightmare; either they're decent together and terrible apart, or decent apart and oppressive together. Not a problem in single player group games like rpgs or mmorpgs, but it will be a glaring issue in anything pvp related. Like several other well thought design philosophies, I'm not surprised they're breaking old guidelines for another buck.

Sintama1 votes

I see a serious problem with an ADC, a very high-value target, becoming momentarily invulnerable, then combo it with another ability and she can one-shot your backline.

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