Zyra can 100-0 squishes in teamfights despite being 2 item and 4 levels behind our mid laner

ForgiveColour·Jun 27, 2016·4 votes·1,125 views

But its k cus shes squishy XD

logik pls

18 Comments

Moonboy65Jun 27, 20163 votes

zyra is a burst mage, what do you expect

MiraweaveJun 27, 20166 votes

{quoted}

zyra is a burst mage, what do you expect

A burst mage with incredible amounts of CC who bursts without even having items.

Seems fair.

PopCorn Chick3nJun 27, 20161 votes

Unreliable Cc since its hard to hit and long delay but it has its reward.

Mistress ShyvanaJun 27, 20162 votes

Yeah Zyra did get overtuned. With the AOE plant spawning, passive seeds, and high DPS its pretty scary. She doesn't really fall off and if she gets ahead it feels horrible. Whether shes support or midlane shes extremely oppressive.

Here's damage charts from a game we had. http://image.prntscr.com/image/00ad1d152c2b42598cc5a85930f4fe71.png

Hayaishi2Jun 27, 20161 votes

Anivia's been doing the same since forever but it's fine because she "takes skill"

ForgiveColourJun 27, 20161 votes

except anivia does it at level 6 and zyra does it at level 3

UmioJun 27, 20161 votes

Do you know what MR is?

superweenyhutJun 27, 20161 votes

vayne : base MR 30, does not scale with level. Zyra : AP ~ 25 with only frostfang and runes. Could be a little more, but lets be conservative. Zyra Q has 55% AP ratio, her E has 50%. with NO SEEDS hit by either ability. With one rank in both, Q does 73.75 and E does 72.5 before resistance. Say she AA's one time for 53 dmg before resistance(19 Armor at level 1, but again lets be conservative and assume 30) and that applies Thunderlords for 23 more damge.

Lets look at damage calculations for 30 MR. Damage = 100/(100 + MR) So 76.92 % of the total will be taken by vayen. This is a grand total of 170.95dmg at level 2! Vaynes base health is just 558. That damage is 30.63% of her health with NO SEEDS hit by either ability. EDIT MATH

superweenyhutJun 27, 20161 votes

I think she is way overtuned as a Support. I main morgana, and even if i use my Black Shield on the carry to block her snare, her combo @ lvl 4 does over 1/3 - 1/2 health with just a frostfang. I work hard to prevent her seeds from taking hold in lane and she still does massive damage with just her abilities. She doesn't even need the seeds. The only way to counter her is to be COMPLETELY passive in lane until you can blow her up in mid game. That is assuming she doesn't land a good ult on your team. If she gets kills she feels unstoppable but if you crush her in lane she still feels so relevant.

UmioJun 27, 20161 votes

Then your team isnt counter building [which is actaully so RARE]. When you are in a DIRECT MATCHUP - your build should be taking into consideration the sustainability of your lane and where the game will go. If your adc doesn't build an MR/AD item [ merc is best for zyra because of the LS /MR/ CC debuff ] and your jungler isnt building an MR type item for bot ganks your team is being setup for failure.

ADC = ATTACK DAMAGE CARRY - Get them fed if the player is skilled enough to actually do the job. Its not just the supports job to keep the ADC alive - its also the ADCs job to keep themselves alive.

Internet builds do not outplay the match you are currently in - A lucian doesnt need to build Yomus first. . . If I am against a zyra support - as a support - I first get MR to take on the harass - which is also what the ADC should do.

The objective is to stay alive and CS during the laning phase. Once you have enough CS and can afford the damage to take her down - thats when you do it.

superweenyhutJun 27, 20161 votes

Take a look at my other comment where I talk about her early lane damage. Without the opportunity to buy the items you are talking about, after only 2 minion wavers, her damage is unreal. She does not even need to use seeds to get easy, high damage poke. So now the adc is being shoved out of lane with less then 3 waves. They can not afford any real MR, and would be at an even bigger disadvantage if they itemized that way. The carry gets to walk back to lane where zyra and her carry has been farming non-stop to get shoved right back out again.
And to say the carry should build defense early? When in high level play have you ever seen that? They exist SOLELY to do as much physical damage as possible.

UmioJun 27, 20161 votes

This just isnt true.

Ive played against Zyra many times in bot lane. And yes they can afford to build this way. I build scaling runes ONLY as a support and when I have 1 basic item [magic mantle ] it greatly stops zyras harras. And I back as soon as I can afford it 450g.

My first support item is always zzRot and I build the MR side first. This helps prevent them from pushing and gives breathing room.

your ADC should bring MR/scaling runes into the match. It really isnt that hard.

superweenyhutJun 27, 20161 votes

What about your sightstone, boots, 1st tier support upgrade? Where do you get this 2700 gold to dump in a Rot? Or at least the few hundred gold for the mr side? My point was that even with no Items, and ignoring her seed damage, lander her EQ combo two times shoves an adc out of lane. That makes buying those items very difficult if you don't play VERY passively, which is my complaint. The only counter is to wait until your team can kill her faster than she kills you. It isn't a fun mechanic, it isn't a rewarding lane to win and it is a very frustrating lane to lose.

I have played against Zrya numerous times, and as a support main, zzRot is not my first choice in any match up. Ever. Ageis into a Locket provides my whole team MR, much more valuable than the tank stats from a Rot, which do little without any health stats. The only plus is the active. I made it to gold 4 maining support, and I don't think I have ever seen a support start the Rot in ranked.

And the Scaling MR runes are fine, but they provide a good deal less than flat at level 2, which is where my damage calculations come from. So they are inferior when you are concerned with the early lane. If you can't stay in lane early, you can't get the gold for items, you will be behind!

It is always easy to say any champ isn't OP when you build solely to counter them, but if, as you say, the entire team needs to build solely to stop the damage from a single champ, that's a problem. She can be the only AP on the team and still force people to itemize very heavily in MR.

It is also easy to just say something "just isnt true", but in reality the numbers support me. The math shows how much she does early, and her Win rate also backs up claims that she is overtuned. I eagerly await the nerf hammer to bring her in line with the other supports.

Once her seeds are actually required for her damage output, she'll be in a decent place. But in the current state, they are just icing on the cake, making huge damage more huge.

UmioJun 28, 20161 votes

if you are so shoved to your tower what good is a sighstone going to do for you as a first purchase since there will only be 1 bush you need to ward
If you would like me to show you how to win this matchup I would be more than glad to go against you with you playing as zyra :)

rework trundleJun 27, 20161 votes

Anivia's been doing the same since forever but it's fine because she "takes skill"

Zyra presses one button, 10 plants spawn and one shot you There is a reason why she's the best support rn. Who needs to peel when you can os their carry?

PopCorn Chick3nJun 27, 20161 votes

How can she spawn 10 when the limit is 8 and what skill spawn that many plants lol.

TheHappyLadJun 27, 20161 votes

She can't actually 100-0 anything unless the ADC stands in one spot and doesn't use anything. Even then... 100-0 would take a couple seconds. Sure she might be OP, but that's not an excuse to make up random crap.